2nd Cycle - Revisited

[gbrice75]

I posted my proposed 2nd cycle late last year and got it all sorted here, but had to postpone it for personal reasons.

Well, i'm back and ready to roll. You should know up front i've been working with Nark, so this has already been discussed with him however I always like to post here and see other opinions. Here's what i'm looking at:

Test Prop, 50mg ED - Weeks 1-8
Tren Ace, 50mg ED - Weeks 1-8
(possibly) Winny, 25-50mg ED - Weeks 1-8
HCG - 250iu, 2x a week

PCT - Clomid 100/50/50/50/50 and Nolva 40/20/20/20/20

I will have an AI on hand, likely Arimidex .

Let me address one thing - I originally had this cycle set with the test prop at 100mg ED, however Nark suggested I bring it down to 50mg. Since the test is really just the base compound here (and really only in place to counter shutdown), why run it higher than the true anabolic compound of the cycle, in this case the Tren? It makes perfect sense to me, however I know this isn't as 'standard' as you guys are used to seeing, so I wanted to provide you with the rationale up front.

Let me know your thoughts! Also note i'm not sure about adding the Winny yet. This is only my 2nd cycle and i'm hesitant about running 3 compounds. Hell, i'm hesitant about running Tren to begin with!

[gbrice75]

Bump!!! My sh!t's stayin' at the top until I get at least 1 reply! Report me! =P

[MBMETC]

tren was a bitch for me. be careful.
cycle looks good, not to crazy about winni

[gbrice75]

tren was a bitch for me. be careful.
cycle looks good, not to crazy about winni

Blast from the past - where you been bro?? Haven't seen you around in a long time!

Can you elaborate on both? What was it about the Tren... the sides? What about the Winny... joint issues?

[gixxerboy1]

looks good G. I run my tren higher then test too

[Dukkit]

Ive found running tren higher then test makes for less sides and still the same gains.

So good job for listening to Nark.

And I know its Tren Ace and its out of your sytem quickly due to the ester... but I still feel Tren is hard enough at shutting you down that you should run the prop a few extra days. Just to let the Tren clean BEFORE the Prop and then letting Prop clear in order to start PCT.
Just another 2 days or so.

Ive found it helps recovery just a little. And a little can go a long way when it comes to your nuts.

[jimmyinkedup]

Man I have to say this thread was pretty awesome when i read it. Like taking a stepo back a few years and all the mebers i remeber from back then posting - took me right back! Also awesome to see my man dukkit posting in the q &a section!

GBRICE I LIKE IT. TEST /TREN /WIN IS ONE OF MY , IF NOT MY FAVORITE STACK.
LOOKS GOOD ( sorry for caps - too lazy to retype it *LOL*)

[Dukkit]

Man I have to say this thread was pretty awesome when i read it. Like taking a stepo back a few years and all the mebers i remeber from back then posting - took me right back! Also awesome to see my man dukkit posting in the q &a section!

GBRICE I LIKE IT. TEST /TREN /WIN IS ONE OF MY , IF NOT MY FAVORITE STACK.
LOOKS GOOD ( sorry for caps - too lazy to retype it *LOL*)

Brother man! Didnt know you moved onto Monitor status! Sweet! lol

[Windex]

Torem over Clomid I would say. Hope you post a log because I will be the first one to subscribe !

[gbrice75]

looks good G. I run my tren higher then test too

Thx GB, appreciate you taking a look! Note i'll be running test and tren at the same dosage, but we're on the same page.

Ive found running tren higher then test makes for less sides and still the same gains.

Yep, that's definitely one major point. The other is to let the Tren handle the bulk of the workload.

So good job for listening to Nark.

And I know its Tren Ace and its out of your sytem quickly due to the ester... but I still feel Tren is hard enough at shutting you down that you should run the prop a few extra days. Just to let the Tren clean BEFORE the Prop and then letting Prop clear in order to start PCT.
Just another 2 days or so.

