Amiridex debate: Bad for those who are not estro sensitive, good for others.

**PowerliftWill** · 04-02-2011, 12:50 AM

THIS WILL BE A LONG READ, BUT I THINK THE INFO AND VIEWPOINT MIGHT SPRING SOME INTEREST IN A FEW PEOPLE.

This is going to be an open debate on Amiridex and how people supposedly think it hinders gains on cycle. I think it may be true in those who are NOT estrogen sensitive, do not see anys signs of gyno from high test doses, bloating etc. After all it's obvious if you aren't sensitive to estrogen, then it means your body isn't converting nearly as much exogenous test into estrogen as those who are extremely prone to estrogen sides. I think alot of people over look this fact. Of course running an AI when not sensitive to estrogen would lower it to an unhealthy or gain hindering level because of ones own low convertion ratio of test to estro anyways that your body maintains. Alot of the exogenous test being injected is free in the body of those who experience hardly any sides, thus giving great gains and no need for an AI since the test to estrogen ratio is already high. Now what about those who are? The ones who get gyno easily, bloat easily, etc, like myself. This means ALOT of the exogenous test they are shooting is being bound up and converted to estrogen, not to mention high estrogen has been related with increasing levels of SHBG. True, estrogen is important for gains, but not the ridiculous amount being converted by someones body who is sensitive. What's the point of shooting 700mg test is half is going to convert to estrogen anyways? (Just an example). That much conversion is TOO much and would hinder gains all on it's own since there's way to much estrogen and not enough free test. In comes the AI. This would free up more test and keep estrogen at normal levels comparative of those who naturally have zero sides from test, if any. IMHO, for those who are sensitive or have a higher BF, etc, and AI is a great tool to enhance gains, and for those who aren't and have high test to estrogen ratios on there own, it would hinder there gains. It seems to me that an AI would create the same balance in someone who is sensitive to tons of aromatization, as those who do not need it on cycle, thus promoting more muscle gains, not just water and fat. Of course it's not as black and white as the above, but I think it's at least a big step in the right direction.

I hope that made sense, and i'd like those who are advanced to chime in and give there view as well. Nothing like a healthy debate to stimulate the mind. Thanks for reading.

**n00bs** · 04-02-2011, 07:05 AM

Oestroen doesnt always correlate to SHBG...

I think the important thing is to be sensible.. You dont want to be flatlining oestrogen. It has its place.

However some people simply have different hormone metabolism. So someone may require 0.5mg adex daily on NORMAL trt dosages of say tets enth and another person can shoot 500mg week no issues.

The important thing to do is rememeber you are unique. Monitor your bloods and take adex only when you need it and not for just no reason. Once again like everything with the body it depends on the person, there is no 1 size fits all.

**PowerliftWill** · 04-02-2011, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by n00bs

Oestroen doesnt always correlate to SHBG...

I think the important thing is to be sensible.. You dont want to be flatlining estrogen. It has its place.

However some people simply have different hormone metabolism. So someone may require 0.5mg adex daily on NORMAL trt dosages of say tets enth and another person can shoot 500mg week no issues.

The important thing to do is rememeber you are unique. Monitor your bloods and take adex only when you need it and not for just no reason. Once again like everything with the body it depends on the person, there is no 1 size fits all.

True, though you won't be flat lining estrogen by taking adex when you sprout bitch tits 4 weeks into a high test dosage cycle. If anything it would HELP, yes HELP your gains because that's too much estrogen floating around. You don't want half your exogenous test converting to estrogen, that's just counterproductive. Like you said, just be sensible.

The main reason I started the thread was for people who are really estrogen sensitive who think taking adex will hinder there gains because of all the shit people who aren't sensitive to estrogen tell them about adex. Yet, while adex hinders others, us people who are prone may benefit gains wise from finding the sweet spot of AI use to achieve a similar test:estro balance that those who are unprone have without it.

But BY ALL MEANS IF YOU AREN'T PRONE, PLEASE DON'T TAKE ADEX. IT WILL HINDER YOUR GAINS. You do need some estrogen from proper anabolism.

**biobest692** · 04-02-2011, 11:31 AM

....

