first cycle not sure if i want to inject yet so considering PH opinions?

[bbh90]

iv never cycled anything im pretty aware of how to cycle both AAS and PH's but im not sure i want to take the full plunge into AAS yet

so im considering doing trenazone instead which is basically just xtremetren but in a spray form iv seen pretty good reviews about it

but idk what i want to do yet if i werent to do trenazone i think i would probably just want to do a simple test cycle of either prop or test E

whats you guys thoughts? do you think if i were to do the trenazone i would be disappointed or feel it was a waste?

[redz]

I have never heard of trenazone, sprayable ph sounds sketchy. I persibally won`t touch ph's myself. What are your stats?

[bbh90]

im 5 10 about 170 right now right about 8% i know i can continue to gain naturally probably up to 180 and about 185-190 is my overall goal at about 7-8% but to be honest i dont want to wait till im like 30 to achieve my goal physique

as well i bulged a disc this year and lost about 15 pounds cuz i couldnt lift for 3 months so iv been regaining and im about back to where i was maybe a few pounds off

but basically iv been lifting for 7 years i mean a good portion of that lifting was in highschool football when i didnt have a great diet or anything so id say in the lst 2-3 years is when iv really gotten everything down and learned how to reach the goals i want to meet with proper training and diet sleep lifestyle im almost 21 now not looking for anyones approval i know the whole 25 rule

if you have heard of xtremetren its the same thing ya i thought the spray form seemed a bit weird too but apparently ppl are enjoying it i was trying to stay away from the methyl ph's cuz of the liver issues it seems the methyl effect everyone liver differently iv heard of ppl having serious problems on their first cycle and ppl being totally fine on the 4th cycle

have you ever cycled? id like to do a prop cycle but for some reason i get a little paranoid about real injectables cuz its like no matter who your getting them from its still the black market and i do understand how to do proper pct and what to do on cycle but im kind of torn often when i am trying to decide how imperative HCG would be to the cycle

[marcus300]

You don't need steroids or PH's, re-design your diet and training programme because you can achieve your goals without any complications what AAS/PH's could bring at your age.

[PistolStarta]

PH's suck to come off of, trust me my penis will tell you.

[bbh90]

marcus im not ignoring what your saying but i assure you its not my diet or training routine im gaining right now iv been gaining for the last 3 months being back in the gym iv gained about 15 pounds my diet is between 4500 and 5000 cals wtih about 300 grams protein 400-450 grams carbs and about 90 fats and yes i am about 8-10% bodyfat taking in that many cals lol

my routine is good if anything id say i border on overtraining iv been switching it up pretty often to keep the muscle confusion up this week i decided im doing 90% all compounds with only a little bit of isolations to try and pack more mass on i do a 5 day split

this is more a matter of achieving my goals faster than would be possible naturally not so much resorting to steroids because i dont believe i can do it naturally

im not gonna bullsh!t you is all im trying to say ya your right i can achieve it naturally but it would take a few years most likly and by that time ill be done with college and as much as i love bodybuilding iv been lifting for 7+ years extremely dedicated i know that when im through college and start working life will sometimes get in the way and it will be very hard to be as dedicated anymore not that i wont do my best i mean my idea of dedication is extremely strict dieting organic foods no dairy sources all animal meet proteins hittin the gym 5 days a week never missing 8 hours of sleep i pretty much never drink but i know that will be a lot harder to manage when working

[Eazy20]

marcus im not ignoring what your saying but i assure you its not my diet or training routine im gaining right now iv been gaining for the last 3 months being back in the gym iv gained about 15 pounds my diet is between 4500 and 5000 cals wtih about 300 grams protein 400-450 grams carbs and about 90 fats and yes i am about 8-10% bodyfat taking in that many cals lol

Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit.

[marcus300]

Your HPTA hasn't fully developed and by shutting it down you can cause yourself no never run at peak testosterone again, do you want to risk a limp dick, low test and other complication! if you do it shows how immature you really are.

I will leave you to read this

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.

[bbh90]

Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit.

thats funny cuz im doing a sponsored log right now on a product and have logged all my workouts and diet and i can show progress pictures as well so its unfortunate you feel that way

[Eazy20]

thats funny cuz im doing a sponsored log right now on a product and have logged all my workouts and diet and i can show progress pictures as well so its unfortunate you feel that way

Please do.