I'll have 3 bottles of test and 3 of tren, both pretty standard dosed at 100mg/ml, 10ml per bottle. S0 total of 3000ml of each compound, 8 week cycle 50mg ED means i'd need 2800mg of each. With that, I can end the tren at 2800ml and let the test run an additional 4 days to empty the last bottle. I can deal with losing 200mg tren.

Ive found it helps recovery just a little. And a little can go a long way when it comes to your nuts.

Thx bro, and agreed! Hopefully this approach along with running HCG throughout the cycle will make recovery easier on me.

Man I have to say this thread was pretty awesome when i read it. Like taking a stepo back a few years and all the mebers i remeber from back then posting - took me right back! Also awesome to see my man dukkit posting in the q &a section!

Same here, good to see these guys!!

GBRICE I LIKE IT. TEST /TREN/WIN IS ONE OF MY , IF NOT MY FAVORITE STACK.
LOOKS GOOD ( sorry for caps - too lazy to retype it *LOL*)

Thx Jimmy... still not sure about that Win but we'll see. It may come down to cost as i'm limited here with the little one due in +/- 7 weeks!!

[MBMETC]

Blast from the past - where you been bro?? Haven't seen you around in a long time!

Can you elaborate on both? What was it about the Tren... the sides? What about the Winny... joint issues?

Whats up G
Well let me be fair by saying when i ran my prop/tren cycle im leaning towards the test being bunk or severely underdosed, so it felt like i ran a tren only cycle.
after the cycle i got depressed and kinda just gave up on dieting and working out.
i lost nearly every gain i made pre cycle and lost a total of 35lbs (195lbs to 165lbs) im aching to put back on quality lbs but as i said earlier my heart still isn't into it. on top of that im having some problems with ed although it has gotten better but its over 2 months since the cycle. Keep in mind this is only my story with tren and prop and many have run successful cycles.

[Standby]

get in the diet section learn how to eat. god.

[powerliftmike]

Haha, yea Nark is not a fan of test. Dosing a bit light IMO lol. That stack will rip you up, winny just gives me alot of joint pain and tren is pretty rough on me. That tren cough is a nightmare. To counter it I go long ester (tren e) and have albuterol inhaler handy. Main thing to point out it like stated above run that test maybe 9 wks, instead of stopping at 8 with the others. I always like test tapers too. Otherwise you do have a test/dht/19nor classic cutting stack.

[Standby]

ya i always thought this stack was supposed to cut and rip you up pretty good

[gbrice75]

Whats up G
Well let me be fair by saying when i ran my prop/tren cycle im leaning towards the test being bunk or severely underdosed, so it felt like i ran a tren only cycle.
after the cycle i got depressed and kinda just gave up on dieting and working out.
i lost nearly every gain i made pre cycle and lost a total of 35lbs (195lbs to 165lbs) im aching to put back on quality lbs but as i said earlier my heart still isn't into it. on top of that im having some problems with ed although it has gotten better but its over 2 months since the cycle. Keep in mind this is only my story with tren and prop and many have run successful cycles.

Damn bro, i'm really sorry to hear this. Did you run any PCT? What did it look like?

I think you should get back on the board more frequently. Hopefully being 'around' will give you that spark you need. I know you can come out of this bro... and muscle memory is a beautiful thing!

get in the diet section learn how to eat. god.

PWND!!! This board needs a 'like' button like FB has.

Haha, yea Nark is not a fan of test. Dosing a bit light IMO lol. That stack will rip you up, winny just gives me alot of joint pain and tren is pretty rough on me. That tren cough is a nightmare. To counter it I go long ester (tren e) and have albuterol inhaler handy. Main thing to point out it like stated above run that test maybe 9 wks, instead of stopping at 8 with the others. I always like test tapers too. Otherwise you do have a test/dht/19nor classic cutting stack.

Wow, what rock did u come out from under? lol, good to see you around bro! Yep, I know it's not Nark's thing. What would you recommend, just out of curiosity - 75mg ED or stick with my originally proposed 100mg?

