Feedback for a six week cycle

[JM110]

After reading an awesome thread titled 'Post-your-Cycle-Theory-Hypothesis' I would like to ask for some feedback on a 6 week cycle. Im 6'1", 195lb, 20%bf, two previous Eq/Winstrol cycles and ive noticed it takes me about 2 months for my natural Test levels to return to normal without PCT (shrinkballs).

Goals for this would be 10lb+ sustainable muscle. What would you recommend for dosages or changes to this cycle?

Week 1-2: Test Susp(??)/Dianabol (??)/Aromasin (3mgED)/Proscar(??)
Week 3-4: Test Susp(??)/Winstol(??)
Week 5-6: Test Susp(??)/Anavar (??)
PCT: Clen (??)/Nolva(??)/Clomid(??)
Week 1-10: Vit C (1.5gED)/Omega 3/6

If there a PM that wouldnt mind, I have an international source I would like to check.

[MBMETC]

Winni for a week and anavar for a week is pointless
What are your full stats
Age
Yrs training
Cycle exp

[JM110]

im 34, 195lb, 6'1" 15%+bf
training 6 years
2 cycles of Eq and winni.

Thank you for the feedback.
I’m trying to build a ‘quick in quick out’ cycle. I have fallen out of love with Eq and think that by choosing fast acting / short half-life androgens ED (test susp, Dbol , winni and anavar ) it would allow quick gains by shocking the system and then allowing me to quickly protect them (PCT) to maintain the most muscle. My choice of Winni was only to lower the SERM levels during and (if i understand things correctly) to allow my body to bounce back more quickly to its normal state after the cycle.

Here is my best guess so far:
Week 1-2: Test Susp(600mg week)/Dianabol (30mgED)/Proscar(1mg ED)
Week 3-4: Test Susp(600mg week)/Winstol(50 EOD)Aromasin (5mgEOD)/Proscar(1mg ED)
Week 5-6: Test Susp(600mg week)/Anavar(50mg ED)Aromasin(5mgEOD)/Proscar(1mg ED)
PCT Week 7-8: Clen (60mg EOD)/Nolva(20mg ED)/Clomid(50mg)
PCT Week 9-10: Clen(30mg EOD)/Nolva(10mg ED)/Clomid(25mg)
Week 1-10: Vit E (800IU ED)/Vit C (2g ED)

[higgy]

Winni for a week and anavar for a week is pointless
What are your full stats
Age
Yrs training
Cycle exp

^^^agreed

[auslifta]

I wish I could lose 5%bf in hour and 40mins.
I don't know about the test suspension, have you read up on it? It needs alot of shots.

[JM110]

two weeks on Winni and the following two weeks on Anavar ...but my question is why? is it not building up in the body enough? Is the two weeks not enough time for the compound to work or my body to react. The point of the short cycle is heavy fast gear and getting out before the body reacts

[cjBeast]

What's your goal here? You mentioned 10+ lbs sustainable muscle in you OP but your gear choice is more for cutting, ie: maintaining LBM, not gaining.

IMO, change the test susp to sustanon , and drop the winni and anavar and run the dbol the whole time. Then run 2-3 wks PCT and another 2-3 wks maintenance with no AS or supps and hit a the cut cycle above.

[JM110]

CJBeast thanks. I considered Sust but opted against any long acting esters. I want it fast acting and with no residuals to combat with PCT at the end. I did think about Dbol the whole time but thought Winni in the middle would knock down the SERM levels making quitting two weeks later easier on recovery.
What are your thoughts on more Test? would that lean the cycle into more of a bulk and less of a cutting cycle?

[cjBeast]

At 600mg a wk of test, your going to need PCT regardless, the ester makes no difference there. Without it, you will loose 90% of what you gain. Personally I would go test cyp at 500mg/day for the 6 wks and follow it up with clomid for 4 wks at 100/75/50/25 mg per day.

[JM110]

Auslifta, yes I was thinking the Test Susp would have the shortest lifespan in the body (24hr) but YES, it would be a shot a day. I am comfortable with pins

[JM110]

CJBeast, so you dont think this PCT will be enough to protect my gains on 500mg/week Test? even while running 5mg of Aromasin EOD from week 3-6?

PCT Week 7-8: Clen (60mg EOD) / Nolva(20mg ED) / Clomid(50mg ED)
PCT Week 9-10: Clen(30mg EOD) / Nolva(10mg ED) / Clomid(25mg ED)

[cjBeast]

No. And what's the clen for? Again, are you trying to cut at the same time?

[JM110]

CJBeast, the Clen is to knock out the anti-catabolic effects of Cortisol post cycle. Since Cortisol rises with Estrogen it made sense to add it with the PCT. I worry the amount is to high and would like to use the lowest amount possible.

[dexta_03]

While i've never cycled personally i have been reading on these forums for months though...6 weeks on that sort of test dosage will shut you down well before you reach the end of the cycle. A good PCT protocol was outlined by mudman in this sticky http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...for-the-Newbie and you should also check out swiftos HCG and PCT advice here http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ed-08-12-09%29

Im sure a fair few people would agree that a proper PCT is a staple in cycling to keep as much of the gains you made during cycle and to recover properly. Also personally from what I have read Anavar should be run for at least 4 weeks but no longer than 8 weeks to see its full effects as users dont report seeing the full effects of var until around the 2nd to 3rd week. Again personally I think 2 weeks of winstrol is a waste also and test suspension requires pinning multiple times a day so if by 'sustainable' gains you mean less possible water gains prop would be a good option. Keep in mind that diet plays a major role in achieving your goals also.

