Chemisty Experts opinion - nonmethly winny?

**Exevious** · 08-31-2011, 10:33 AM

Any of the compound reading guru's able to tell me if this is legit?

[3,2-c] pyrazol-5 alpha-etioallocholane-17b-tetrahydropyranol

supposedly no liver strain, but dose recommended closer to 200mgs.
Im guessing if it is legit, its weaker... causing the need for higher dose.
But if its not 17aa... shouldn't be a big deal to up dose.

can't seem to find any reports on it... other than sales sites.

**chuckt12345** · 08-31-2011, 10:45 AM

Take it to the ph/supps forum

**jimmyinkedup** · 08-31-2011, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Exevious

Any of the compound reading guru's able to tell me if this is legit?

[3,2-c] pyrazol-5 alpha-etioallocholane-17b-tetrahydropyranol

supposedly no liver strain, but dose recommended closer to 200mgs.
Im guessing if it is legit, its weaker... causing the need for higher dose.
But if its not 17aa... shouldn't be a big deal to up dose.

can't seem to find any reports on it... other than sales sites.

Its a stanazol (winny) analog - essentailly non alkylated stanzol.
Gaspari used to sell it under then name Orastan e i think - not 100% on that. Its is def what i stated though ..... I personally wouldnbt bother - you could diose it as high as you want i seriously question its anabolic potential....
jmo

**Lemonada8** · 08-31-2011, 12:08 PM

if its not methylated (17aa <- the 2nd "A") then it cant be oral because that methylation group keeps the liver from destroying the compound.

sounds like a scam to me if its in oral form

**Bonaparte** · 08-31-2011, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Lemonada8

if its not methylated (17aa <- the 2nd "A") then it cant be oral because that methylation group keeps the liver from destroying the compound.

sounds like a scam to me if its in oral form

There are plenty of oral hormones that aren't 17aa. Many of them were PHs.

**Exevious** · 08-31-2011, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Lemonada8

if its not methylated (17aa <- the 2nd "A") then it cant be oral because that methylation group keeps the liver from destroying the compound.

sounds like a scam to me if its in oral form

From what I understand 17aa is there to protect the compound from the liver when a multi-step conversion needs to happen.
If that is not the case with this compound, then it still may be good to go.

I just don't know enough chemisty to understand how this becomes winny... or if it 'is what it is' and just goes straight to work.

**chuckt12345** · 08-31-2011, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Exevious

From what I understand 17aa is there to protect the compound from the liver when a multi-step conversion needs to happen.
If that is not the case with this compound, then it still may be good to go.

I just don't know enough chemisty to understand how this becomes winny... or if it 'is what it is' and just goes straight to work.

what is the product name,, did you buy this as a PH?

**Exevious** · 08-31-2011, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

There are plenty of oral hormones that aren't 17aa. Many of them were PHs.

I would like to know what they are...
The only other one I found is the japanese furza- something but couldn't find it in a for sale product.

**Exevious** · 08-31-2011, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by chuckt12345

what is the product name,, did you buy this as a PH?

It is called P-stane.

It was available for sale as a dietery suppliment to assist in the support of testostrone maintence. or something to that effect.

**Lemonada8** · 08-31-2011, 02:11 PM

Its a prohormone. What other oral hormone doesnt have the methyl group protecting it from the liver? Steroids are cholesterol based, and that methyl group protects it from the rings being digested and broken down.

Its structure is similar to winny, but its effectiveness is variable from person to person. i would go with my normal response to prohormones and say its crap. and it says it doesnt have the 17aa group on there to make it better for hte liver but you have to take 2x as much? then you are just flooding the liver with the compound and hoping that it gets past the digestion of the liver. So sure it doesnt have the methyl group that keeps it protected (normal winny) and makes it liver toxic, but you flood it iwth the PH winny is prolly gonna do just as much damage as real winny...

**jimmyinkedup** · 08-31-2011, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Exevious

I would like to know what they are...
The only other one I found is the japanese furza- something but couldn't find it in a for sale product.

orastan a/ furazadrol are 2 names companies use for this compound which is a non metyhlated version of the steroid furazabol.
I think i see what you are trying to do but i also feel you will be thoroughly disappointed. 17aa in many cases does alot more to a compound than just increase oral availibity apprently. One merely look at dball which is metyhlated eq or superdrol which is essentially methylated masteron to realize methylation can dramatically change compound effectiveness when it comes to androgenic and anabolic effects.

The 2 substances mentioned so far are examples of basically removing the methyl group from the parent compound and the end result is a dramatic loss of effectiveness - regardless of how much you take. 17aa seems to impoact igf production and for some other reasons apparently can dramatically increase anabolic activity of certain compounds. These PH/PS compounds mentioned here are a complete waste imo.

