Planning to go on cycle in 2011, I'd love some advice

**Subotai** · 10-11-2010, 12:33 PM

Stats
5'8, 215
Training for 7 years
I compete in raw powerlifting and train as such (for those concerned about ethics, I don't plan on violating any federation's drug rules)
I've ran several PH cycles (andro 100 poppers, superdrol, halodrol 50, pheraplex) which led to severe hypogonadism and high cholesterol.
I've ran one cycle with traditional ASS, Masteron for 8 weeks to get rid of my painful gyno (it actually worked very well, PCT was 40/40/20/20 with Nolva)

Age- I am only 21. I first used drugs for football when I was either 13 or 14. I've had a lot of blood work done and my test levels consistently come back below the normal range, but no endo has been willing to help me so far. I've been off 100% now for almost 2 years and I feel because of my regrettable use at a very early age, I'm not developed properly. Regrettable, but I hope you guys respect the fact that I am being honest and I'm not just a young kid trying to get juiced up for no reason

My cycle idea
Weeks 1-16
Test E or C 400mg a week (broken up 200mg M/T)
HCG 250iu a week broken up into 2 shots (Swales ideology)
Adex at .25 EOD if problems arise. I will probably hold off on it unless I find I need it

Weeks 18-22 (timing to start PCT is a big uncertainty of mine)
Nolva at 40/40/20/20 (the Swale's articles I read suggested that this would be good, and that using both Clomid and nolva would be a mistake)

The test is dosed a little lower than I see most the time, but I figure that because this is my first proper cycle, and I am so used to miserably low levels, it should still be enough for some great gains.
HCG I saw that Swales put it between 250-500iu right out of the gate so I am hoping this would be enough. Not entirely sure on that though.

Kick-starts- I have entertained the thought of adding d-bol or drol to the cycle, but I had a friend who had a fatal stroke while on an oral heavy cycle... always been hesitant since then.

Okay guys, I am planning on going on in about 5 months, I hope that this gets torn to shreds and refined until I can get a great cycle.

Thanks in advance, I'd appreciate the thread not to get filled with 'wait until you are 24' posts, because while I am now personally (due to experience) a huge advocate of that... my endocrine timeline is screwed up enough I don't think it can apply to me anymore. I personally would love to go on HRT, but my whole of 2009-2010 so far has been attempting to do that. Despite exhaustive blood testing and consistently low results, no progress was made.

**FuzzyPeaches o.O** · 10-11-2010, 12:40 PM

Props for being honest! However, don't you think at 21 you will just be digging a deeper hole?

**Subotai** · 10-11-2010, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by FuzzyPeaches o.O

Props for being honest! However, don't you think at 21 you will just be digging a deeper hole?

I've been off since 2008, and my test levels have never been over 150ng/dl (free test was similarly extremely low)
I don't know how much deeper the whole can get man. All I know is that I was bigger/more muscular/stronger as a senior in HS than I am now as a senior in college and it is despite training hard the whole time (and adaptively, I haven't just been plugging away unable to recover all these years) and eating a surplus about 95% of the time.

I have read some studies, probably not all, but I have never seen it take longer than 2 years for the HTPA to fully recover from drug use, so I think I am going to hover around 150ng/dl for life

**Bonaparte** · 10-11-2010, 10:51 PM

Sounds like you should look into TRT, then worry about cycling on top of that once you've got your hormones sorted out.

**Subotai** · 10-12-2010, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Sounds like you should look into TRT, then worry about cycling on top of that once you've got your hormones sorted out.

As stated in my original post, I have gone to an endo since Jan of this year. I have gotten blood work several (6? maybe) times and they have always come back low, but becuase don't look the part neither my endo, nor any other I have talked to, will help me at all.

I appreciate you posting but I have already tried to HRT route, exhaustively and fruitlessly.

Guys I know how forums work, I have almost 10,000 posts on another board. I know that typically you don't read newbs questions and just give some sort of copy and paste answer, but I'd really appreciate if someone would actually look at my cycle and disect it.

**Bonaparte** · 10-12-2010, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by Subotai

As stated in my original post, I have gone to an endo since Jan of this year. I have gotten blood work several (6? maybe) times and they have always come back low, but becuase don't look the part neither my endo, nor any other I have talked to, will help me at all.

I appreciate you posting but I have already tried to HRT route, exhaustively and fruitlessly.

Guys I know how forums work, I have almost 10,000 posts on another board. I know that typically you don't read newbs questions and just give some sort of copy and paste answer, but I'd really appreciate if someone would actually look at my cycle and disect it.