**PowerliftWill** · 04-02-2011, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by bov188

What would you recommend for beginners who want to use a lower dosage of test, say 300mg/wk??? Would you even recommend an AI? Or would you recommend to start the cycle, see how things go, and then use your own judgment?

Absolutely your own judgment. If your sprouting new nipps 4 weeks in on 300mg/wk then obviously take an AI. If you just get puffy nips but nothing more, and it doesn't get any worse, then an AI probably won't be a good idea. Take me for example. I'm on 750mg/wk test right now and within a month I have some huge lumps under my nips that are being about to be taken care of by adex starting today and my libido is shit compared to how most people on test feel (wood all day, horny 24/7). Some people can take that amount and just have sensitive nipples and that's it. I NEED it and i'm pist I judged it too late thinking it would hinder my gains when in actuality, not taking care of high estro has hindered my gains and libido.

Some estro is needed, like the amount those who aren't sensitive have, thus no need for an AI. But the amount that I, or someone else who is really prone has is wayyyy too much and counterproductive.

**PowerliftWill** · 04-02-2011, 04:21 PM

BUMP...any of the vets out there who would care to shed some light on the topic?

**cro** · 04-02-2011, 06:41 PM

just makes more sence to run aromasin to me...

**PowerliftWill** · 04-02-2011, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by cro

just makes more sence to run aromasin to me...

I agree. I just meant an AI in general....both are great choices.

**cro** · 04-03-2011, 05:55 AM

always run ai .12.5 mg eod. aromasin . start there......

**PowerliftWill** · 04-03-2011, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by cro

always run ai .12.5 mg eod. aromasin. start there......

Personally I use amiridex because it's what I had on had. But i'd definitely give aromasin and go my next cycle.

Now, if by all means if you are NOT prone to sides like water retemtion, gyno, etc at all, then don't take an AI. It very well might hinder your gains. That's why so many started hating AI's. But if you are prone, that's just way to much estro your body is converting. Since I started amiridex yesterday my libido is already starting to go back up again. I'll continue to update.

**PowerliftWill** · 04-06-2011, 11:00 AM

just an update. Been on amiridex for 5 days now, 1mg/ed. And what do you know, my gains are coming again. SHBG is definitely lowered, my gyno is shrinking even while on cycle and my morning wood and sex drive is back in full swing. My weight is going up still and strength as well so I'm not sure where the "instant loss of strength" people sometimes report from amiridex is coming from UNLESS they aren't gyno and estro side prone.

Doing deads yesterday I thought I might have not progressed strength wise, but then i realized how sweaty my hands were and how the bar had almost no tread on it because of so much use, so i used straps (I hate using them, dont believe you should but I had no choice) and could easily do it. So im buying some chalk so I can continue to do so without straps.

**poppz** · 04-06-2011, 11:52 AM

So what determines gyno or estrogen prone? Higher BF?

**PowerliftWill** · 04-06-2011, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by poppz

So what determines gyno or estrogen prone? Higher BF?

There's a lot of things, high BF being one of them. The best way is to find out yourself. If you start a cycle of test and are sprouting bitch tits 4 weeks later, obviously you're prone. If you can do 1g test/wk and not even get puffy nips, then obviously you aren't prone. People want a simple answer if they are prone or not. It's mostly trial and error. 500mg/wk I only got puffy nips. Not a big deal, can live with it. No lumps. 750mg/wk and in 4 weeks I have huge lumps under my nipples that are going away now with use of Adex and I feel great. Not to mention I stopped eating so many oats and alot of my bloating is going away. A little fiber is good, but 15g just for breakfast is bad especially if its almost all soluble.

**Cravenmorehead** · 04-06-2011, 03:09 PM

I was taking 10mg of tamoxifen daily and doing well with strength gains and switched to Arimidex .5mg daily. (750 mg test cyp weekly)
I feel like shit now. Body aches, weaker, maybe a little more water retention also.
Any insights as to the why,hows of this?

