Anyone successfully come off TRT?

[Supertotal]

Humph. It was my understanding that the body will always seek equilibrium. Ive heard of people being on cycle for years straight, come off and run an aggressive PCT and have their levels above the 500 range. Maybe everyones diff.

The thing is about that, who's to say they weren't naturally closer to 1000 before AAS? I did one decent cycle that most here would consider "mild" and another that was definitely mild, and after PCT I still feel "low". The symptoms are there, if slight, most of them anyway, but then again it has only been 2 months off since the last cap of a much longer cycle. As I said, I still feel "low", but I'm still raging like a lunatic in the gym and have testosterone levels most guys dream about. My levels may not be where I am used to them being, but that was not an average level to begin with.

It would be hard to convince a doctor to even do a test on me from what I've heard anecdotally. I can walk into the gym and olympic squat 500lbs + on any given day, and nail my wife that same night, but I still feel a bit subdued.

I always wondering if you could convince your doctor to prescribe enough of a dose to bring you right to the far (high) end of the testosterone range, if you had naturally high test? I suppose thats a question for another thread though.

[APIs]

The thing is about that, who's to say they weren't naturally closer to 1000 before AAS?

It would be hard to convince a doctor to even do a test on me from what I've heard anecdotally.

I always wondering if you could convince your doctor to prescribe enough of a dose to bring you right to the far (high) end of the testosterone range, if you had naturally high test? I suppose thats a question for another thread though.

Even in your teens & 20's I doubt many people are in the 1000 range anyway, which I'm sure some on here might argue with.

What were your Test levels from BW on & off cycle?

"High end of the testosterone range"? Typical Total Range is 200-800+ depending on the lab that does the BW. Many people on simple TRT of 200 mgs Cyp per week are already walking around with Total Levels in excess of 1500. Some on only 100 mgs/week are 700+ total. It varies person-to-person. People on TRT already have higher levels than most people you'd see on the streets.

[nguadagno]

Humph. It was my understanding that the body will always seek equilibrium. Ive heard of people being on cycle for years straight, come off and run an aggressive PCT and have their levels above the 500 range. Maybe everyones diff.

even someone who does like 3 cycles? or is the average cycler to you someone who does cycles maybe once a year or every two years for 20 years? i dont plan on being a every year cycler when i start, i plan on doing like maybe 2 or 3 cycles in my late twenties from probably 25-30 and then stopping when im happy with my size, and then just maintain best i can

[layeazy]

TRT seems to work wonders for people.

If fertility is a fear of yours you want to read up alot about HCG that will help you solve some of the fears you have about TRT.

[FCVtec]

Without insurance it would be no more than a small car payment every 3 months. all supplies included.

[FCVtec]

even someone who does like 3 cycles? or is the average cycler to you someone who does cycles maybe once a year or every two years for 20 years? i dont plan on being a every year cycler when i start, i plan on doing like maybe 2 or 3 cycles in my late twenties from probably 25-30 and then stopping when im happy with my size, and then just maintain best i can

99.5 % of people that cycle dont stop at 3 cycles. Unless they stop working out and get into drugs or just get lazy and become a average fat joe... If you stay in the gym I seriously doubt you will stay at 3 cycles. Just my opinion, seen it over and over.

And BTW buddy is on TRT 200mgs.week Test C and his BW can back 1300 test total lol.

[Far from massive]

To those who posted saying they are thinking of starting TRT because they have symptoms of low Testosterone or anyone reading this thread. Do not start on TRT solely because you have symptoms that parallel those of low Testosterone . At a minimum get a full blood panel first to see if indeed you do have low test and to make sure you do not have other causes of the symptoms. While an Endo may prescribe TRT due to the presence of symtoms despite a test level that is not all that low, they will never prescribe TRT without first doing a diagnostic workup to make sure that there are not other causes.

[warchild]

I tried to come off twice. it was not so bad the first time. But the second time was a few weeks ago and it really fd with me. Very bad depression and got sick.

[Twist]

A lot of guys seem to be missing marcus' (and others') point.

I always wondering if you could convince your doctor to prescribe enough of a dose to bring you right to the far (high) end of the testosterone range, if you had naturally high test? I suppose thats a question for another thread though.

If you had a test level of 800 NATURALLY and you want to get to 1,000, taking testosterone (gel/patch/injection whatever) cannot add to the 800. At the least (I am guessing) your body would seek equilibrium by lowering your natural production to 600 if you are supplementing the extra 200 bringing you back to 800. Most likely the situation will be that your body detects testosterone in excess of what it produces and will EVENTUALLY shut you down completely so that your body produces ZERO and you have to take the rest by injection or whatever means you like.

I read a study that came from China or Japan or something with people who were given trt and I believe all of them became infertile eventually. After the trt ceased some of them were able to get back to normal ranges in a year but some never did.

