Please help me decide what's best for me!!!

[Jean Claude]

I'm 24, 210 lbs, 11% BF, 6'2". I've been lifting consistently and heavily for the past 6 years almost. I've seen great results during the first 3 years of lifting until a few years ago. I've sort of plateaued and although I've been varying my workouts and I eat right and sleep right, I have not seen any significant increases in my body size or strength. I've maintained the same bench for 3 years now. Can't go up any more, no matter what I do .

Healthwise, I have high blood pressure. I take medication for it so now it is regulated. I stopped taking creatine about a year ago because it was making me feel sick and giving me all kinds of cramps and pains in my body. All I take now is protein powder and L-arginine before my workouts. I was 230 while on creatine. I guess it was mostly water that I retained and once I stopped taking it, the weight came off. Oh, and last time I had my blood checked (like 6 months ago), my testosterone level was 850.

I've been steady researching starting a cycle for over a year. I've researched on and off for years though. There are so many variables to consider, it's quite petrifying trying to organize everything into something that makes sense, really. I give a lot of respect to you guys who are doing it right.

So recently I've been itching to try a cycle out, for the first time. I've read that Primobolan is a good steady gainer for those who want slow but effective gains that will last. I've heard it has very little side-effects and low androgenic effects. Of course I would still have to do a PCT after the cycle, but that's ok. I've read about the harsher test's like deca or sust and how you have to be more careful.

I guess what I'm looking for is a simple cycle for a beginner. Just to get my feet wet and not be discouraged at the end of it. I am smart, I am a hobbyist in all regards, and I research and research until I drop. I really am just looking for replies from people who've been there - done that.

About the primo, I've read that a lot of people get the fake stuff and that it's really hard to find the real stuff as it is very expensive. Maybe it has a higher cost/benefit for the short term... but guys, I'm really in it for the long run. I want steady gains, nothing massive, and most importantly - to be healthy tomorrow.

I know it's been an essay but I just had to put it this way so if anyone reads this that has the knowledge and experience and would be so kind to help me, they could do so.

Thanks guys, in advance.

[ScotchGuard02]

For a first cycle it's good to keep the cycle simple. You don't know how your body will react to the Test. I got bad acne on my first cycle. I never thought that I was going to break out, but I did. Now I know what to look out for. A long ester Testosterone E., 500mg/wk for 12 weeks, wait 21 days, PCT with Nolva and Clomid. Pretty simple and pretty effective.

[big_ron]

This thread will have everything you need to know - http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ner-cycle-info

[lovbyts]

This thread will have everything you need to know - http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ner-cycle-info

Good advice above. Best thing you can do is get educated like you have been trying. I remember still when I first joined. I also had read off and on for YEARS but quickly learned how little I actually new.

Also as stated above. Dont over think it, keep it simple and like said. Test only is best for the first cycle. Everyone reacts differently also so dont think that more is better or will give you more/faster/bigger results. With MORE test (mg) you have more chance of the side such as acne, bloat and the worst, GYNO/bitch tits. To much testosterone in your system can turn into to much estrogen and cause many problems.

Some people get very good/moderate gains from 250 mg a week. Some prefer 400 mg for the first and others start out much higher like 600mg+. I really think it 300mg - 400mg is a good starting point. It's easy enough to bump it up a little the next cycle if you dont think you got enough gains. With 300mg - 400mg and a good diet you WILL see good results and should have little or no sides unless you are one of the unlucky ones who's body just turns it into estrogen. In that case; and you should anyways, it's best to keep an AI on hand such as LiquiDex so at the first signs of any gyno (itchy nipples, small bump under the nipples) you can start using it every other day and hopefully STOP the gyno. It also helps with any bloating issues.

[Jean Claude]

Thanks for the great info guys!

Just to clarify... Test is the best for a beginner?

I was reading somewhere that test will give you the most side effects?

I wish someone knew about the primobolan and boldanone/equipoise . I really want to try something with the least side effects. They have a chart on this website that shows the amount of side effects each type of cycle will give you, and these two seem to have the least sides.

Also, remember I already have a decently high test level (850) already, so I would not want to damage that in the long run.


Anyways, I'm glad there are people looking out and willing to help on here, thanks again!

[Jean Claude]

Bump...

Also... if anyone ever looks at this again lol... I had a question on my mind. I've been wondering if I inject lets say 5 days in a row, then go off 5 days in a row. Lets say I inject 300 mgs during this time... Will this affect my own natural testosterone production? Can it harm it irreversibly? I was thinking of doing short bursts of test followed by periods of rest and then back on. I don't want to shut down my natural production during this time as I already have a high natural production. Also, how long and how much test would you have to take to lower your natural production? I know it's probably different for every person.

