New Member, first cycle advice and help in transferring to sterile vial

**Finalforce** · 11-23-2010, 01:16 AM

Hey, new to the forum wanna see whatsup guys. Well im planning to run a cycle of test cyp with decca dosing probably 500mg test weeks 1-10 and decca 400mg weeks 1-8. I will be using ******* products and justwanna make sure my steps in usage are correct. I will of course wipe down everything with alcohol and sterilize everything. I will put a 25g needle into the vial to vent air and draw from the packets using a 18g needle then swap to a 22-23g needle to inject into the vial. Can I reusue the 18g needle for multiple packets or am i better off using another one, and also may I reuse the 22-23g needle I used to inject into the vial, pins are cheap so if using new needles are smarter I will go this route. Also should I use a whatman filter if yes how should I use it and during which steps should it be on the pump or throughout the entire process? Also is baking necessary? Sorry for the long first text your help is greatly appreciated!

P.S just noticed my source was blocked sorry bout that but I think my post makes it clear what type of produce I am using

**Bonaparte** · 11-23-2010, 03:39 AM

I would just use a 20-21g for the entire process. No need to switch pins.
If you have a pressure cooker, I would use that to autoclave the finished vials. If not, you could tyndalize them (3 seperate 30 minute boils).

**Tigershark** · 11-23-2010, 05:08 AM

How old are you?
I would never reuse a needle for anything at anytime.

**Bonaparte** · 11-23-2010, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by Tigershark

How old are you?
I would never reuse a needle for anything at anytime.

Well you obviously have never homebrewed, since this is standard procedure. You are only moving the needle from one sterile environment to the other several times back to back. And if the packets aren't sterile, then neither is the gear, so it makes no difference. Oh, and this is why I suggested that he autoclave the oil once its in the vials, since I don't trust his aseptic transferring skills, nor his sketchy gear (I don't know of any manufacturer who uses that type of packaging that I would trust).

**Finalforce** · 11-23-2010, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Well you obviously have never homebrewed, since this is standard procedure. You are only moving the needle from one sterile environment to the other several times back to back. And if the packets aren't sterile, then neither is the gear, so it makes no difference. Oh, and this is why I suggested that he autoclave the oil once its in the vials, since I don't trust his aseptic transferring skills, nor his sketchy gear (I don't know of any manufacturer who uses that type of packaging that I would trust).

I understand what you are saying, this is my first pin cycle so im alittle paranoid and just wanna get exact answers. I think I will stick to what you said and just use a 21 gauge for the entire process and possibly swap out needles to be more cautious. When I bake it how long should I allow the vial to sit before I rebake i for the next time. Also the proper temperature is 250 correct? Lastly since I am baking it is using a filter necessary or can filtering be used instead of baking.

**Bonaparte** · 11-23-2010, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Finalforce

I understand what you are saying, this is my first pin cycle so im alittle paranoid and just wanna get exact answers. I think I will stick to what you said and just use a 21 gauge for the entire process and possibly swap out needles to be more cautious. When I bake it how long should I allow the vial to sit before I rebake i for the next time. Also the proper temperature is 250 correct? Lastly since I am baking it is using a filter necessary or can filtering be used instead of baking.

I NEVER said to bake it. I said autoclave (pressure cook) which is much safer, since you can't exceed 252 F. Ovens are unreliable.
Ideally, you should draw up all the packets (of the same type) into a 60ml syringe, then use a caulk gun to filter the oil into the vial with a .22um syringe filter. If you do this, you could just let it sit for a week so that the BA kills anything that makes it through without worrying about heat-sterilizing.

**Finalforce** · 11-23-2010, 12:47 PM

Misread, heard of so many people baking it, I will def use a filter then. Thanks for the help bonaparte

**MrGreen** · 11-23-2010, 01:34 PM

Bonaparte is one of the more knowledge people about brewing so you can pretty much always trust his advice.

