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  1. #1
    cageit is offline New Member
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    mma stack with eq

    okay...I want some advice on what to stack with eq suitable to mma. I have changed my direction somewhat, so I decided to make a new post. I am 160 walk around and fight at 145. I originally was only going to run eq until I researched and received advice from this site. I am one low dose injection of eq into it. I have come into some options on what to add with eq. keep in mind that I do not want to add a lot of weight do to weight class, need to continue high cardio and circuit conditioning, some oxygen depletion training. I am in my early thirties, first cycle, will run a low to medium dose, want to speed recoveries of re-occurring injuries I have trained through for years that are getting worse. I could possibly be contracted to fight again at any point in the next 3-5 months so need to consider a stack that won't kill cardio, bloat, or make heart rate crazy. commission testing is not an issue. possibilities thrown at me are andropen , test 200, var...

    what do you guys think?

  2. #2
    scotty51312's Avatar
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    age? cyle experience?

  3. #3
    THE-DET-OAK is offline Banned
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    regardless of the AAS, there is a good chance it will inhibit cardio in 1 way or the other. For instance with EQ the pumps might inhibit your cardio.

    so why do you want to use aas if you dont need to gain weight? thats what they are for, they aid in building lean mass.............................

  4. #4
    cageit is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotty51312 View Post
    age? cyle experience?
    early thirties...first cycle. sort of a last resort to keep going another year or two. I want to increase and speed up recovery and healing and build/tighten lean muscle, specifically around joints/neck/back injuries (if such a product).

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    THE-DET-OAK is offline Banned
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    GH would be a much better option for you. if you want to do a cycle to aid in collagen synthesis, a TRT dose of test with EQ, var,primo or deca would most likely relieve some pain. the problem is everything goes right back to normal when done.

  6. #6
    cageit is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE-DET-OAK View Post
    GH would be a much better option for you. if you want to do a cycle to aid in collagen synthesis, a TRT dose of test with EQ, var,primo or deca would most likely relieve some pain. the problem is everything goes right back to normal when done.
    I am fine if it all comes back...I expect it. I am just needing to experiment (so to speak) with a possible stack to get me through a training camp and to the fight. then I would not mess with anything until next training camp (if it did what I needed).
    what would you suggest for the trt? I am only familiar with what that abbreviation is.

  7. #7
    Honkey_Kong's Avatar
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    Well, first of all, don't you MMA guys get drug tested? But what he means by a TRT dose is a low dose of testosterone . however, I don't agree with that cycle at all he suggested. How much cycling experience do you have?

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    higgy is offline Associate Member
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    ^^^^^^^ Exactly, what about your piss test?

  9. #9
    cageit is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honkey_Kong View Post
    Well, first of all, don't you MMA guys get drug tested? But what he means by a TRT dose is a low dose of testosterone. however, I don't agree with that cycle at all he suggested. How much cycling experience do you have?
    there is better detailed info about my situation a few posts above...first cycle...older in age...going for recovery speed first over size(although i know it it will happen).

    no testing in the lower level pro circuits.

    one concern i have is killing myself cardio-wise. lets say i am in the middle of a 12-15 week cycle or what not and i get a short notice fight notice that would be a better fight choice then one later...i dont want to have screwed my gas tank in a major way.

    most of my research seems to be leading me to the eq with either anavar OR test prop. thoughts or concerns?

  10. #10
    cageit is offline New Member
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    ...oh yeah...and research is also suggesting to go light on the dosages. i think one quote was to do half or a third of what most bodybuilders suggest.

  11. #11
    THE-DET-OAK is offline Banned
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    Increase skeletal muscle & collagen synthesis with certain AAS

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    (originally posted by AnimalMass)

    While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

    Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

    Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

    Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

    You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

    Deca , Equipoise , Anavar , and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

    While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

    To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

    Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood.

    Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

    Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

    Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

    These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle Clomid use. Here they are:

    Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

    Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

    GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

    Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

    Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.

  12. #12
    QuieTSToRM33's Avatar
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    I'd stay away from EQ if you're at risk of being tested ... you most likely will get popped.

  13. #13
    cageit is offline New Member
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    @the-det-oak~~ awesome info. thanks for taking the time to post that. that helps me a lot.

    @i love muay thai~~ no risk of testing. i have never been tested through the pro organizations i have fought for. and for the way off chance that changed...risk to reward is worth, it as i am on my way out with my body begenning to tell me its almost time to quit anyway. i am kinda getting old for the sport and it isn't my "relied on" source of income. we cant all be randy couture's fighting til we are 47

  14. #14
    Honkey_Kong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cageit View Post
    @the-det-oak~~ awesome info. thanks for taking the time to post that. that helps me a lot.