[Brewster]

Please research my friend.
The more you know the more you'll grow...

your idea is retarded and will mess you up

[Jean Claude]

Ok, that's what I'm here for. I need people to tell me when I'm wrong or right. If everything came down to research, then there wouldn't be a need for forums. I am part of a audio engineering forum and I help newcomers whenever I can. I know how it goes.

I'm sure there's people willing to provide some useful help other than tell me to research. I have done plenty of research but I want to hear from people, not from some post from 2 years ago.

[D7M]

Ok, that's what I'm here for. I need people to tell me when I'm wrong or right. If everything came down to research, then there wouldn't be a need for forums. I am part of a audio engineering forum and I help newcomers whenever I can. I know how it goes.

I'm sure there's people willing to provide some useful help other than tell me to research. I have done plenty of research but I want to hear from people, not from some post from 2 years ago.

If you're familiar with forums, you know sometimes its just easier to reference a thread than to type everything out on a daily basis.

But, we're here to help:

What else do you want to know?

[Brewster]

Ok, that's what I'm here for. I need people to tell me when I'm wrong or right. If everything came down to research, then there wouldn't be a need for forums. I am part of a audio engineering forum and I help newcomers whenever I can. I know how it goes.

I'm sure there's people willing to provide some useful help other than tell me to research. I have done plenty of research but I want to hear from people, not from some post from 2 years ago.

Didn't mean to sound like a dick... but at the end of the day you are taking advice from people that you don't even know. If you do some research on your own then you will be able to see through the bullshit and know who you should be listening to.

The cycle you proposed with 5 days on 5 days off... I have never seen this before, so if you researched a bit then you would know why not to do it.

If D7M were to give you a cycle... Do you think it would be wise to just go start doing it. NO!! b/c you need to know more then just what to put in your body. You need to know why your using it and what to expect gains/sides etc. This isn't audio engineering... ITS YOUR BODY

[Knockout_Power]

For a first cycle it's good to keep the cycle simple. You don't know how your body will react to the Test. I got bad acne on my first cycle. I never thought that I was going to break out, but I did. Now I know what to look out for. A long ester Testosterone E., 500mg/wk for 12 weeks, wait 21 days, PCT with Nolva and Clomid. Pretty simple and pretty effective.

ok, I think one of the vet's posted a thread about junior members giving advice without knowing fully what they are saying... should he have taken your advice, he would have been a full week late on PCT. Test E PCT start time = 14 days after last injection.

Not trying to slam you Scotch gaurd, just be careful when advising cycles.

OP, he is right about the test cycle... simple simple simple... Test @ 4-500/wk for 10-12 weeks. Have a good AI on hand and proper PCT

when you have a couple cycles under your belt, then you can try other compounds. Work with test first. It should be the base of every cycle and the best way to get your feet wet into cycling

-KP

[Jean Claude]

Ok, cool, so test e is my best bet as a beginner. Check.

Thanks Brewster, Knockout, D7m!

As for another question. If one day I decide I never want to run another cycle again (hypothetically, although I know I'll love it and it will be hard not to), can I ever expect my natural test levels to go back to normal, before I ever ran a cycle? Again, my levels were 850 last time I checked a few months ago.

BTW Brewster, you're right... this is my body and not some audio engineering dilemma. I was stupid for even saying that. My bad.

[Jean Claude]

lol great... so much for even making an account on here.

[junkiescumbag]

PCT will bring them back to what they were before the cycle (usually)

[chopperguy58]

Just get yourself educated. There is a lot of information on this forum, so much so that it seems intimidating. Stick with this plan and then decide with the help of this forum is a cycle is something for you. I have been reading non stop since joining this forum. Still have lots to learn as well. Best of Luck.

[ReX357]

The way you're talking I don't think you really "researched 'til you droppped".

First you seem unaware of what PCT is and what it does. If you 'researched for a year', that's one of the first things that you should of read. The acronym is very frequent in steroid litterature and anybody who spends more than a week looking at steroid information will end up reading about it. We wouldn't expect you to know everything about it, but the basics. Like the purpose of it for instance. Knowing the purpose of a PCT would answer one of your questions.

Next, you mention something about the "harsher test's like deca and sust". Really? You researched for a year and you figure "deca" is a type of test? (I'm pretty sure he was refering to nandrolone decanoate, I'm fully aware that test does come attached to a decanoate esther, just not as a single compound, but it is in blends). Knowing the different between esthers and compounds is an important part of steroid use as it will dictate the effects as well as the administration schedule of the steroids at hand.