**dec11** · 04-06-2011, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by PowerliftWill

just an update. Been on amiridex for 5 days now, 1mg/ed. And what do you know, my gains are coming again. SHBG is definitely lowered, my gyno is shrinking even while on cycle and my morning wood and sex drive is back in full swing. My weight is going up still and strength as well so I'm not sure where the "instant loss of strength" people sometimes report from amiridex is coming from UNLESS they aren't gyno and estro side prone.

Doing deads yesterday I thought I might have not progressed strength wise, but then i realized how sweaty my hands were and how the bar had almost no tread on it because of so much use, so i used straps (I hate using them, dont believe you should but I had no choice) and could easily do it. So im buying some chalk so I can continue to do so without straps.

you really shouldnt need that much, id cut that to .5 eod

**PowerliftWill** · 04-06-2011, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by Cravenmorehead

I was taking 10mg of tamoxifen daily and doing well with strength gains and switched to Arimidex .5mg daily. (750 mg test cyp weekly)
I feel like shit now. Body aches, weaker, maybe a little more water retention also.
Any insights as to the why,hows of this?

I need more info...are you gyno prone? Estro prone? If you aren't, why are you taking anything? if you are, lower the dose even more to find a sweet spot.

**PowerliftWill** · 04-06-2011, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by dec11

you really shouldnt need that much, id cut that to .5 eod

I am trust me. Im also lowering my test down to 500mg. For a week I bumped it up to 1g/wk just to see if 1mg adex would do it's job. FAIL...im bloated as of the last few days again. Dropping to 500mg and never doing more test then that. Going to add in my homebrew tren for the last 8 weeks of the cycle.

**PowerliftWill** · 04-06-2011, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by dec11

you really shouldnt need that much, id cut that to .5 eod

I am trust me. Im also lowering my test down to 500mg. For a week I bumped it up to 1g/wk just to see if 1mg adex would do it's job. FAIL...im bloated as of the last few days again. Dropping to 500mg and never doing more test then that. Going to add in my homebrew tren for the last 8 weeks of the cycle.

**Cravenmorehead** · 04-06-2011, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by PowerliftWill

I need more info...are you gyno prone? Estro prone? If you aren't, why are you taking anything? if you are, lower the dose even more to find a sweet spot.

More estro prone.....water retention. I was worried about the tomaxifen being harder on the body than Arimidex . But the nolva was keeping me dry....much less bloat than the Arimidex. Maybe Aromasin is the drug of choice
750 mg test cyp weekly.....20 nolvadex ......then i switched to Arimidex......switching back to nolva......just felt better, stronger and drier......go figure

**PowerliftWill** · 04-07-2011, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by Cravenmorehead

More estro prone.....water retention. I was worried about the tomaxifen being harder on the body than Arimidex . But the nolva was keeping me dry....much less bloat than the Arimidex. Maybe Aromasin is the drug of choice
750 mg test cyp weekly.....20 nolvadex......then i switched to Arimidex......switching back to nolva......just felt better, stronger and drier......go figure

I wondering that too. Im starting to get bloated again on amiridex. I think im just really sensitive to high dose test. Im dropping back down to 500mg possibly lower like 250mg when I start my homebrew tren here in a bit

**n00bs** · 04-07-2011, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by poppz

So what determines gyno or estrogen prone? Higher BF?

^^

Dysbiosis, problems with phase 1,2,3 liver detoxification and then removal via bowel.

**PowerliftWill** · 04-08-2011, 11:14 AM

Quick update....since Im going to drop the test down to 250mg/wk and add my homebrew tren for the remainder of the cycle, I wanted to experiment with amiridex in high dosages to see it's effects. I had in total 4mg yesterday (no need to flame, won't to be doing this continually), and this morning I have morning wood and a sex drive like no other. Maybe im really prone to estrogen sides but this amiridex is making my sex drive crazy, when at that dose for most it would cripple them. Also my joints are a tiny bit ache. Mostly my wrists though. My guess was my E2 was probably around 100+ and is why this much amiridex is only helping me for the time being. I now know I can't run test over 500mg/wk and would rather keep it at 250mg/wk and adding other compounds to do the work. This just goes to show everyones body is different.

The most important part of this game were all in is to find what works for YOU.