    @i love muay thai~~ no risk of testing. i have never been tested through the pro organizations i have fought for. and for the way off chance that changed...risk to reward is worth, it as i am on my way out with my body begenning to tell me its almost time to quit anyway. i am kinda getting old for the sport and it isn't my "relied on" source of income. we cant all be randy couture's fighting til we are 47
    For your first cycle, I think a test only cycle would be good. test prop is fine for that, but you're going to be pinning yourself quite often. But before you do any cycle, get bloodwork done to first see if you have any health problems going in to it and to see what your test level is at naturally (so you know if you're recovered after PCT).

  15. #15
    cageit is offline New Member
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    well...I'm probably a little late for the level testing, as I am a little over one week into the eq (2 [email protected]/dose a week apart). my original plan was to run only the eq at low dose for 15 weeks to see if it did what I wanted (it was free). now, I am close to choosing a test to stack also low. I planed on the level testing well after cycle, pct, and after next fight.

    thanks for the continued advice. may the 4th be with you.

  16. #16
    workhardgethuge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cageit View Post
    there is better detailed info about my situation a few posts above...first cycle...older in age...going for recovery speed first over size(although i know it it will happen).

    no testing in the lower level pro circuits.

    one concern i have is killing myself cardio-wise. lets say i am in the middle of a 12-15 week cycle or what not and i get a short notice fight notice that would be a better fight choice then one later...i dont want to have screwed my gas tank in a major way.

    most of my research seems to be leading me to the eq with either anavar OR test prop. thoughts or concerns?
    This is BS, Any state with an athletic commision will test at the pro level, ameteur can be a different story...the fact that you'd cheat makes you a loser in my opinion...the fact that you'd do this tells me you don't respect the sport. And before you run your mouth back to me I have fought 14 times and train with Miguel Torres...but I never touched the stuff while I was fighting.
    Last edited by workhardgethuge; 05-04-2011 at 10:41 PM.

  17. #17
    Honkey_Kong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by workhardgethuge View Post
    This is BS, Any state with an athletic commision will test at the pro level, ameteur can be a different story...the fact that you'd cheat makes you a loser in my opinion...the fact that you'd do this tells me you don't respect the sport. And before you run your mouth back to me I have fought 14 times and train with Miguel Torres...but I never touched the stuff while I was fighting.
    ^^ I agree with this fully

    Quote Originally Posted by cageit View Post
    well...I'm probably a little late for the level testing, as I am a little over one week into the eq (2 [email protected]/dose a week apart). my original plan was to run only the eq at low dose for 15 weeks to see if it did what I wanted (it was free). now, I am close to choosing a test to stack also low. I planed on the level testing well after cycle, pct, and after next fight.

    thanks for the continued advice. may the 4th be with you.
    I don't know how some of you guys on here manage to find free steroids , when everyone I know in real life (who uses them) pays for them. Anyways, if the dose is too low, it won't do shit for you and you're natural test production is going to be shut down from using the eq.

  18. #18
    cageit is offline New Member
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    I have no reason to get on here and lie about testing and being given a steroid for free. those 2 details have nothing to do with my original question. that is how it is....sorry if my situation and state regs upsets you.

    @workhardgethuge- I really dont feel the need to "run my mouth". I thought this was a site for questions and answers...not venting frustrations about users and different state sport regulations. I can't imagine that I am the only older athlete looking for enhancement this way. however, it is strange to me that you name drop, have fought 14 fights (suggesting that you have been in the sport many years), and on this site...but at same time say you never juiced while in the sport. I would be more than happy to debate you on the sport and steroid use in the sport on anther, more appropriate site or thread. i'd like to keep this one open for the original topic and questions.

  19. #19
    workhardgethuge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cageit View Post
    I have no reason to get on here and lie about testing and being given a steroid for free. those 2 details have nothing to do with my original question. that is how it is....sorry if my situation and state regs upsets you.

    @workhardgethuge- I really dont feel the need to "run my mouth". I thought this was a site for questions and answers...not venting frustrations about users and different state sport regulations. I can't imagine that I am the only older athlete looking for enhancement this way. however, it is strange to me that you name drop, have fought 14 fights (suggesting that you have been in the sport many years), and on this site...but at same time say you never juiced while in the sport. I would be more than happy to debate you on the sport and steroid use in the sport on anther, more appropriate site or thread. i'd like to keep this one open for the original topic and questions.
    You're not the only older athlete looking for this, but MMA is different...at least if you truly respect the sport. I have been in the sport since the mid ninety's and have fought the like of Dan Henderson, I won't mention my name, but you could narrow it down using sherdog's fighter finder...but I never touched AAS while doing MMA competitivly. I recently started to train, spar and roll again to help lose weight that i put on. Its solely for fun and nothing more. If you want to use AAS go right ahead, but don't be a cheat and a liar. People like Barnett, Sherk, Bonnar, should be banned for good, their BS is bad for the sport.