[Tigershark]

winni for a week and anavar for a week is pointless
what are your full stats
age
yrs training
cycle exp

x3..

[JM110]

Dexta 03, thanks. both those threads were great reading. A lot of good info there. I have to think about the statement "I’m a firm believer in starting anti-estrogens 2 weeks prior to the start of the cycle" from TheMudMan. It does seem to make a lot of sense though. Considering the half-life of any substance would seem to make predicting the outcome easier.
I also, liked Vit C at doses from 1-3g daily with 1g on waking from (http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ontrol-and-PCT). great reading and a common sense addition to any workout plan

Im still having trouble understanding why a substance (say anavar ) needs to be run for a certain length of time. It makes sense not to run something to long due to toxicity issues but is something really a waste for two weeks. My purpose for Winni was for the sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) binding abilities pre-PCT (SORRY I HAVE POSTED SERM AND MEANT SHBG). I will do more reading on that.

Im starting to think Test P is a better choice than Test Susp at a daily dose. im basing that off the graph in this post (http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...equency-Graphs). With the short life span i hoped the body would not be 100% set in shutdown mode and would then restart very quickly with the normal PCT.

I have a very clean / natural diet and by 'sustainable' i mean; get the muscle growth happening fast, then get natural hormone levels to normal ASAP allowing me to maintain as much of the gains as possible. I expect some water gain and the water weight loss later but that is a result of Test conversion and I think the Aromasin (5mgEOD) will keep it to a minimum.

[Redial]

CJBeast, so you dont think this PCT will be enough to protect my gains on 500mg/week Test? even while running 5mg of Aromasin EOD from week 3-6?

PCT Week 7-8: Clen (60mg EOD) / Nolva(20mg ED) / Clomid(50mg ED)
PCT Week 9-10: Clen(30mg EOD) / Nolva(10mg ED) / Clomid(25mg ED)

4 weeks of PCT for 6week test cycle, and with nolva+clomid - I'm not seeing why this won't be effective, what are you guys talking about...?? 4weeks PCT protocol is what is normally done after 12weeks of test cycle.

If you want to help your recovery, shoot a minimum dose of HCG throughout the cycle, keeps your nuts alive and ready for becoming PCT. Like 250iu E2D or something. It helped me ALOT when I did that just last 2 weeks in my previous test cycle, recovery was a lot faster and I did just 3weeks nolva 20mg/ED in the end. In the cycle before that I did not run HCG and did nolva 4weeks, and recovery was lousy.

[Redial]

Im still having trouble understanding why a substance (say anavar) needs to be run for a certain length of time. It makes sense not to run something to long due to toxicity issues but is something really a waste for two weeks. My purpose for Winni was for the sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) binding abilities pre-PCT (SORRY I HAVE POSTED SERM AND MEANT SHBG). I will do more reading on that.

I think people are just making things more complicated then they are. Only reason why people say anavar works "slowly", is just that it's pretty mild - and because of that you won't see any big changes in your body until few weeks of use. It will work from the day 1 like any oral will - but when you will see any big changes depends on how strong the drug is you are using! That's why people prefer stronger compounds in short cycles.

There is absolutely no evidences that some oral steroid would start it's job after x amount of weeks, they all have pretty short half-lifes and they all work within their half-life, which is almost immediately. It would be a different thing if anavar had a half-life of 7days in example, then it would build up the dose in your bloodstream slowly, and then it would be logical that when the dose slowly increases, gains will increase too. But it doesn't, the dose will peak up in first few days.

But I can't see why you are mixing things up so much, why wouldn't you choose 1 or 2 orals in your cycle, and run it through the 6w course. Like start with dbol /tbol 3w and then 3w of anavar, or do a split combo of both, like 20mg/dbol + 30-40mg/anavar through the 6 weeks. OR just stick with 6weeks of anavar or something. There is no point switching the oral every 2 weeks.


btw, Tbol does that too with the SHBG, and it's better in all ways than Winni.

[JM110]

Redial, thanks, Im starting to think that it might be to complicated. would this make more sense?:
Week 1-2: Test Susp(600mg week)/ Dbol or Tbol(30mgED)/Proscar(1mg ED)
Week 3-4: Test Susp(600mg week)/ Dbol or Tbol(30mgEOD)/Aromasin (5mgEOD)/Proscar(1mg ED)
Week 5-6: Test Susp(600mg week)/Aromasin(5mgEOD)/Proscar(1mg ED)
PCT Week 7-8: Nolva(20mg ED) / Clomid(50mg) or Tormifene (120-60mg ED)
PCT Week 9-10: Nolva(10mg ED) / Clomid(25mg) or Tormifene (120-60mg ED)
Week 1-10: Vit E (800IU ED)/Vit C (1g morning, 2g PWO)

Any thoughts on starting the Aromasin 2 weeks prior to the official cycle?