**Finalforce** · 11-23-2010, 01:57 PM

So i have figured out from these posts I will use one size need 20-21 gauge to draw and already have a smaller needle in the vial to vent gases. When using a filter I willl remove the needle attach filter attach a new needle and then filter it into the vial. On the next packet I will remove the filter and redraw using the same needle as the first packet and then again reatach the filter and use a new needle. How many mL can a .22 filter do and is it necessary to get .22 over .4 Also I have to add the BA myself correct? after the vial is already full if this is correct I believe I read that its 2% of volume so 10cc will be .2ml. How does this sound

**Bonaparte** · 11-24-2010, 02:38 AM

Ok, well how many compounds, packets, and vials are we talking about here?
Use a .2um filter, as a lot of bacteria will make it through a .45um.
If the gear is clean (and it damn well should be), you should be able to get around 100ml through it, though this will vary depending on the temp of the oil (which you should warm to 50 C), the viscosity of the oil used, and the brand of filter used. Buy several filters just in case, since they tend to break or clog.
You should not have to add BA, since any UGL will put more than enough in there to cover their own sloppiness.

**marcus300** · 11-24-2010, 02:55 AM

What are your stats?
How long have you been training?
Whats your diet like?
Give us some background please

**Tigershark** · 11-24-2010, 05:04 AM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Well you obviously have never homebrewed, since this is standard procedure. You are only moving the needle from one sterile environment to the other several times back to back. And if the packets aren't sterile, then neither is the gear, so it makes no difference. Oh, and this is why I suggested that he autoclave the oil once its in the vials, since I don't trust his aseptic transferring skills, nor his sketchy gear (I don't know of any manufacturer who uses that type of packaging that I would trust).

I know what you are saying but I work in healthcare and standard precautions is embedded in my brain.

**Bonaparte** · 11-24-2010, 05:18 AM

Originally Posted by Tigershark

I know what you are saying but I work in healthcare and standard precautions is embedded in my brain.

Well when you draw from 2 different vials into a single syringe, do you actually use a different pin for each vial? Same scenario.

**Finalforce** · 11-24-2010, 02:19 PM

I will be getting 8 5ml packets of each test cyp and Deca . I should use seperate filters for each compound correct? Also I have had different answers as far as if I need to vent air by putting a needle in the vial and leaving it there to allow air to exit as you push in the gear.
Stats-age 23(not starting cycle for 3 months will be 24 by then), 5ft 9 205lbs 11%bf. Diet is high carb high protein (lots of chicken, turkey, rice, and bread). Im not a noob as far as lifting goes but as far as gear I am and just trying to get everything down 100% and if it means I ask stupid questions just to be extra sure I dont mind looking like a jackass lol.

**SlimmerMe** · 11-24-2010, 02:22 PM

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**rock75** · 11-24-2010, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

I NEVER said to bake it. I said autoclave (pressure cook) which is much safer, since you can't exceed 252 F. Ovens are unreliable.
Ideally, you should draw up all the packets (of the same type) into a 60ml syringe, then use a caulk gun to filter the oil into the vial with a .22um syringe filter. If you do this, you could just let it sit for a week so that the BA kills anything that makes it through without worrying about heat-sterilizing.

Originally Posted by Finalforce

So i have figured out from these posts I will use one size need 20-21 gauge to draw and already have a smaller needle in the vial to vent gases. When using a filter I willl remove the needle attach filter attach a new needle and then filter it into the vial. On the next packet I will remove the filter and redraw using the same needle as the first packet and then again reatach the filter and use a new needle. How many mL can a .22 filter do and is it necessary to get .22 over .4 Also I have to add the BA myself correct? after the vial is already full if this is correct I believe I read that its 2% of volume so 10cc will be .2ml. How does this sound

do what bonaparte says in bold for each AS you have. You should draw all of the cyp in 1 60ml syringe and then all the deca in 1 60ml syringe; then you will place a pin into the sterile vial you want to transfer to, rig your filter to the 60ml of cyp and filter; repeat using new filter for deca...