[nguadagno]

i just feel like i wouldnt want to get THAT big by doing like so many cycles, and its not the fertility that bothers me its the depression and not being able to keep getting bigger or maintain cause of low test

[turkishexpress]

Without insurance it would be no more than a small car payment every 3 months. all supplies included.

Its less than that. With a Walgreens discount card you get 10ml at 200mg/ml of Test C for $74. For TRT purposes that's 2.5 month's worth. So technically you're spending $30/month. So yeah it's very cheap...

[Twist]

Its less than that. With a Walgreens discount card you get 10ml at 200mg/ml of Test C for $74. For TRT purposes that's 2.5 month's worth. So technically you're spending $30/month. So yeah it's very cheap...

That's what I pay. Insurance doesn't cover it but walgreens helps out.

[slimshady01]

Its less than that. With a Walgreens discount card you get 10ml at 200mg/ml of Test C for $74. For TRT purposes that's 2.5 month's worth. So technically you're spending $30/month. So yeah it's very cheap...

Is this prescribed from an anti aging clinic?

[Flier]

You can't take replacement testosterone therapy and not get shut down eventually. Your body as a negative feedback loop what regulates testosterone in the body, if its detects testosterone even at low dose you will get suppression of your natural test and eventually shutdown of your HPTA will occur.

Disagree Marcus.

The Pit constantly detects Test in the body, it detects it´s own production.
When the levels decrease, the Pit pulsates LH to the Testies to up the production.
This normally is most active during sleep. Hence early morning our Test levels are the highest.
This is the time when Androgel is admin. to give an extra boost of test. As the day progresses, the gel will loose it´s effect/potency, along with the body´s natural 24hr cycle. By evening the gel is completely out of the system, and lower test is again detected by the Pit, which will again pulsate LH.
It is very important to only admin gel early morning to follow the body´s natural test cycle.

[nguadagno]

anybody have any thoughts on my question? do all users end up on TRT if, say 5 time use

[marcus300]

Disagree Marcus.

The Pit constantly detects Test in the body, it detects it´s own production.
When the levels decrease, the Pit pulsates LH to the Testies to up the production.
This normally is most active during sleep. Hence early morning our Test levels are the highest.
This is the time when Androgel is admin. to give an extra boost of test. As the day progresses, the gel will loose it´s effect/potency, along with the body´s natural 24hr cycle. By evening the gel is completely out of the system, and lower test is again detected by the Pit, which will again pulsate LH.
It is very important to only admin gel early morning to follow the body´s natural test cycle.

From what I know and have read your wrong.

Androgel is taken by men who have low testosterone levels so you aren't going to get guys who have normal levels using androgel, so anyone who is using it will have low to zero testosterone levels.

The HPTA has a lot of androgen receptors for sensing the amount of testosterone in the body, when to many are activated there is a suppression or shutdown in GnRH release. You can not get away from the negative feedback loop, if you use TRT you are going to shutdown your natural test production you cant keep it going by using androgel in the mornings and hopefully it will be out of the system for your natural testosterone to kick-in at night. The users wouldn't have any natural testosterone anyway that's why they are using TRT and if he did have just low levels it will be shut down anyway because of the negative feedback loop.

If you read the FDA information of androgel it will explain that using it over 30 days at a single daily application will maintain serum concentration over a 24 hours period so it wont piggy back your own testosterone levels just in the morning so your natural test kicks in, it releases over a 24 hour peroid

FDA imformation - Androgel
AndroGel delivers physiologic amounts of testosterone, producing circulating testosterone concentrations that approximate normal levels (298 – 1043 ng/dL) seen in healthy men. AndroGel provides continuous transdermal delivery of testosterone for 24 hours following a single application to intact, clean, dry skin of the shoulders, upper arms and/or abdomen.

AndroGel is a hydroalcoholic formulation that dries quickly when applied to the skin surface. The skin serves as a reservoir for the sustained release of testosterone into the systemic circulation. Approximately 10% of the testosterone dose applied on the skin surface from AndroGel is absorbed into systemic circulation. Therefore, 5 g and 10 g of AndroGel systemically deliver approximately 5 mg and 10 mg of testosterone, respectively. In a study with 10 g of AndroGel, all patients showed an increase in serum testosterone within 30 minutes, and eight of nine patients had a serum testosterone concentration within normal range by 4 hours after the initial application. Absorption of testosterone into the blood continues for the entire 24-hour dosing interval. Serum concentrations approximate the steady-state level by the end of the first 24 hours and are at steady state by the second or third day of dosing.