**Bonaparte** · 08-31-2011, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by Lemonada8

Its a prohormone. What other oral hormone doesnt have the methyl group protecting it from the liver? Steroids are cholesterol based, and that methyl group protects it from the rings being digested and broken down.

Its structure is similar to winny, but its effectiveness is variable from person to person. i would go with my normal response to prohormones and say its crap. and it says it doesnt have the 17aa group on there to make it better for hte liver but you have to take 2x as much? then you are just flooding the liver with the compound and hoping that it gets past the digestion of the liver. So sure it doesnt have the methyl group that keeps it protected (normal winny) and makes it liver toxic, but you flood it iwth the PH winny is prolly gonna do just as much damage as real winny...

Where do I begin?
1,4AD, oral Primo, proviron , 4-AD, 1-AD, all those Dienlone precursors (4,9-estra, etc), pro-magnon. There are a bunch of new/more obscure ones, but that was just off the top of my head.

Yeah, you need a much higher dose to account for the lack of oral bioavailability, but thse don't add any real strain to your liver like a 17aa. Sure, they pass through it, but they don't mess everything up.

**Lemonada8** · 08-31-2011, 08:46 PM

^^ those all still have a methyl group on them somewhere... It might not be on the 17 alpha carbon but its still there, that makes it bioavailable.

And i wasnt counting PH's cuz they count on metabolites to do the work, hence all the variablity between people.

**Exevious** · 08-31-2011, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

orastan a/ furazadrol are 2 names companies use for this compound which is a non metyhlated version of the steroid furazabol.
I think i see what you are trying to do but i also feel you will be thoroughly disappointed. 17aa in many cases does alot more to a compound than just increase oral availibity apprently. One merely look at dball which is metyhlated eq or superdrol which is essentially methylated masteron to realize methylation can dramatically change compound effectiveness when it comes to androgenic and anabolic effects.

The 2 substances mentioned so far are examples of basically removing the methyl group from the parent compound and the end result is a dramatic loss of effectiveness - regardless of how much you take. 17aa seems to impoact igf production and for some other reasons apparently can dramatically increase anabolic activity of certain compounds. These PH/PS compounds mentioned here are a complete waste imo.

Thanks for taking an interest in my question! and providing some nice feedback!!

So with what you have said...

If were to take it and not feel significant gains.... should that mean that I should not expect an equal shut down when the cycle is over??

I am trying to figure out the best way to run 3 subs. this one I was seeking for being non 17aa... and the others I picked up because everyone is talking good things about them, and there was an offer of deep discounts to add them to my order.

So now I am trying to figure out the best way to run the trio....

Should I start with this non methly whinny... and if nothing happens save my PCT for the Havoc or SD runs??

Or should I run this winny with the hAVOC and run the SD at several weeks later?

Thanks for taking an interest in my thread. I am older at 36... been watching/reading for several years... and tho I still may not have my shit dialed in... I am not some young dumbshit about to swallow a bunch of crap and screw myself for life.....

**Bonaparte** · 08-31-2011, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by Lemonada8

^^ those all still have a methyl group on them somewhere... It might not be on the 17 alpha carbon but its still there, that makes it bioavailable.

And i wasnt counting PH's cuz they count on metabolites to do the work, hence all the variablity between people.

Besides 17a, only a 1-methyl group helps oral bioavailability. They don't all have one.

**Exevious** · 08-31-2011, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Lemonada8

^^ those all still have a methyl group on them somewhere... It might not be on the 17 alpha carbon but its still there, that makes it bioavailable.

And i wasnt counting PH's cuz they count on metabolites to do the work, hence all the variablity between people.

I was about to ask the same thing.....
I have research alot of those and they all appear to be liver toxic as a 17aa or methlyated compound.

**jimmyinkedup** · 08-31-2011, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by Exevious

Thanks for taking an interest in my question! and providing some nice feedback!!

So with what you have said...

If were to take it and not feel significant gains.... should that mean that I should not expect an equal shut down when the cycle is over??

I am trying to figure out the best way to run 3 subs. this one I was seeking for being non 17aa... and the others I picked up because everyone is talking good things about them, and there was an offer of deep discounts to add them to my order.

So now I am trying to figure out the best way to run the trio....

Should I start with this non methly whinny... and if nothing happens save my PCT for the Havoc or SD runs??

Or should I run this winny with the hAVOC and run the SD at several weeks later?

Thanks for taking an interest in my thread. I am older at 36... been watching/reading for several years... and tho I still may not have my shit dialed in... I am not some young dumbshit about to swallow a bunch of crap and screw myself for life.....

tbh I couldnt in all fairness help u set up a cycle with the compounds you have. Ive never run them and up till now my input and opinion ITT has been strictly based on chemistry and sheer product recollection. Any cycle i camke up with wouldnt be experience based - just textbook theory. I gave up on ph's years ago even before the first big ban. One piece of advice I would offer is I surely woulnt run the product you initially asked about standalone. IMO it would be a total waste.