Yep, i'll run the test for the full 3000mg (well, 4 additional days @50mg/day, not quite a week but it's better than nothing) and stop the tren at 2800 - or even a bit sooner if you all think it'll make that big a difference.

Re: winny - everything is UGL and this one isn't currently making winny, so that's settled. The Tren sides are what I was afraid of... but I guess i'll have to see how I react to them. Maybe i'll be one of the lucky ones.

ya i always thought this stack was supposed to cut and rip you up pretty good

Yep, that's the goal here - gotta get super ripped to 'fix' my metabolism issue, then i'll work on adding mass which I desperately need!

[gbrice75]

Marcus and/or Swifto been around lately? Would love input from both.

[gbrice75]

Bump! Sorry boys, you're not getting rid of me that quickly!!

[Sicko]

I dont have any experience with prop or tren , but I am stoked to hear you are gonna get it bro!!!
From the time I have been here I read your threads and logs and am Impressed at your dedication. Cant wait to see your progress..ugghh..sounds like I am faggin on you,,heheheh..
Good luck G keep us posted...
WEst SiDE!! hehehheh...

[Matt]

Marcus and/or Swifto been around lately? Would love input from both.

They are both doing time for rioting.....

My view is this...

Im not sure tren is for a second cycle so make sure your well prepared for some harsh sides.
I'd run hcg right up to pct..
I'd swap dex for stane....

[gbrice75]

I dont have any experience with prop or tren , but I am stoked to hear you are gonna get it bro!!!
From the time I have been here I read your threads and logs and am Impressed at your dedication. Cant wait to see your progress..ugghh..sounds like I am faggin on you,,heheheh..
Good luck G keep us posted...
WEst SiDE!! hehehheh...

Thanks bro! And no, not faggin at all, lol! Also i'll let you slide on the West Side comment.... this time!

They are both doing time for rioting.....

Oofah!!!

My view is this...

Im not sure tren is for a second cycle so make sure your well prepared for some harsh sides.

This is exactly what I labored over when trying to decide on NPP vs. Tren. Given my goal, tren is the better choice - but I do still have these concerns. However I am putting my trust in Nark - and if the sides get too harsh, it's not like I have to continue running it... i'll up my test dosage and be on a short test only cycle I guess lol

I'd run hcg right up to pct..

Planning on it!

I'd swap dex for stane....

Easily done, thanks mate!

[TheClinch]

They are both doing time for rioting.....

My view is this...

Im not sure tren is for a second cycle so make sure your well prepared for some harsh sides.
I'd run hcg right up to pct..
I'd swap dex for stane....

Sorry to butt in.

Why would you make this swap Matt?

[TheClinch]

Gbrice75 please post on this thread how everything goes. You're a guy people can count on for doing it right so we know what you gain is the result of a properly thought out and executed cycle.
I'm subscribed and hoping you have time to follow up.
Goodluck and good health bro!

[Matt]

Sorry to butt in.

Why would you make this swap Matt?

They work completely differently mate, and with adex you can suffer a real bad rebound, not so with stane....

[gbrice75]

Gbrice75 please post on this thread how everything goes. You're a guy people can count on for doing it right so we know what you gain is the result of a properly thought out and executed cycle.
I'm subscribed and hoping you have time to follow up.
Goodluck and good health bro!

Thanks for the compliment mate! TBH i'll likely be updating moreso in my own thread in the diet section, so if you're interested in following, please subscribe here:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ess-Log/page53

Yes - I whore my own thread out whenever I see the opportunity.

[TheClinch]

Okay I'll get on that G!