[bbh90]

Your HPTA hasn't fully developed and by shutting it down you can cause yourself no never run at peak testosterone again, do you want to risk a limp dick, low test and other complication! if you do it shows how immature you really are.

I will leave you to read this

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.

believe me i have read this many times as well i have made this same post many times i cant honestly say im ever sure if im really going to do it i get the urge sometimes and then ill become more satisfied with where i am and the urge fades away i do appreciate your concern

sometimes i wonder if the reason i get these urges and post this is cuz i just want to know there is an option when im feeling less content with my progress i know theres always that way that second option that will ensure you reach your goal even if it does have the possible negative sides

what continuously bothers me about the whole age thing is that there are tons of athletes tons of college student tons of high school kids tons of random guys who just started going to the gym and want to get big fast tons of people in general that have done steroids or ph's in their lifetime well before 25 and all of them seem to be ok and even some have had their hormone levels checked to be fine

i think that the side effects are not overstate as in what can potentially go wrong but overstated in what can potential go wrong when used wisely when have you seen someone do everything right in their cycle and come out fukced up? i havnt as a matter of fact there were studies done on 18 year old guys who were administered testosterone with proper pct and they all came out fine

iv talked to multiple doctors and some yes will says stay away from it its all bad but they never give reasons to support why they say that and i have talked to other doctors that say the truth is ya things can go wrong but if used properly iv seen many many ppl be perfectly fine and they told me that what it comes down to is doing it the right way

not even that long ago when i was 17 i remember reading all about ph's and steroids so that was 3 and a half years ago and there wasnt even any talk of 25+ the age that was considered safe was 21+

not to mention the tons of people who come on here and say their 25+ and are going to cycle when really they are younger than that

my point is im not seeing it all add up wheres the evidence? and even if the evidence is there whats the context its used in? did the person do a terrible cycle with no pct and thats what your basing this on? cuz thats what im seeing most of the time people see some 18 year old kid who has no idea what hes doing do a test cycle then come in here wondering why he has a problem and everyone jumps on the age band waggon well maybe its cuz he did the whole cycle wrong im pretty sure it doesnt matter what age you are if you dont do an appropriate pct your gonna be screwed

im not saying your wrong im just saying id like to see some evidence cuz iv seen a lot of accusations with nothing to support them

my guess is most ppl on this board will think im just trying to justify using but in fact my post records alone will prove that me posting a thread talking about a first cycle is a pretty sh!tty chance its really going to happen

all im saying is id like to see what makes you so sure of this cuz i remember just a few weeks ago i was on here and some either 17 or 18 year old kid did a cycle of deca and i forgot if he even used test while on it and realized half way though that maybe he should have planned this out better came on here got advice for a proper pct and got his test levels check a while after pct and came back in the 900's

im just saying id like to see all these tons of people under 25 who are doing practical cycles with correct support sups and PCT that are having problems

[bbh90]

my log
No links to other sites, edit

the diet that i have been using is on page 2 i believe the first post on page 2 and i do realize that diet is 4205 cals but iv been adding in extra oatmeal and fats that i didnt record on there you can believe me if you want dont really care its still 4205 cals on paper at least


im posting my most recent progress pic after from where i started not that long ago barely back in the gym after a bulged disc but the pic on the front page was a few weeks ago maybe a month you can feel free to complement the massive progress iv made now that you called me out for being a liar

[5x10]

if your going to do it, take the plunge and inject
it has been stated (dr scully)that non aromatizing PHs are THE worst on your cholesterol/lipid profile
thats the true threat of hormones nobody worries about

[Eazy20]

So let me get this straight. You've apparently made considerable progress in roughly a months time naturally and can clearly continue to do so, but you'd rather jump on AAS because you're not gaining fast enough? Sounds like a smart move to me

[bbh90]

So let me get this straight. You've apparently made considerable progress in roughly a months time naturally and can clearly continue to do so, but you'd rather jump on AAS because you're not gaining fast enough? Sounds like a smart move to me

dude just leave the thread your the kind of person that wants to argue anything you can i proved you wrong and your mad about it sorry

EDIT i will adress your point though its more a matter of that if i never got hurt i cant imagine where i would be i was bigger than i am in this pic before injured and im really disapointed i had to basically start over otherwise i dont think AAS would even be on my mind i just want to be where i feel i should have been

