The "weight Qualifier".

**BOBfromfightclub** · 10-20-2010, 03:05 PM

OK, so I'm sure this thread may cause some debate but there has been one area regarding the uses of AAS that causes me frustration.

There seems to be this "Weight Qualifier" or perhaps an imaginary line, that people must cross before they are "OK" to uses AAS.

I hear all the time..."your only 170lbs...you need to get to at least 200lbs naturally before you should use AAS."

Ok I will admit that there more often then not there is room for natural gains when some one wants to take AAS. In fact im pretty sure there are a select few that have actually reached there "genetic potential" before they cycle.

Ok here is my point. I'm always hearing you need to gain at least (x) amount of weight before you NEED, AAS.

1. Every one is different. Guessing there "genetic potential" is like guessing the lottery numbers. You don't know them, or there family, or there genes. Simply seeing there height and saying well I weighed (x) amount more at that height, isn't a indicator of what they can achieve naturally.

2. Putting "Genetic Potential" behind, no one actually NEEDS AAS. If some one can gain an extra 10 pounds of muscle naturally before AAS, dose it really matter? What about the guy who has reached his "genetic potential" he still doesn't need AAS. Yes he needs them if he wants to get any bigger, but he still is just a guy WANTING to get bigger. He doesn't need them. Not at all. He wont die with out them. So how is this any different then the guy who is 10lbs behind his natural limit? Regardless of if he needs AAS he is the same guy as the guy who dose, he just wants to get bigger.

I feel like many people who have worked to there "potential" with out them feel like that person is taking some thing away from them by becoming big faster. But all in all, any one who has taken AAS out side of HRT has taken them not because they need them, but because they want them. I feel like as long as that person understands diet and knows how to train safely it shouldn't really matter how small they are before. I think all this focus on weight and natural potential is just a way to see if that person knows diet and exercise enough to keep there gains, and it has nothing to do with how close they are to "NEEDING" AAS

Any insight, comments, disapproval?

**Hazard** · 10-20-2010, 03:26 PM

Here's my thought.....

I don't think there should be a "set limit" - there is no one weight that suits everyone. 170lbs at 5'6 is A LOT different than 170lbs at 6'1. I'm sorry..... but if you are over 6' and you can't get to 180-190lbs naturally..... you aren't doing something right. There are rare exceptions..... but most of the human population should be able to attain a semi decent weight for their height before using aas.

Lets say this guy who's 6'1 165lbs wants to run a cycle because he just can't add any weight. He says his diet is perfect.... his training is spot on..... and he just wants cycle advice. We then give it to him and he gets to 185lbs..... he then goes into pct and starts losing his gains. Before he'll even know it..... he'll be back to 165lbs because he wasn't doing something right to begin with. A lot of guys will start a cycle and go balls to the wall eating and they'll gain weight...... unfortunately..... they can't keep this up.

Each person IMO is a sperate case and should be treated as such. We can't start roping in weights and generalizing ideas..... we need to hear each person circumstances before handing out advice.

~Haz~

**BOBfromfightclub** · 10-20-2010, 03:29 PM

Yeah, I added a part just now in my edit. Basically there really shouldn't be any thing about weight...just as long as they understand that they wont keep there gains without proper diet and continued exercise.

**Hazard** · 10-20-2010, 03:35 PM

well.....

We shouldn't just to a conclusion based on weight..... but weight and height are pretty good indicators. Again..... 5'6 200lbs - your a decently big guy. 6'1 - 200lbs..... not so much.....

If a guy tells me he's 6'1 165lbs..... I'm in no way advising him on how to run a cycle.....

~Haz~

**hugoboss** · 10-21-2010, 04:15 AM

I have known of a few guys who have become inspired by being on cycle. They eat better train harder and continue to do both after the cycle is finished. I dont agree that you need to be at any set level. You do need to be well educated on what you are doing to your body and the potential risks...

**codeegee** · 10-21-2010, 04:29 AM

Yeah, a good example is my roomie. Him and I are both sitting at 195lbs, both 6'0 and in high school we always had the same size / frame. Now, when we finish at the gym and look in the mirror after our workouts, my 195 and his 195 look a lot different, even with bf% aside (mine's maybe 11%, his 14%). "Genetic potential" is, imo, simply a personal judgement call that too many noobs make a biased, lazy decision on.