  20. #20
    rooster.cogburn is offline New Member
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    I have been poaching for very similar answers off of several sites. I came across this thread that was good. I thought you might be interested:
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-eq-only-cycle

    It looks like there was some good info coming here until that guy chimed in with his strong opinions having nothing do with the questions. I would like to follow what you decide.

  21. #21
    rooster.cogburn is offline New Member
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    I have been poaching for very similar answers off of several sites. I came across this thread that was good. I thought you might be interested:
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-eq-only-cycle

    It looks like there was some good info coming here until that guy chimed in with his strong opinions having nothing do with the questions. I would like to follow what you decide.

  22. #22
    MR10X is offline Recognized Member Winner - $100
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    Quote Originally Posted by cageit View Post
    well...I'm probably a little late for the level testing, as I am a little over one week into the eq (2 [email protected]/dose a week apart). my original plan was to run only the eq at low dose for 15 weeks to see if it did what I wanted (it was free). now, I am close to choosing a test to stack also low. I planed on the level testing well after cycle, pct, and after next fight.

    thanks for the continued advice. may the 4th be with you.
    My son who's 36 just did a tournament a few months ago,i had him doing 300mg EQ and 300mg Test E twice a week. His breathing was very good.We did a lot of weight training doing sets increasing the weights on each set to build up his endurance (increasing the demand as he gets fatigued).He did no weight traing the last week just worked on his sparing.

  23. #23
    cageit is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR10X View Post
    My son who's 36 just did a tournament a few months ago,i had him doing 300mg EQ and 300mg Test E twice a week. His breathing was very good.We did a lot of weight training doing sets increasing the weights on each set to build up his endurance (increasing the demand as he gets fatigued).He did no weight traing the last week just worked on his sparing.
    thanks mr 10 x- any details of that cycle would be great as far as cycle length, sides, pct, weight gain, etc. did he have any injuries/ailments that were effected by the cycle? thanks again.

  24. #24
    jeallybean78 is offline Junior Member
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    Great info DET-OAK

  25. #25
    MR10X is offline Recognized Member Winner - $100
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    he was on for 8 weeks,he tolerates test and Eq very well,no sides to speak of.He had to get down to 164 for the class he was in,he dieted down eating about 2500 calories a day. on fri he weighed 163,on sat he weighed 172......he did lose some muscle to make that weight class and was very lean,but still strong.Some of the guys he had matches with commented on how strong he was.He was squating 225 for 15 reps.he had a knee that was tweaked a little but that happened when he was sparing and not weight lifting.It didnt really bother him during the matches.He didnt do PCT,on short cycles like that he recovers with no problem,and we usually take a week off after a 8 week cycle,and then easy for a little while then work up to hard training when we start another cycle
    Last edited by MR10X; 05-09-2011 at 09:03 AM.

  26. #26
    cageit is offline New Member
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    much appreciated mr 10. might have more inquiries for you over next several weeks.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR10X View Post
    My son who's 36 just did a tournament a few months ago,i had him doing 300mg EQ and 300mg Test E twice a week. His breathing was very good.We did a lot of weight training doing sets increasing the weights on each set to build up his endurance (increasing the demand as he gets fatigued).He did no weight traing the last week just worked on his sparing.
    I'd love to see someone natural thrash him. Here's to wishing someone gets him in a heel hook and takes his leg home. As a father you should be ashamed.

  28. #28
    cantbetouched is offline Associate Member
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    Im not about to read all of the post but if testing is the issue look into test no ester/ test susp. it's out of your body in 12 - 24 max hours. lots of athletes use this before fights big secret thet dont let out. haha

  29. #29
    THE-DET-OAK is offline Banned
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    ...................
    Last edited by THE-DET-OAK; 05-10-2011 at 12:48 AM.

  30. #30
    Honkey_Kong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE-DET-OAK View Post
    ...................
    Go ahead, say what you were thinking.

  31. #31
    cro's Avatar
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    everyone is on or on during down time. ive trained with alot of top fighters who use. i train under militich fighting systems.you obviously dont know to much about this .but i respect your opinion.

  32. #32
    nilrac is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by workhardgethuge View Post
    I'd love to see someone natural thrash him. Here's to wishing someone gets him in a heel hook and takes his leg home. As a father you should be ashamed.
    I'd say atleast 70% of the top level are using -or have used- some kind of performance enhancing drug(s) in MMA.