With that in mind, I'm gonna revisit a previous statement of yours that says "I eat right".

Before anybody here advises you any further on steroid use, would you mind posting your diet with your BMR, your TDEE, as well as protein/carb/fat/cal count and overall macros (Or even better, meal specific macros if you can provide them)?

If you have done your 'research', you are aware that a diet will produce more results than any steroids in the world. It is also the main component of keeping steroid generated gains after a cycle. You should be able to provide us with said diet so we can maybe advice you on how to break through your plateau without any potentially blood pressure altering drugs.

[Brewster]

The way you're talking I don't think you really "researched 'til you droppped".
.

That shit just made me laugh

[Jean Claude]

Rex - your post was the most intelligently written post so far.

My diet consists of a high protein diet with no fried foods, healthy soups, no junk food, no juices, no soft drinks, plenty of fruits and vegetables from Costco's, whole grain bread (the expensive one that's real whole grain not wheat bread), etc. I cheat sometimes and eat something I shouldn't, but who doesn't every once in a while?

I work out 4 times a week. One day chest, one day arms, one day shoulders, one day back. I haven't worked out legs for a while, I need to though. I usually do like 4 sets on each exercise, with about 8-10 exercise types per body part. I'm in the gym no longer than 1.5 hours usually. I work out at night, because that is when I feel I have the most energy and power to do my lifts. I go up in weight during my exercises and on my last set I do a drop set. For example, when doing dumbell curls standing up:

Set 1: 40 lbs x 15 reps on each arm.
Set 2: 50 lbs x 10 reps on each arm.
Set 3: 65 lbs x 4 reps on each arm.
Set 4: 45 lbs x 12 reps on each arm.

I have been consistently lifting since I started with one 2 month break. Lifting since 18. I really started when I was 15, but didn't know what I was doing then. I consider 18 to be the age when I really started researching and learning from other guys in the gym.

The reason I wanted to try a cycle was because after trying numerous GNC supplements with no real avail, I am sick of spending money on things that don't work. I tried this "testosterone booster " made by Gaspari, Novedex XT. It didn't do anything really... other than make me really tired during the day. I have tried tribulus terrestris and I take it on occasion but I don't know if actually does anything. I take protein within 15 minutes of finishing my workouts. 1.5 scoops of Syntha6. It works, I like it. Sleep around 8-9 hours a night. In bed by 11. Drink rarely... maybe once a month. I don't mind even giving that one time a month up cause I honestly don't like going out that much, rather be in the gym lifting some weights. You could say I'm a gym rat in that respect.

Well.. I don't know what else to say. That's pretty much it I suppose. I broke up with my girl and I have a lot more time on my hands now. More time for the gym, more time for myself... more time to think. If I wanted to do a cycle, now would be a good time. I feel good working out, it's my drug of choice. I want to enhance my experience.

[ReX357]

Let me show you something. This is a diet:



Every meal is outlined with quantities. Same thing. Every day.

That:

My diet consists of a high protein diet with no fried foods, healthy soups, no junk food, no juices, no soft drinks, plenty of fruits and vegetables from Costco's, whole grain bread (the expensive one that's real whole grain not wheat bread), etc. I cheat sometimes and eat something I shouldn't, but who doesn't every once in a while?

That's just your country's health association guidelines to healthy eating.

See the reason I'm reluctant to advising you on a cycle here is not because of your stats. It is first and foremost because of your high blood pressure issues. Second it's because of your lack of knowledge. Steroids are actual medication prescribed by doctors. They are not intented for recreational use the way we use them here. They have real side effects that are fairly easy to deal with if you are a healthy person. However, in your case, you are actually at risk of severe side effects with your blood pressure issues.

Blood pressure can stem from a bad diet. Healthy soups? Soups are full of sodium. I have yet to see a bodybuilder use 'soups' in an actual diet.

We are comfortable advising people in this forum if they meet a certain set of criteria. This is for your protection first and then ours. With your current health condition, it would be much better to see if you can realize your goals without steroids. If you plateau'd, upping your calorie intake will make you most likely break through your plateau.

This is your health you are playing with. You are not a toy. Introducing exogenous hormones in your body has consequences and in your case, I'm worried the con's outweight the pro's.

Go visit the diet forum and get yourself a diet. That's the best advice you will ever receive.

Second one, is if you don't want to listen to the bro's on here, please talk to your doctor about it. If you end up wanting to go ahead anyways, I hope it will be under a doctors supervision.