**Bonaparte** · 10-21-2010, 05:16 AM

Without pictures and being able to see how you eat and train, factoring one's height, weight, and bodyfat is basically the only way we can gauge someone's training knowledge and dedication on an internet forum. Sure, it isn't the actual weight that matters, but if someone is 6' tall and 150lbs, you can bet that they could get the gains they're looking for without worrying about AAS.

**peedee** · 10-21-2010, 05:38 AM

Well if someone has there mind set on cycling the least we could do is point them in the right direction instead of making an example of them and telling them nothing.

**Sicko** · 10-21-2010, 08:15 AM

Valid points to be heard here..I think that it is kinda like "like father like son" syndrome.By that I mean most everyone gets put thru the ringer when they try and enter the world of AAS. Sooo therefore they feel it is almost like a right of passage that you must go thru the guantlet,if you will, before you are worthy/ready to recieve help.Not saying that this is all bad s it gives the newbie a chance to do more research and take a second look at thier motives/goals.

**smalltime7** · 10-21-2010, 08:35 AM

I started doing them when I was about 155 bear in mind I am 5'6" was I a little early? maybe. but I would never suggest a 140lb guy do a cycle I think its ok to assume a ht/wt ratio when it comes to natural ability within reason. I am now 195 and usually I keep most of my gains.

**Bonaparte** · 10-21-2010, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by peedee

Well if someone has there mind set on cycling the least we could do is point them in the right direction instead of making an example of them and telling them nothing.

Well you are the minority here. If someone wants advice on something foolish, I usually just tell them to go to OLM. lol

**matt77** · 10-21-2010, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by peedee

Well if someone has there mind set on cycling the least we could do is point them in the right direction instead of making an example of them and telling them nothing.

Yeah not gonna happen with me either. I will not help someone that is either not old enough or not commited enough to use AAS. Most are just like the couple of twits at my gym who go from 6' 180 to 235 a couple times a year. Its like watching a ballon inflate and deflate with the seasons.

**Someguy123** · 10-21-2010, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by peedee

Well if someone has there mind set on cycling the least we could do is point them in the right direction instead of making an example of them and telling them nothing.

we do point them in the right direction. we point them right over to the diet forum. if you cant be at least semi fit looking, you have no business cycling. unless you have some kind of muscle wasting disease, there is no possible reason that you cant at least be semi muscular. and if you dont understand this, and think that steroids can make up for a sh!tty diet, then why would we give any advice on cycling when the person will end up disappointed in the end anyway?? so we advise them as to where they need work, so they can correct those problems, and then come back and get AAS advice when it will actually be beneficial to them.

a guy who tries steroids without correcting the other problems, will just end up addicted to steroids. theyll see that they cant keep those 20lbs they gained when they go off cycle, so theyll just want to stay on.

**Hazard** · 10-21-2010, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by peedee

Well if someone has there mind set on cycling the least we could do is point them in the right direction instead of making an example of them and telling them nothing.

So I tell someone I don't think it's in their best interest to cycle...... then he says "I'm going to do it anyways so you might as well help me" - If I actually gave in..... i'd have 10,000 new guys telling me to advise them or they'll doit anyways. Sure.... 9 out of 10 guys might go ahead and cycle anyways..... but 1 out of every 10 will take my advice and actually end up bigger, stronger, and healthier than the other 9.

The fvckin problem lies in the fact that people think steroids are a quick fix...... EVERYONE thinks another 10lbs will get them to where they want to be. It's just not the case..... it takes a long ass time and 10lbs is NEVER enough.....

~Haz~

**sleggio** · 10-21-2010, 02:42 PM

I'm relativey new to this site. I'm 45, 5'9" 235 11-12%. Just started my first cycle. Why did I do this? Because after 11 years of 6days/wk 2 hrs/day training, I hit a brick wall. I made fantastic gains during the 1st 10 years. I felt that at my age and my size that I wanted to see if I could continue progressing. I am committed to training/dieting and this is why I am doing this. I would still train this hard even if there was no such thing as aas.