Good to know. In that case, I would just go on self-administered TRT (or blast and cruise, really). HRT doesn't have to be Dr prescribed, a lot of guys do their own for a multitude of reasons (but generally just because their doc is giving them the runaround) 100-200mg of test E per week should have you at a real good range, and you would obviously monitor this through blood tests. IMO, there is no point in doing traditional cycles with PCT if your natural test levels suck anyway.

**MBMETC** · 10-12-2010, 07:58 AM

all young guys who knoe it all should read this
no offence to op but kids can learn from this

**Subotai** · 10-12-2010, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by MBMETC

all young guys who knoe it all should read this
no offence to op but kids can learn from this

Agreed. I wrote up a long post with my detailed issues in the member's intro section about a year ago (seems to have dissapeared). My health is a mess, ED issues, terrible headaches 24/7, and obviously poor gym performance. I wish my past could help more people wait to use

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Good to know. In that case, I would just go on self-administered TRT (or blast and cruise, really). HRT doesn't have to be Dr prescribed, a lot of guys do their own for a multitude of reasons (but generally just because their doc is giving them the runaround) 100-200mg of test E per week should have you at a real good range, and you would obviously monitor this through blood tests. IMO, there is no point in doing traditional cycles with PCT if your natural test levels suck anyway.

This is what I eventually expect I will do. I am just going on the sliver of hope that maybe if I have a nice run with HCG and nolva (test included for fun) that maybe just maybe it will be enough to restart my system. If it fails, then I will go on with the self-HRT. The reason I haven't done it yet is that I currently compete inj a drug tested powerlifting federation (planning to start the cycle the day after I next compete...then not lift there anymore) and I am nervous about fertility issues on HRT. Thanks a lot man

**Bonaparte** · 10-12-2010, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Subotai

This is what I eventually expect I will do. I am just going on the sliver of hope that maybe if I have a nice run with HCG and nolva (test included for fun) that maybe just maybe it will be enough to restart my system. If it fails, then I will go on with the self-HRT. The reason I haven't done it yet is that I currently compete inj a drug tested powerlifting federation (planning to start the cycle the day after I next compete...then not lift there anymore) and I am nervous about fertility issues on HRT. Thanks a lot man

Like anything else, it isn't a sure thing, but blast doses of HCG+HMG and Clomid have (temporarily) done wonders for guys who were believed sterile from years of continuous AAS use.

**bigno5** · 10-12-2010, 11:05 AM

In all honesty this would make for a good sticky. We all give the advice of not starting young but this is the WHY behind it. I appreciate your honesty here.

**Subotai** · 10-13-2010, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Like anything else, it isn't a sure thing, but blast doses of HCG+HMG and Clomid have (temporarily) done wonders for guys who were believed sterile from years of continuous AAS use.

I think this is what I'll do for when that time comes. Maybe kids around 24 years old, so I have 3 years. My only thoughts on it now are I don't want to do too much to further complicate the conception process.
I've thought about just doing HCG +Clomid to see if I can maybe kickstart myself for good (though the literature I've read would suggest any kickstarting would probably be temporary for me), but I figured why not throw some test in for fun and see if a great PCT is just what the doctor ordered

Originally Posted by bigno5;538***2

In all honesty this would make for a good sticky. We all give the advice of not starting young but this is the WHY behind it. I appreciate your honesty here.

If a mod is interested I'd like to be able to type up the first post a lot better. I have a long list of experiences and negatives that have come to me through this. I have seen a lot of horror stories, so I don't feel like mine is anything ground breaking. Most of my old highschool friends are going through the same thing.

I like the idea of 16 week cycles. I feel it would be optimal timing to allow your body to get used to the new weight it is carrying around but not so long that its just like a heavy cruising cycle. It seems like a lot of vets around these parts are more partial to 12 weekers so because of that, I would probably revise the cycle to be 12 weeks instead of 16. Any thoughts? 12 weeks of test e/c at 400mg and HCG at 500iu followed by nolva 40/40/20/20

**MBMETC** · 10-13-2010, 01:54 PM

a 12wk cycle like you propose is a fine. most here would recomend both nolva and clomid 40/40/20/20 100/100/50/50 respectively but with your situation i dunno know if its gonna make that big of a issue, sorry im trying to be positive and supportive but im just dumbfounded by your history. not trying to be a di**

good luck with with your decision.

**Subotai** · 10-13-2010, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by MBMETC

a 12wk cycle like you propose is a fine. most here would recomend both nolva and clomid 40/40/20/20 100/100/50/50 respectively but with your situation i dunno know if its gonna make that big of a issue, sorry im trying to be positive and supportive but im just dumbfounded by your history. not trying to be a di**

good luck with with your decision.

No worries about being a dick. The nice thing about anonomous message boards is how little I care about your opinion of me, internet not=serious business. I have entertained the thought of adding clomid as you suggested, but the Swale's article on using the two together made sense to me. I still might Thanks man