[Eazy20]

dude just leave the thread your the kind of person that wants to argue anything you can i proved you wrong and your mad about it sorry

And you my friend have the mind and attitude of an immature child. You want what you want right now and even though it could potentially harm you and you are perfectly capable of doing it on your own with no risk (which you have proved), you don't care. Go ahead and do what you want boss. Clearly juice is the answer for you. Good luck

[Brady Johnson]

Test is best man. If you absolutely do not want to pin then Hdrol is the PH to use. Its somewhat mild and sides are way less than superdrol. But yes, watch your cholesterol/lipid profile. Eat clean

[bbh90]

And you my friend have the mind and attitude of an immature child. You want what you want right now and even though it could potentially harm you and you are perfectly capable of doing it on your own with no risk (which you have proved), you don't care. Go ahead and do what you want boss. Clearly juice is the answer for you. Good luck

not gonna say your wrong

its not so much that i dont care what happens its more that im not convinced the possible sides are any where near as likly as people make them out to be

[5x10]

i also suggest you go to the pct section of this board and read swifto pct guide and q/a thread
another big risk of any roid is the mental dependency, guys dont want to come off
you dont go back to pre cycle levels, you go to the bottom and life sucks at the bottom
no energy, no libido, your basically a women hormonally and it could last for months
this leads to guys getting right back on after 6 weeks of being off and the cycle repeats itself for year, increasing the odds of plaque building on artery walls, in your heart, etc
thats why a good pct is so important, so you can get back to baseline levels quicker, reducing your chances of breaking down and getting back ono
understand that this is temporary state, youve worked out for years without it, so im confident you will get off, stay off for an extended period and then try again if you like
good luck

[Dianabolicus]

Ditch the anabolics- stop eating bitchflakes!!! get some more food in you... 5 10... 170? NO! NO WAY!!!1!! GO F*** SOME BIRDS UP!!! STEAK...

[Dianabolicus]

And if you don't want to train harder and eat more.. at least shoot the juice in your ass... chin up bro.

[bbh90]

And if you don't want to train harder and eat more.. at least shoot the juice in your ass... chin up bro.

lol i dont understand what your saying by if i dont want to train harder shoot of the juice in my ass? if i were to cycle the ass would be my first injection point of choice lol

but i would train all day if more training resulted in better gains as a natural i have to make sure i dont over due it but check out the log man im down for any type of critiquing

most recently i have switched to focusing much more on compound lifts though in the begining of the log i was doing about half compound half iso and right now im doing about 90% compound with a small amount of iso

[Honkey_Kong]

And you my friend have the mind and attitude of an immature child. You want what you want right now and even though it could potentially harm you and you are perfectly capable of doing it on your own with no risk (which you have proved), you don't care. Go ahead and do what you want boss. Clearly juice is the answer for you. Good luck

Forget the fact that this kid is too young to be juicing, he's making good progress naturally. At any age, if you're making good gains without the use of drugs, why not continue to train natural?

This kid is either trolling, incredibly stupid or both. My money is on both.

[bbh90]

Forget the fact that this kid is too young to be juicing, he's making good progress naturally. At any age, if you're making good gains without the use of drugs, why not continue to train natural?

This kid is either trolling, incredibly stupid or both. My money is on both.

im obviously incredibly stupid if i can make gains like that in such a short amount of time as well as put together such a good diet and routine

you dont have to agree with me doesnt make me dumb im probably of higher intellect than you actually

[Honkey_Kong]

im obviously incredibly stupid if i can make gains like that in such a short amount of time as well as put together such a good diet and routine

you dont have to agree with me doesnt make me dumb im probably of higher intellect than you actually

You are if you're getting good gains in a short time naturally and decide to throw caution in to the wind and juice. But whatever, start your cycle already. Just don't say nobody tried to warn you.