The problem I see at the gyms I've been to is that people want an immediate fix for their life. I get deluged everyday with questions about training, diet, supplements, aas, etc. and when I respond that they really won't work without the work/diet ethic, I get despondent looks. You know the kind - "you mean I have to do this for 5-10 years?" There are people at my gym now that are doing the same workouts using the same weights as they did 3 years ago (light weights i may add). They ask me about aas. They think aas will solve their problems when really, if they'd stop yappin' and swillin' a case a beer on the weekends and actually commit to the lifestyle, they'd make alot of progress. I have yet to meet anyone at my gym that I would consider a candidate for aas. just my dos centavos, amigo

**Hazard** · 10-21-2010, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by sleggio

I'm relativey new to this site. I'm 45, 5'9" 235 11-12%. Just started my first cycle. Why did I do this? Because after 11 years of 6days/wk 2 hrs/day training, I hit a brick wall. I made fantastic gains during the 1st 10 years. I felt that at my age and my size that I wanted to see if I could continue progressing. I am committed to training/dieting and this is why I am doing this. I would still train this hard even if there was no such thing as aas.

The problem I see at the gyms I've been to is that people want an immediate fix for their life. I get deluged everyday with questions about training, diet, supplements, aas, etc. and when I respond that they really won't work without the work/diet ethic, I get despondent looks. You know the kind - "you mean I have to do this for 5-10 years?" There are people at my gym now that are doing the same workouts using the same weights as they did 3 years ago (light weights i may add). They ask me about aas. They think aas will solve their problems when really, if they'd stop yappin' and swillin' a case a beer on the weekends and actually commit to the lifestyle, they'd make alot of progress. I have yet to meet anyone at my gym that I would consider a candidate for aas. just my dos centavos, amigo

^^^^ EXACTLY

Everyone wants to be a bodybuilder..... everyone wants to look great..... yet NO ONE wants to change their lifestyle to achieve it. These are the people who want to jump on aas, eat double mcfat cheeseburgers, and drink case after case of beer.

~Haz~

**peedee** · 10-21-2010, 03:07 PM

And pointing them in the right direction could be sending them straight to the workout and diet threads.

**40plusnewbie** · 10-21-2010, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Sicko

Valid points to be heard here..I think that it is kinda like "like father like son" syndrome.By that I mean most everyone gets put thru the ringer when they try and enter the world of AAS. Sooo therefore they feel it is almost like a right of passage that you must go thru the guantlet,if you will, before you are worthy/ready to recieve help.Not saying that this is all bad s it gives the newbie a chance to do more research and take a second look at thier motives/goals.

This really seems to hit home. I was jumped all over about my first cycle, jumped all over about my 2nd and current cycle, but I"m 43 and know how to do friggin research. It is pretty damn annoying when some 23yo is making a bunch of assumptions about what I do and do not know and effectively talking out their ass in an immature way to me while offering their 'advice' or 'guidance'. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and I do not ignore input, suggestions, cautions, etc, particularly if they are put to me in a mature way. I might decide to not follow the specific advice in the end but I sure as heck won't dismiss it out of hand, especially if it was something that I was not already aware of as a potential concern/risk/etc.

**40plusnewbie** · 10-21-2010, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Well you are the minority here. If someone wants advice on something foolish, I usually just tell them to go to OLM. lol

Be for it or against it, the concept is referred to as "Harm Reduction".

**40plusnewbie** · 10-21-2010, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by matt77

Yeah not gonna happen with me either. I will not help someone that is either not old enough or not commited enough to use AAS. Most are just like the couple of twits at my gym who go from 6' 180 to 235 a couple times a year. Its like watching a ballon inflate and deflate with the seasons.

If u seen them pickin dirty syringes out of the trash in the locker room and using them to shoot their gear would you tell them where they could buy needles or just watch as they die from aids wasting syndrome?

**HawaiianPride.** · 10-21-2010, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by 40plusnewbie

If u seen them pickin dirty syringes out of the trash in the locker room and using them to shoot their gear would you tell them where they could buy needles or just watch as they die from aids wasting syndrome?

They shouldn't be using steroids if they are picking shit out of the trash and putting it in their bodies. So no, I wouldn't. They are the dumb asses setting themselves up for obvious infection and serious self body injury. Nobody deserves help if they have to resort to this kind of shit.