With single daily applications of AndroGel, follow-up measurements 30, 90 and 180 days after starting treatment have confirmed that serum testosterone concentrations are generally maintained within the eugonadal range. Figure 1 summarizes the 24-hour pharmacokinetic profiles of testosterone for hypogonadal men (<300 ng/dL) maintained on 5 g or 10 g of AndroGel for 30 days. The average (± SD) daily testosterone concentration produced by AndroGel 10 g on Day 30 was 792 (± 294) ng/dL and by AndroGel 5 g 566 (± 262) ng/dL.

Figure 1: Mean (± SD) Steady-State Serum Testosterone Concentrations on Day 30 in Patients Applying AndroGel Once Daily



When AndroGel treatment is discontinued after achieving steady state, serum testosterone levels remain in the normal range for 24 to 48 hours but return to their pretreatment levels by the fifth day after the last application.

[jtuner77]

anybody have any thoughts on my question? do all users end up on TRT if, say 5 time use

No....is the answer. Not all but some, don't think there is one defining thing that causes you to get a low Testosterone level

[Flier]

From what I know and have read your wrong.

Androgel is taken by men who have low testosterone levels so you aren't going to get guys who have normal levels using androgel, so anyone who is using it will have low to zero testosterone levels.

The HPTA has a lot of androgen receptors for sensing the amount of testosterone in the body, when to many are activated there is a suppression or shutdown in GnRH release. You can not get away from the negative feedback loop, if you use TRT you are going to shutdown your natural test production you cant keep it going by using androgel in the mornings and hopefully it will be out of the system for your natural testosterone to kick-in at night. The users wouldn't have any natural testosterone anyway that's why they are using TRT and if he did have just low levels it will be shut down anyway because of the negative feedback loop.

If you read the FDA information of androgel it will explain that using it over 30 days at a single daily application will maintain serum concentration over a 24 hours period so it wont piggy back your own testosterone levels just in the morning so your natural test kicks in, it releases over a 24 hour peroid

FDA imformation - Androgel
AndroGel delivers physiologic amounts of testosterone, producing circulating testosterone concentrations that approximate normal levels (298 – 1043 ng/dL) seen in healthy men. AndroGel provides continuous transdermal delivery of testosterone for 24 hours following a single application to intact, clean, dry skin of the shoulders, upper arms and/or abdomen.

AndroGel is a hydroalcoholic formulation that dries quickly when applied to the skin surface. The skin serves as a reservoir for the sustained release of testosterone into the systemic circulation. Approximately 10% of the testosterone dose applied on the skin surface from AndroGel is absorbed into systemic circulation. Therefore, 5 g and 10 g of AndroGel systemically deliver approximately 5 mg and 10 mg of testosterone, respectively. In a study with 10 g of AndroGel, all patients showed an increase in serum testosterone within 30 minutes, and eight of nine patients had a serum testosterone concentration within normal range by 4 hours after the initial application. Absorption of testosterone into the blood continues for the entire 24-hour dosing interval. Serum concentrations approximate the steady-state level by the end of the first 24 hours and are at steady state by the second or third day of dosing.

With single daily applications of AndroGel, follow-up measurements 30, 90 and 180 days after starting treatment have confirmed that serum testosterone concentrations are generally maintained within the eugonadal range. Figure 1 summarizes the 24-hour pharmacokinetic profiles of testosterone for hypogonadal men (<300 ng/dL) maintained on 5 g or 10 g of AndroGel for 30 days. The average (± SD) daily testosterone concentration produced by AndroGel 10 g on Day 30 was 792 (± 294) ng/dL and by AndroGel 5 g 566 (± 262) ng/dL.

Figure 1: Mean (± SD) Steady-State Serum Testosterone Concentrations on Day 30 in Patients Applying AndroGel Once Daily



When AndroGel treatment is discontinued after achieving steady state, serum testosterone levels remain in the normal range for 24 to 48 hours but return to their pretreatment levels by the fifth day after the last application.

Ok....
This is not how I have understood it.

I did a few months of 100mg/ED Testogel last year.
It raised my Test from 15 to 24 (8-35)
And I saw great results.
Guys in the gym asking if I was on cycle.

As a sidenote, I just finished 12 weeks of 500mg/week Cyp.
For me, the effects/sides/results of Gel outweighs the effects/sides/results of Test pinning cycle.
Ofcourse, important to mention is at 42, my goals are to maintain a healthy, muscular, athletic appearance. Not to bulk.

I just received a new product from my Doc, an Androgel pump.
I will try this after I have recovered from my Cyp cycle. And do BW before, during and after, to see how the Androgel affects my Test and particularly my LH.

[Kdub]

For me, the effects/sides/results of Gel outweighs the effects/sides/results of Test pinning cycle.

What were the sides you disliked using Cyp and why do you prefer the gel?