**rock75** · 11-24-2010, 04:44 PM

what are you plans for PCT - Post Cycle Therapy ?

**Far from massive** · 11-24-2010, 05:26 PM

I would add that you might want to take the vial of Deca and save it for later. That is you would be better off on a first cycle to just run the cyp, deca is a pretty harsh hormone and you will see plenty of gains with just test as a first cycle. This will also allow you to see how your body reacts to test alone that way it will be a lot easier to deal with any sides (and sides will be a lot less likely) then if you want to add the deca to a later cycle you will already be familiar with your body and its reaction to test so you will be able to gauge Deca and its any sides and your recovery accordingly.

This concept of growing into your dose and starting out with straight test is well respected.

**yungone501** · 11-24-2010, 05:55 PM

Um, how about what marcus asked earlier in this thread? We should first ensure he's capable of using before just throwing out advice here guys.

**Finalforce** · 11-24-2010, 08:31 PM

I will deffinitly consider doing straight test just hear high praise on this cycle, would it be a waste to even run a low deca dose like 200-250mg a week? I posted my stats before Stats-age 23(not starting cycle for 3 months will be 24 by then), 5ft 9 207lbs 11%bf. Diet is high carb high protein (lots of chicken, turkey, rice, and bread). Been lifting since was about 16ish. How will my gains compare using straight test vs test and decca?

**Bonaparte** · 11-24-2010, 09:36 PM

You don't need the Deca for your first cycle. Just filter the Test Cyp and use that.

**Finalforce** · 11-24-2010, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

You don't need the Deca for your first cycle. Just filter the Test Cyp and use that.

I think I will take your advice Bonaparte. What do you think about this. 10 weeks of Test eth 500 mg with weeks 1-4 dbol 30mg. Do you feel it will be beneficial to push to 12 weeks of test? I will run a ai thruoought the cycle maybe a low letro dose like .25 mg a day or am i better off just using nolva thruought. For pct I planned to run nolva 20-20-10-10 and possibly use clomid side by side with it 50-50-25-25 or is this overkill?

**Bonaparte** · 11-24-2010, 10:18 PM

Drop the Test dose down to 400mg/week.
Your proposed Dbol kickstart is fine if you can't wait a month for the test to kick in (though it would be best to just run the test).
Use Aromasin throughout the cycle for estrogen control.
PCT:
Nolva- 40/20/20/20/20
Clomid-50/50/50/50

**Finalforce** · 11-25-2010, 01:07 AM

How should I dose the Aromasin ? Thanks again bonaparte, def will follow this, ill just save the deca for a future cycle.

**Tigershark** · 11-25-2010, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Well when you draw from 2 different vials into a single syringe, do you actually use a different pin for each vial? Same scenario.

True I read the origanal post wrong. That's what happens when you are tired. Yes I will use the same pin to dram from seperate vials.

**Bonaparte** · 11-25-2010, 02:28 AM

Originally Posted by Finalforce

How should I dose the Aromasin? Thanks again bonaparte, def will follow this, ill just save the deca for a future cycle.

It's standard protocol to start with 12.5mg EOD and adjust as needed.

**Red X** · 11-26-2010, 03:49 AM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Drop the Test dose down to 400mg/week.
Your proposed Dbol kickstart is fine if you can't wait a month for the test to kick in (though it would be best to just run the test).
Use Aromasin throughout the cycle for estrogen control.
PCT:
Nolva- 40/20/20/20/20
Clomid-50/50/50/50

do we need to run HCG during cycle.if yes how to use?

**Bonaparte** · 11-26-2010, 08:43 AM

HCG - run 5000 IUs spread out however you like. Most do 500-750IUs/week (2 shots per week) leading up till 1 week before PCT.
Oh, and that is for the OP, since we have already established that Red-X should not use AAS