**40plusnewbie** · 10-21-2010, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by HawaiianPride.

They shouldn't be using steroids if they are picking shit out of the trash and putting it in their bodies. So no, I wouldn't. They are the dumb asses setting themselves up for obvious infection and serious self body injury. Nobody deserves help if they have to resort to this kind of shit.

Like I said, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Of course there are strong philosophical arguments that can be made with respect to EITHER option of telling them or not.

for instance: Would you still feel comfortable that you had made that decision if you found out a couple of years later that not only did they both have aids, that your sister hooked up with one of them one night and now SHE has aids too.

**HawaiianPride.** · 10-21-2010, 06:23 PM

In reality though, I'd tell them to use google or walk up to their local pharmacy. Now days it's almost as easy to buy sterile syringes as it is to buy a loaf of bread. But no, I wouldn't send them a direct source. They should use their heads.

**Natureboy71** · 10-21-2010, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by sleggio

I'm relativey new to this site. I'm 45, 5'9" 235 11-12%. Just started my first cycle. Why did I do this? Because after 11 years of 6days/wk 2 hrs/day training, I hit a brick wall. I made fantastic gains during the 1st 10 years. I felt that at my age and my size that I wanted to see if I could continue progressing. I am committed to training/dieting and this is why I am doing this. I would still train this hard even if there was no such thing as aas.

The problem I see at the gyms I've been to is that people want an immediate fix for their life. I get deluged everyday with questions about training, diet, supplements, aas, etc. and when I respond that they really won't work without the work/diet ethic, I get despondent looks. You know the kind - "you mean I have to do this for 5-10 years?" There are people at my gym now that are doing the same workouts using the same weights as they did 3 years ago (light weights i may add). They ask me about aas. They think aas will solve their problems when really, if they'd stop yappin' and swillin' a case a beer on the weekends and actually commit to the lifestyle, they'd make alot of progress. I have yet to meet anyone at my gym that I would consider a candidate for aas. just my dos centavos, amigo

Fantastic post. This is also the problem when people see you as a big guy and know your on the gear and say "oh, well, he's just on steriods ". Like it happened overnight or they do everything for you.

**terraj** · 10-21-2010, 07:21 PM

"genetic potential" is the most over used term in BB, does anyone reach it.....

**40plusnewbie** · 10-21-2010, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by HawaiianPride.

In reality though, I'd tell them to use google or walk up to their local pharmacy. Now days it's almost as easy to buy sterile syringes as it is to buy a loaf of bread. But no, I wouldn't send them a direct source. They should use their heads.

It would be nice if everyone used their heads but we both know that isn't realistic given the way the human race behaves today. I guess I just believe in freedom of choice. I don't want to control your choices and the way you live your life (or anyone else for that matter) and I don't want people to control my life, or try to.

I fell on the wrong side of 20% bf when I started my current cycle and some ignorant people got up my ass about how bad it was for me, a few talked about my bp and cholesterol in condescending ways
"Oh but YOU knew that .... didn't you" I've known my bp and cholesterol levels and followed them for the past few years. my bp off cycle is 108/66 and my cholesterol is 136. People sometimes make assumptions about what is "right" or "wrong" for someone else without even having proper info to go on. So I take a little letro, am I gonna wind up with D cups? Me don't think so.

**matt77** · 10-21-2010, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by 40plusnewbie

If u seen them pickin dirty syringes out of the trash in the locker room and using them to shoot their gear would you tell them where they could buy needles or just watch as they die from aids wasting syndrome?

Nope not around here I would not say a word. There are 3 drug stores and a Walmart that all sell pins for pennies less than a mile from the gym.

Originally Posted by HawaiianPride.

They shouldn't be using steroids if they are picking shit out of the trash and putting it in their bodies. So no, I wouldn't. They are the dumb asses setting themselves up for obvious infection and serious self body injury. Nobody deserves help if they have to resort to this kind of shit.

Exactly, I will be the first to help someone I see that needs it if they are really trying. But people that do not use basic common sense I will not help at all.

Originally Posted by HawaiianPride.

In reality though, I'd tell them to use google or walk up to their local pharmacy. Now days it's almost as easy to buy sterile syringes as it is to buy a loaf of bread. But no, I wouldn't send them a direct source. They should use their heads.

Or like in some places they give them out for free and even provide a sterile booth to shoot up in a clean private place!