[Jean Claude]

Yes, I know, it sucks, I have high blood pressure. It's under control now. I keep it around 120/72 now... It used to be around 140/80. I started taking medication for it and I'm doing alright now.

My mom is an endocrinologist and I still live at home cause I'm finishing school so I eat whatever she cooks. She's Romanian by decent so all the food she cooks tends to be healthy. She is conscious of my problem because she deals with people like me everyday, so everything that is food in our house is low in sodium (even the soups). And as you can imagine, foods are also low in carbs and fats. I get yelled at when I eat more than one slice of grain bread with a meal haha... I eat unbreaded tilapia cooked in the oven probably 3 times a week. A lot of our food is oven cooked. We have learned to cook without frying, and I think it's a good thing. Mom is a health freak!

Well, I guess you're right. I should talk to my doctor about it and see what he says. BTW, how much of a blood pressure increase can one expect, on average?

[ReX357]

It is compound dependent. Boldenone (eq) is horrible. The increase in rbc thickens the blood quite a bit and affects bp adversely.

[ReX357]

And eating whatever mom cooks is not enough. You need to actually provide your body with an extra amount of clean calories over your total daily energy expenditure (tdee) to see growth and strenght increases. You need to count your calories and eat even if you're not hungry.

[ReX357]

Even without accounting for your bp issues you are not ready to cycle. You need to get a grasp on basic muscle building theory like diet before you do anything else.

[Jean Claude]

Yes, I know all about diet, but thanks for informing me anyways. I know most of the guys on here that want to start a cycle come from hamburgers and fried chicken and pizza families. I'm not one of those. I eat 6 meals a day. I know all about diet. It's not like I've been living under a rock lol! It's really not that hard. You have to eat a lot to gain a lot. I know you should eat foods with less cholesterol while on a cycle cause it will raise your cholesterol. My good cholesterol is high and my bad cholesterol is low to begin with, so I'm ok in that area.

I'm already a beast in the gym and I look like I could be on some shit, but I'm not. A lot of guys ask me for spots then ask me what I'm on. They are very surprised when I tell them I'm not on anything. Now I didn't want to mention this because then you would say "well if you're already big and look good, why would you want to start a cycle?" This is a valid point, but I'm in the boat with the rest of the guys who want an edge. There's a clear difference between guys who have good genetics and guys who have good genetics + good gear. Am I wrong? I figure I would do a cycle while I'm young and see if it's right for me. Any increase in BP over a certain amount would alert me to stop what I'm doing and reconsider. I don't skip days on my BP medication. A lot of my BP issues were triggered by daily stress. I also take something for my anxiety so now my stress levels are way lower than they used to be. That helped lower my BP a lot!

Rex, you've been a great help. Hope I didn't get on your "this guy's a newb idiot" side, and I hope I can continue this conversation now and in the future. I'd love to learn more from someone who has done it. Can I ask you about your stats a little? Like if you compete/just do it to look good/how long have you done it/etc.

[kodyt21]

I have ran 500mg test e /week along with 400mg of EQ/week for 8 weeks.. Lifted heavy as hell and ate like a bear I put 35lbs on "including water" body fat% went .5% higher so I would say that it was a great cycle, but i to had high blood pressure and i had to get tested on regular basis reached as high as 230/115 at rest so with high test you need to keep an eye on your bp. Best results thus far have been 300mg test prop and 50mg winni ED, I was the strongest and hardest I have ever been. Now my cycle I am starting is just for maint Test Prop100mgEOD/VAR60-80MG ED........I am going into calorie deficit and and need to hold muscle maybe gain a few to 5 lbs, but this cycle will keep you hard and cut with minimal sides..

[Jean Claude]

I have ran 500mg test e /week along with 400mg of EQ/week for 8 weeks.. Lifted heavy as hell and ate like a bear I put 35lbs on "including water" body fat% went .5% higher so I would say that it was a great cycle, but i to had high blood pressure and i had to get tested on regular basis reached as high as 230/115 at rest so with high test you need to keep an eye on your bp. Best results thus far have been 300mg test prop and 50mg winni ED, I was the strongest and hardest I have ever been. Now my cycle I am starting is just for maint Test Prop100mgEOD/VAR60-80MG ED........I am going into calorie deficit and and need to hold muscle maybe gain a few to 5 lbs, but this cycle will keep you hard and cut with minimal sides..

Hey, is your BP usually high anyways, or do you only have high BP during a cycle? I check my BP a few times a week so I make sure it's in the normal range. I haven't done any cycles yet, so that is what I'm trying to figure out.. how much it will go up... and what is the best cycle to do for someone who has high BP already (even though it's regulated).