[Tefflondon]

just do test cyp or enenthate , shoot monday and friday 250mg a shot .. all you need for your first few cycles imo, I've done a few and I'm still running test at that dosage(d bol kick start sometimes, sustanon only right now) and this is the first time I've noticed less gains from previous cycles, but I have still put on about 10 lbs of lean mass in about 5 weeks. So yeah basically my advice would be test is all you need. As for age, I'm not gonna comment on it if you're set on doing it I will give you the advice I can just make sure to have some nolva and clomid on hand, be careful and enjoy the gains. (honestly not to stir anything up but give him a break, what were most kids doing when you were that age , probably drugs and partying hard, I'm not so sure moderate amount of steroids with a clean balanced diet and rigorous exercise routine is as bad as drinking and cocaine binges ! lol but like I said not trying to stir anything up or condone anything here either)

[marcus300]

believe me i have read this many times as well i have made this same post many times i cant honestly say im ever sure if im really going to do it i get the urge sometimes and then ill become more satisfied with where i am and the urge fades away i do appreciate your concern

sometimes i wonder if the reason i get these urges and post this is cuz i just want to know there is an option when im feeling less content with my progress i know theres always that way that second option that will ensure you reach your goal even if it does have the possible negative sides

what continuously bothers me about the whole age thing is that there are tons of athletes tons of college student tons of high school kids tons of random guys who just started going to the gym and want to get big fast tons of people in general that have done steroids or ph's in their lifetime well before 25 and all of them seem to be ok and even some have had their hormone levels checked to be fine

i think that the side effects are not overstate as in what can potentially go wrong but overstated in what can potential go wrong when used wisely when have you seen someone do everything right in their cycle and come out fukced up? i havnt as a matter of fact there were studies done on 18 year old guys who were administered testosterone with proper pct and they all came out fine

iv talked to multiple doctors and some yes will says stay away from it its all bad but they never give reasons to support why they say that and i have talked to other doctors that say the truth is ya things can go wrong but if used properly iv seen many many ppl be perfectly fine and they told me that what it comes down to is doing it the right way

not even that long ago when i was 17 i remember reading all about ph's and steroids so that was 3 and a half years ago and there wasnt even any talk of 25+ the age that was considered safe was 21+

not to mention the tons of people who come on here and say their 25+ and are going to cycle when really they are younger than that

my point is im not seeing it all add up wheres the evidence? and even if the evidence is there whats the context its used in? did the person do a terrible cycle with no pct and thats what your basing this on? cuz thats what im seeing most of the time people see some 18 year old kid who has no idea what hes doing do a test cycle then come in here wondering why he has a problem and everyone jumps on the age band waggon well maybe its cuz he did the whole cycle wrong im pretty sure it doesnt matter what age you are if you dont do an appropriate pct your gonna be screwed

im not saying your wrong im just saying id like to see some evidence cuz iv seen a lot of accusations with nothing to support them

my guess is most ppl on this board will think im just trying to justify using but in fact my post records alone will prove that me posting a thread talking about a first cycle is a pretty sh!tty chance its really going to happen

all im saying is id like to see what makes you so sure of this cuz i remember just a few weeks ago i was on here and some either 17 or 18 year old kid did a cycle of deca and i forgot if he even used test while on it and realized half way though that maybe he should have planned this out better came on here got advice for a proper pct and got his test levels check a while after pct and came back in the 900's

im just saying id like to see all these tons of people under 25 who are doing practical cycles with correct support sups and PCT that are having problems

You have asked a question and ive given you the correct advice and information for someone with your stats, now you can disregard this advice and wait or listen to the guys who tell you to cycle but these guys don't understand and have no idea about cycling, infact they probably around your age and have no regard to your health or damage and live by the code of "your going to do it anyway" bullshit. And if you think there aren't any teenagers or guys in thier 20's having issues even with proper pct and supps then you need to do alot more reading on this forum.

Don't just listen to what you want to hear, don't be small minded in thinking steroids/PH's are the only answer. Your excuses are very lame and if you want to risk low testosterone and limp dick to name just a couple then your more immature than I thought. Your willing to risk shutting down your HPTA at your age is reckless thinking and I feel I am wasting my time and effort even writing this so, I will leave your thread so you can listen to guys who are young and have no idea or knowledge and have one or two cycles under their belt, best of luck you will need it.

[cyounger100]

You have asked a question and ive given you the correct advice and information for someone with your stats, now you can disregard this advice and wait or listen to the guys who tell you to cycle but these guys don't understand and have no idea about cycling, infact they probably around your age and have no regard to your health or damage and live by the code of "your going to do it anyway" bullshit. And if you think there aren't any teenagers or guys in thier 20's having issues even with proper pct and supps then you need to do alot more reading on this forum.