[stpete]

Solid cycle gbrice...Prop/Tren is probably the best cycle out there because it's so versatile. With the proper diet and training one can use these compounds for bulking or cutting. In your case, it's obvious(imo) that it's a cutter. Especially when you talk about adding winny.
I agree w/ Matt on everything he mentioned. Be prepared for some sides w/tren. Such as insomnia, night sweats that will drive you crazy and have you buying more bed sheets cause washing them everyday will get old real quick. Those are the harshest for me. I have found that tylenol pm helps w/ the insomnia. And melatonin helps w/ the night sweats.
But if you're going to go for it, i'd suggest running the tren a little higher than the prop. As you said, let the real compound work and the prop is just the base. I've ran it at tren 100ed and prop 50ed w/ very nice results.
And just to stay loyal to what we preach here, one shouldn't use tren unless they have at least 4-5 cycles under their belt, and never consider using 3 compounds on their second cycle. hahaha....
Good luck and i hope you have a good time and get the results you're looking for. Keep us posted on your progress.

[gbrice75]

Solid cycle gbrice...Prop/Tren is probably the best cycle out there because it's so versatile. With the proper diet and training one can use these compounds for bulking or cutting. In your case, it's obvious(imo) that it's a cutter. Especially when you talk about adding winny.

Yep. Wish I could say I was working on adding mass, but unfortunately my metabolism just isn't 'right' yet. I'll likely have to get super lean to 'force' my body to start partitioning nutrients more efficiently.

I agree w/ Matt on everything he mentioned. Be prepared for some sides w/tren. Such as insomnia, night sweats that will drive you crazy and have you buying more bed sheets cause washing them everyday will get old real quick.

Ugh, the sides are what i'm most worried about. I have to run this cycle in secret. i.e. the wife doesn't know, and if she finds out, we're gonna have a BIG problem. Can these sides be SO obvious that she would know something was 'wrong' or different with me? Does nearly everyone experience these same sides, or are there some people who fair well on Tren ?

Those are the harshest for me. I have found that tylenol pm helps w/ the insomnia. And melatonin helps w/ the night sweats.

Well, the good news (never thought i'd consider this good news) is I already have a sleep issue fairly often. I'm already on melatonin, GABA, unisom - you name it, I probably take it before bed, lol! So - hopefully this will be par for the course for me, if anything.

But if you're going to go for it, i'd suggest running the tren a little higher than the prop. As you said, let the real compound work and the prop is just the base. I've ran it at tren 100ed and prop 50ed w/ very nice results.

Well here's the problem - I don't want to run the test lower than 50mg, and as a first time tren user I want to keep that dose modest at 50mg... so it's kinda tough to get away from the equal dosage! Tren @ 100ed would probably kill me, lol! Do you think 50/50 will still yield decent results, in your opinion?

And just to stay loyal to what we preach here, one shouldn't use tren unless they have at least 4-5 cycles under their belt, and never consider using 3 compounds on their second cycle. hahaha....

Ok, this is kind of disturbing... I know what you're saying and trust me I labored over the idea of using tren on my second cycle. If you had said one should have 2 cycles under their belt before using tren, i'd say i'm a trooper and go for it. 4-5 though... man you're scaring me all over again!!!! Again, i'm putting my trust in Nark here... I know he knows his shit and I don't think he'd steer me wrong... but you are not the only person warning me either... so you can understand my dilemma!

As for the win, I was never planning on running it myself, it was Nark's suggestion, but he wasn't bent on it. He just threw it in as a 'maybe'. I'm cool with 2 compounds!

Good luck and i hope you have a good time and get the results you're looking for. Keep us posted on your progress.

Thanks for your support bro, I hope so too! I'm not thrilled about having to pin ED... and sometimes 2x a day on the days i'm also pinning HCG . GRRR!!! I'm probably going with quads, delts, lats.. hopefully that's it. Can't stand doing the glutes and there's something weird about pinning the pecs IMO.... tri's are an option too.

[stpete]

Yep. Wish I could say I was working on adding mass, but unfortunately my metabolism just isn't 'right' yet. I'll likely have to get super lean to 'force' my body to start partitioning nutrients more efficiently.



Ugh, the sides are what i'm most worried about. I have to run this cycle in secret. i.e. the wife doesn't know, and if she finds out, we're gonna have a BIG problem. Can these sides be SO obvious that she would know something was 'wrong' or different with me? Does nearly everyone experience these same sides, or are there some people who fair well on Tren ?
Almost everyone experiences the same sides..the only difference being the extent of the sides. In other words, you might sweat at night where i would completely drown the sheets and have terrifying nightmares.