[nguadagno]

No....is the answer. Not all but some, don't think there is one defining thing that causes you to get a low Testosterone level

yeah but i feel like everyone on here is on TRT haha thats the only thing really turning me off from AAS when im older

[Supertotal]

If you had a test level of 800 NATURALLY and you want to get to 1,000, taking testosterone (gel/patch/injection whatever) cannot add to the 800. At the least (I am guessing) your body would seek equilibrium by lowering your natural production to 600 if you are supplementing the extra 200 bringing you back to 800. Most likely the situation will be that your body detects testosterone in excess of what it produces and will EVENTUALLY shut you down completely so that your body produces ZERO and you have to take the rest by injection or whatever means you like.

I read a study that came from China or Japan or something with people who were given trt and I believe all of them became infertile eventually. After the trt ceased some of them were able to get back to normal ranges in a year but some never did.

Actually, my question was already answered, above. I didn't realize that TRT brought the levels so high. So theoretically let's say, if I have (by far) higher natural test than anyone in the gym, but some guy is on TRT he's still got more than I do? I always figured the docs tried to bring your levels to somewhere in the middle of the average for your age. TRT sounds like quite the experience for most guys then!

It is interesting that some can recover after years on, or are able to recover after TRT, yet others cannot. Yet NO ONE knows the rhyme or reason? Might it have something to do with natural levels? ie: the higher you had the better chance you have to recover? Or perhaps can it be better 'persuaded' to come back if you engage in aggressive strength training once off? Maybe it has simply to do with how you cycled and how you came off? though I would assume a legitimate study would cover those bases at least.

I've been contemplating going on a 'five year cycle' for a long time now. I know there were athletes back in the 70's and 80's that never came off in all the time they competed. There was no testing at all then, so why would they? I would kill to find out how these guys are faring now. One might be inclined to lump them in with the pro bodybuilders that all live on TRT now, but I would imagine the cycles they did in athletics - lets say Olympic lifting, were considerably milder, and simpler. These guys had to stay within weight classes, for one.

[marcus300]

Ok....
This is not how I have understood it.

I did a few months of 100mg/ED Testogel last year.
It raised my Test from 15 to 24 (8-35)
And I saw great results.
Guys in the gym asking if I was on cycle.

As a sidenote, I just finished 12 weeks of 500mg/week Cyp.
For me, the effects/sides/results of Gel outweighs the effects/sides/results of Test pinning cycle.
Ofcourse, important to mention is at 42, my goals are to maintain a healthy, muscular, athletic appearance. Not to bulk.

I just received a new product from my Doc, an Androgel pump.
I will try this after I have recovered from my Cyp cycle. And do BW before, during and after, to see how the Androgel affects my Test and particularly my LH.

trt will raise your test because your taking testosterone ,but it will shut down your natural production. Thats the whole idea of guys who have low testosterone they take trt to get their testosterone levels up to normal and within range. You can not take TRT and still have natural testosterone because the negative feedback loop will detect the test and start to supress and shutdown your HPTA. Its been shown that even 100mgs of testosterone per wk will eventurally shutdown your HPTA

[jtuner77]

Yesterday I went to visit my doc after taking my blood test on Monday. Last time tested I was at 400, this one came back at 370. She said she doesn't feel comfortable prescribing me TRT till I see an endo because I am in range but low normal, I got a little pissy and said just cause I am low normal doesn't mean I feel NORMAL....I feel like shit. I have to wait for the referral to be approved in the next few days and then I get to make an appointment for this Endo which I hope has a friggin clue about TRT and is not afraid to help me out even though I am "within range"

I dread having to go thru numerous Endo's before I find one that has a clue about TRT therapy!

[darkcrayz]

for life mate.
i put myself on trt 18mths ago because i couldnt recover and was getting desperate, i had been considering coming off but when i look back and rem the darkness that was low/no test im afraid to. im now being monitored by my doc and she lets me know where my bloods are at, im still responsible for my own test and trt though but thankfully she takes away shooting in the dark.
i'd say stay with it

i feel ya man. i did the same, my gp checks my levels quarterly for me. it was a dark place before that.

[gixxerboy1]

Yesterday I went to visit my doc after taking my blood test on Monday. Last time tested I was at 400, this one came back at 370. She said she doesn't feel comfortable prescribing me TRT till I see an endo because I am in range but low normal, I got a little pissy and said just cause I am low normal doesn't mean I feel NORMAL....I feel like shit. I have to wait for the referral to be approved in the next few days and then I get to make an appointment for this Endo which I hope has a friggin clue about TRT and is not afraid to help me out even though I am "within range"

I dread having to go thru numerous Endo's before I find one that has a clue about TRT therapy!

Do some research on the Dr. Call his office and ask questions before you go. Thats what i always do. He maybe in an endocrinologist that specializes in diabetes not trt. I'm sure your insurance had multiple endo's to pick from