Don't just listen to what you want to hear, don't be small minded in thinking steroids/PH's are the only answer. Your excuses are very lame and if you want to risk low testosterone and limp dick to name just a couple then your more immature than I thought. Your willing to risk shutting down your HPTA at your age is reckless thinking and I feel I am wasting my time and effort even writing this so, I will leave your thread so you can listen to guys who are young and have no idea or knowledge and have one or two cycles under their belt, best of luck you will need it.

once again he is goin too do what he wants too do if your goin too fcked yourself might as well act like a man and pin PH are garbage and are not worth the risk

[bbh90]

well see idk what im doin yet

[fender99]

@cyounger100 - every time you post anything i cant ever read the whole thing cause im too busy staring at your avy.

[bbh90]

You have asked a question and ive given you the correct advice and information for someone with your stats, now you can disregard this advice and wait or listen to the guys who tell you to cycle but these guys don't understand and have no idea about cycling, infact they probably around your age and have no regard to your health or damage and live by the code of "your going to do it anyway" bullshit. And if you think there aren't any teenagers or guys in thier 20's having issues even with proper pct and supps then you need to do alot more reading on this forum.

Don't just listen to what you want to hear, don't be small minded in thinking steroids/PH's are the only answer. Your excuses are very lame and if you want to risk low testosterone and limp dick to name just a couple then your more immature than I thought. Your willing to risk shutting down your HPTA at your age is reckless thinking and I feel I am wasting my time and effort even writing this so, I will leave your thread so you can listen to guys who are young and have no idea or knowledge and have one or two cycles under their belt, best of luck you will need it.

i understand what your saying i believe there are plenty of young guys on here being the ones saying to do it theres one thing id like to clear up though and maybe its my fault i guess i come in here posting about first cycles expecting everyone to be in the same mind frame as me where for me ya i would like to cycle but as i said its not a done deal iv posted it plenty of times and never went though

this isnt a matter of immaturity if i were immature i would just jump in and do it and i would have done it a long time ago probably with no idea what i was doing and would have never done the research and just mindlessly putting things in my body i guess you could call it immature knowing the possible consequences and still considering going through with it though i suppose that i look at it like iv equipped myself with the knowledge of how to do it plus its not like im a young boy im nearly 21 and so even though there is a chance that things can go wrong is see that as a small chance having properly prepared myself

that being said its still a chance and im not going to say its not immature to be willing to risk that even if just for a second. i may get caught up with the ppl who comment saying your dumb and immature for being willing to risk it and miss the bigger picture that people are really just trying to say why take an unnecessary risk

i suppose i try to justify it because i look at other guys my age and think well these guys are all going out getting black out drunk takin random drugs eating shitty diets not goin to the gym and think to myself well im eating right sleeping right not doin drugs or messing up my body with alcohol how bad could it really be for me to take a chance doing a cycle for something that is trying to better myself when all these other people are leading destructive lives without bettering themselves

that being said it doesnt really matter what everyone else is doing and i wouldnt call it a justification

i said already i dont know what im gonna do im not looking to please anyone on here but if i had to guess it probably wont go through and really ill probably post the same thread a few months from now

this isnt a matter of immaturity its a matter of being very driven towards my goals and willing to take chances to get there maybe that in itsself is the immature mind set you guys see but for the most part in our world today i dont see many ppl achieving great things doing it 100% by the books and especially when it comes to bodybuilding all im saying here is if you want to set yourself apart from the rest you usually have to take a chance and if you going to you can only do your best to minimize your risks

the above statement is not ment to be a justification maybe im wrong but i see it as the truth in todays world i mean all our role models every bodybuilder or every fitness model they are all using steroids and if i had to guess they have all been using from an early age its not just bodybuilders many of our political leaders make a lot of promises that they have no intention of keeping just to be elected even many of our business men are stepping on peoples fingers or selling themselves or others out just to get ahead

im getting off topic here and of course i should realize what i previously said that i doesnt matter what everyone else is doing but im just saying regadless of what i do theres very small chance i would actually do but regardless i do appreciate that you guys do try and help people make the right decision

[cyounger100]

@cyounger100 - every time you post anything i cant ever read the whole thing cause im too busy staring at your avy.

lolllllllllllll damn u