Well, the good news (never thought i'd consider this good news) is I already have a sleep issue fairly often. I'm already on melatonin, GABA, unisom - you name it, I probably take it before bed, lol! So - hopefully this will be par for the course for me, if anything.



Well here's the problem - I don't want to run the test lower than 50mg, and as a first time tren user I want to keep that dose modest at 50mg... so it's kinda tough to get away from the equal dosage! Tren @ 100ed would probably kill me, lol! Do you think 50/50 will still yield decent results, in your opinion?
First, tren's not going to kill you. haha..And i agree w/your test dosage at no lower than 50mg. Hell, if it went any lower why have it at all? Yes, you will still see gains, and knowing you and your diet, you'll get the best results from those dosages but they're still rather low. Call me crazy but my recommendation is 350mgs prop and 700mgs tren. I know it sounds like a lot but you'll be ok.


Ok, this is kind of disturbing... I know what you're saying and trust me I labored over the idea of using tren on my second cycle. If you had said one should have 2 cycles under their belt before using tren, i'd say i'm a trooper and go for it. 4-5 though... man you're scaring me all over again!!!! Again, i'm putting my trust in Nark here... I know he knows his shit and I don't think he'd steer me wrong... but you are not the only person warning me either... so you can understand my dilemma!
Nark won't steer you wrong. You're worrying too much!





























As for the win, I was never planning on running it myself, it was Nark's suggestion, but he wasn't bent on it. He just threw it in as a 'maybe'. I'm cool with 2 compounds!
Good..you have enough going on.


Thanks for your support bro, I hope so too! I'm not thrilled about having to pin ED... and sometimes 2x a day on the days i'm also pinning HCG. GRRR!!! I'm probably going with quads, delts, lats.. hopefully that's it. Can't stand doing the glutes and there's something weird about pinning the pecs IMO.... tri's are an option too.

Who said you have to pin ED? You're good EOD!

[gbrice75]

100mg EOD?

[Choppers]

I did Prop / NPP EOD last time and Prop only ED this time, and while the extra pinning is a bit more of a pain in the ass with the daily injections. I can definitely tell I have steadier test levels and less frustration as the doses are more regular and smaller are definitely worthwhile. I know people said you can do EOD but I won't be going back to it.

Give the ED a go and see how you go?

[gbrice75]

I did Prop / NPP EOD last time and Prop only ED this time, and while the extra pinning is a bit more of a pain in the ass with the daily injections. I can definitely tell I have steadier test levels and less frustration as the doses are more regular and smaller are definitely worthwhile. I know people said you can do EOD but I won't be going back to it.

Give the ED a go and see how you go?

Yea, i'll probably go with ED to start - if it's unbearable I may wind up switching to EOD. More consistent blood level concentration is important to me.

At the moment, i'm still going with 50mg/50mg tren ace and test prop ED, with the possibility of bumping tren up to 75mg ED depending on how I handle the sides at 50gm.

[Choppers]

I m looking at the same and when I was background reading that popular cycle, many recommended using a higher tren than test levels. Will be interested to see the results GBrice with your new diet too.

[marcus300]

There's no disputing that test and tren is a great combo, infact its one of the best but I wouldn't recommend someone who has only done ONE test only cycle to use tren on his second cycle. My reasons are tren is a serious compound and you don't really want to being something so serious when you haven't even experimented yet with other less harsher compounds what will produce great gains without the harsh side effects most suffer with tren. You don't need the tren when your fresh at cycling, why would you want to risk getting the sides of tren when they are not needed.

With the sounds of it on your first cycle you only did a cycle of test because the dbol was bunk if I remember right, so why not just up the dose of test and get some decent dbol or var. Testosterone builds muscle tissue with ease, testosterone sides can easily be controlled and if I was you I wouldn't risk the sides of tren even at such a low dose. I would up the test dose and throw a decent oral and see how you respond. This isn't a race.