    That's a mighty big high horse to be on considering the forum you have joined. This forum is about the use of AAS, didn't you notice? Irrespective of who is using them or why, they come here for information and advice. Because really, should anybody be using them except those prescribed them for medical reasons? IMO the morality of it has no place in this thread. Start your thread about it if you feel the need.

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    THE-DET-OAK is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honkey_Kong View Post
    Go ahead, say what you were thinking.
    LOL it was late and i ithink i read it wrong. i said really? i didnt know guys would chance going into the fight shut- down, when i realized it was prolly a joke, and maybe he meant right before fight. i know nothing about fighting for sport.

  34. #34
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    I don't believe its 70%, but that said I would not use them while fighting, my short lived career is over, my steroid use is for my own personal gain and it doesn't affect anyone else. Its cheating when you use something to gain an advantage over your opponent...something I'd never do...when I won or lost it was because of nothing but my hard work or lack there of.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by cro View Post
    everyone is on or on during down time. ive trained with alot of top fighters who use. i train under militich fighting systems.you obviously dont know to much about this .but i respect your opinion.
    I've spent lots of time in Bettendorf at MFS, enjoyed lots of time with Horn, Rothwell, Markem, etc...not once did i ever see any MFS guys touch the stuff.

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    im 38 yrs old and just did my 1st cycle bro.i have a very high level of wrestling and have trained with many of the top wrestlers in mma today and have known plenty to cycle . .

  37. #37
    spiderman7 is offline New Member
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    I hate interrupting and getting involved in the arguing stuff. I will give my opinion on what is good for an athlete looking for recovery and the ability to train hard. The idea is to keep weight gain to a minimum, your just improving recovery and hopefully adding in some extra crit. Every endurance athlete with experience will tell you EPO is king. Nothing compares to a high crit level in any sport that relies heavily on endurance. If you do not want to go that route then try like someone mentioned a trt dose of test for recovery reason. You only want to be in the high normal threshold for recovery reasons and maybe extra some extra crit. Keep water bloat to a minimum, since bloat seems to hinder performance. The other option if your not getting tested is to add in Deca at a low dose, 100-150mg for added for joint and healing benefits. EQ is good at a low dose also but in my opinion not as good as deca. If your looking for the edge before a fight maybe try some Halo to give u the added aggression or ECA stack. If not test alone at a low dose will work wonders.

  38. #38
    cageit is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiderman7 View Post
    I hate interrupting and getting involved in the arguing stuff. I will give my opinion on what is good for an athlete looking for recovery and the ability to train hard. The idea is to keep weight gain to a minimum, your just improving recovery and hopefully adding in some extra crit. Every endurance athlete with experience will tell you EPO is king. Nothing compares to a high crit level in any sport that relies heavily on endurance. If you do not want to go that route then try like someone mentioned a trt dose of test for recovery reason. You only want to be in the high normal threshold for recovery reasons and maybe extra some extra crit. Keep water bloat to a minimum, since bloat seems to hinder performance. The other option if your not getting tested is to add in Deca at a low dose, 100-150mg for added for joint and healing benefits. EQ is good at a low dose also but in my opinion not as good as deca. If your looking for the edge before a fight maybe try some Halo to give u the added aggression or ECA stack. If not test alone at a low dose will work wonders.
    thanks for getting this thread back. workhardgethuge did a good job taking this off track. I am leaning towards the trt dose of test, but I am getting mixed research on what to choose. popular advice for this situation has been prop, enth, susp, andropene, and cyp. considering it's just going to be a trt dose and being first cycle...which would be best choice?

  39. #39
    AbusedYam is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cageit View Post
    there is better detailed info about my situation a few posts above...first cycle...older in age...going for recovery speed first over size(although i know it it will happen).

    no testing in the lower level pro circuits.

    one concern i have is killing myself cardio-wise. lets say i am in the middle of a 12-15 week cycle or what not and i get a short notice fight notice that would be a better fight choice then one later...i dont want to have screwed my gas tank in a major way.

    most of my research seems to be leading me to the eq with either anavar OR test prop. thoughts or concerns?
    No testing even at the pro level? thats crazy! i never knew that

  40. #40
    spiderman7 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cageit View Post
    thanks for getting this thread back. workhardgethuge did a good job taking this off track. I am leaning towards the trt dose of test, but I am getting mixed research on what to choose. popular advice for this situation has been prop, enth, susp, andropene, and cyp. considering it's just going to be a trt dose and being first cycle...which would be best choice?
    If your not worried about testing then go with something shot once or twice a week. U need to stay below 200mg per week for sure. Most endurance men say 150 is high. You cannot be sure unless you get blood work done. Low dose deca and test will having moving like a champ. Here is a good read if your interested.

    http://outside.away.com/outside/body...ug_test_1.html

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