Don't cut the calories in PCT like you did last time, increase them because this will give you an anabolic edge at a depressed state also high levels of BCAA's and glutamine all aid recovery. Training wise pull back on he volume but keep the intensity the same, increase the recovery days and bring down the time training to around 30-40mins, longer training sessions just reduce testosterone and increase cortisol levels so no matter how strong and fit you feel dont spend to long in the gym, all this will aid CNS recovery which will be under pressure at this stage. Also still hit basic movements and take more attention on the eccentric part of the lifts because this causes most of the muscle fiber damage.

[songdog]

I agree on the tren is to much for a 2nd cycle.You got a lot going on as it is with a new baby.I would hate to see you wearing a mouse in your next avi.Beacuse you stepped out of like.And momma had to give you some ACT RIGHT ! I hear them Polish women can be MEAN

[gbrice75]

Marcus, thanks for your input brother, I wouldn't proceed with anything before hearing from you.

LoL @ Song, yea them Polish women can be tough!!!

[HALTEH]

Just wanna say good luck, brother. I'm running my second cycle right now of Test/EQ and I plan on Doing Prop/Tren as a third cycle down the road. Excited to see how things go for you. all the best!

[Sicko]

Dam GB just when you thought you had a plan...What are you thinkin now? Still gonna GET IT? or back to the drawing board?

[gbrice75]

Just wanna say good luck, brother. I'm running my second cycle right now of Test/EQ and I plan on Doing Prop/Tren as a third cycle down the road. Excited to see how things go for you. all the best!

Thanks bro! Check my log in the diet section for updates!

Dam GB just when you thought you had a plan...What are you thinkin now? Still gonna GET IT? or back to the drawing board?

I will be giving it all serious thought bro... I have good arguments for both sides from very experienced, trusted and respected vets.

[gbrice75]

Update - after much deliberating and consideration, I've decided to move forward with the cycle. I appreciate all the advice and guidance I've been given, and to those who advised against it, I've spoken with personally to make sure they know I appreciated their feedback and didn't simply write it off; instead, I weighed out positives vs. negatives and made an informed decision. With that said, I am wrapping up day 5, but so far feel nothing. Every day, I worry more and more that the gear may be bunk. I know I have a few more days before I can be certain, but of course, i'm anxious to see results. The cycle consists of:

Test prop, 50mg ED - weeks 1-9
Tren ace, 50mg ED - weeks 1-8
Aromasin , 10mg EOD - weeks 1-9 (may bump to ED if I feel it becomes necessary)
HCG - 250iu 2x weekly - weeks 1-9 (I haven't gotten my hands on the HCG yet and as such, will have to start this later. I didn't want to wait and revolve the entire cycle around it

PCT will consist of Clomid 100/50/50/50/50, and Nolva 40/20/20/20/20. I may add 2 additional weeks to the Nolva if I feel it's necessary.

Pinning ED takes some getting used to, but i'm ok with it. Doing glutes, quads, and delts. May pin lats as well, we'll see. Drawing w/ an 18g and pinning w/ a 23g. Fairly painless, although today the left delt was a bit sore immediately post-pin - maybe the prop? Feels fine now other than the usual soreness that follows pinning a new spot. In fact, both ass cheeks and quads are sore as well right now, lol!

So, hopefully the gear isn't bunk and i'll be able to see some results soon. Remember that the goal of this cycle is to continue cutting and hit single digit bodyfat, not to add mass. As such, my caloric intake will remain in a deficit for a good part of the week, at maintenance on some days, and a modest refeed 1x weekly. If I make any gains, it's a bonus.

Stay tuned here, and/or in my diet section thread for updates if you're interested - http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ess-Log/page57

Thanks!

[marcus300]

^^^ Bad decision

You don't need tren on your second cycle and you defo don't need it for the goals your trying to achieve. Come on GB you sound like a teenager who wont listen.

Practise what you preach