scientific studies?

**txnhb** · 10-05-2011, 08:12 PM

everybody here seems to be in the opinion that because of higher body fat when cycling means higher chances of gyno. but are there any scientific studies that prove this point? i'm curious as to how many people get blood work done to see what they're testosterone levels are before and during their cycles? what do you guys usually run at while cycling? i mean i've heard of body builders levels being around 15,000 but no wonder you have ridiculous side effects like a limp d*ck.

**borkach** · 10-05-2011, 08:20 PM

i think there hardly been any studies done with steroids that would help bodybuilding in any way

**Bonaparte** · 10-05-2011, 08:25 PM

For the actual question: you don't need a specific study to know that higher bf will increase estrogen.
This can be logically deduced fromt the fact that we KNOW that the aromatase enzyme is much more concentrated in adipose (fat) tissue. So it stands to reason (and has been proven in a multitude of ways) that those with higher amounts of bodyfat will have higher levels of aromatase, and consequently, higher E2 levels.
This isn't BBing science. It is biology and backed by science and medecine. Any doctor will tell you that lower BF will reduce estrogen and boost test.

And IDK what to think of your other statment.

**10nispro** · 10-05-2011, 08:29 PM

Not sure if there are scientific studies performed to back up you concerns but there are tried and trued experiences to back up opinions on here.

unfortunately not enough people get blood work to get a good baseline before to see if sides or problems arise during the cycle to see what corrective measures to take.

**txnhb** · 10-05-2011, 08:33 PM

isn't there more to it? what are they're test levels to begin with? how much gear are they taking? what are there levels while on it? if it's not bbing science then that's why i'm asking to look at it from a scientific perspective. more factors involved than a direct relationship. i think the underlying factor would be if you are taking too much and your t levels are through the roof than of course you will see more side effects. just wondering is all, i'm not trying to start ww3.

**txnhb** · 10-05-2011, 08:55 PM

i mean, do men have higher levels of body fat as they age because their testosterone levels are declining? so wouldn't taking test help combat this? and i don't mean not doing any blood work and let's just shoot 500mg of test cyp and see what that does. i'm new so i'm learning and wanting to do a cycle but people on here say my body fat is too high right now. my first post on here i was at 23% which was measured 2 weeks ago and now i'm at 20% today. i want to do a cycle but monitor my test and estrogen levels before and during the cycle. i'm not trying to shoot my testosterone up past 1300 ng/dl either.

**10nispro** · 10-05-2011, 09:08 PM

There's nothing wrong with asking questions and learning all you can. Knowledge is your best weapon when it comes to introducing unfamiliar compounds into your body. Patients is also a great virtue to have. Learn all you can and take your time and be ready to do it correct.

there a lot of different reasons why a males body fat increases with age and testosterone is one.

**txnhb** · 10-05-2011, 09:23 PM

thanks buddy!

**Bonaparte** · 10-05-2011, 10:04 PM

So you're after HRT then.
Nothing wrong with that. The issue is when fat guys want to pin 500+ mg per week (i.e. a cycle).
This is when estrogen is going to go through the roof and cause gyno, water retention (elevated BP), etc...

**txnhb** · 10-05-2011, 10:58 PM

yeah, i had another post saying i am a 29 year old fighter and just wanted a little something to recover so i can train harder and longer day in and day out. the more i learn though the more i guess it falls under HRT as what i want to use it for.

**Bonaparte** · 10-05-2011, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by txnhb

yeah, i had another post saying i am a 29 year old fighter and just wanted a little something to recover so i can train harder and longer day in and day out. the more i learn though the more i guess it falls under HRT as what i want to use it for.

I wouldn't bother. HRT doesn't do much for performance unless you naturally suffer from low test.
Just lose the fat naturally and that should already help your performance a lot.

**txnhb** · 10-06-2011, 11:32 AM

i disagree. from what i've researched, why wouldn't it help to place my testosterone at an optimum level? anyhow, i drew blood today to see where i'm at naturally. the only reason i've been interested in doing this, is because i don't recover as quickly or have that push i used to have in my younger days and what came to mind was maybe my test levels are possibly low. i know it's not going to make me a better fighter, i'm already doing that every day, what i believe will happen is the ability to train longer and harder and speed up recovery.

**gixxerboy1** · 10-06-2011, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by txnhb

i disagree. from what i've researched, why wouldn't it help to place my testosterone at an optimum level? anyhow, i drew blood today to see where i'm at naturally. the only reason i've been interested in doing this, is because i don't recover as quickly or have that push i used to have in my younger days and what came to mind was maybe my test levels are possibly low. i know it's not going to make me a better fighter, i'm already doing that every day, what i believe will happen is the ability to train longer and harder and speed up recovery.

trt is to get your levels in the normal range and make your symptoms to go away. Not to get you to optimal levels and peak performance.

**Bonaparte** · 10-06-2011, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by txnhb

i disagree. from what i've researched, why wouldn't it help to place my testosterone at an optimum level? anyhow, i drew blood today to see where i'm at naturally. the only reason i've been interested in doing this, is because i don't recover as quickly or have that push i used to have in my younger days and what came to mind was maybe my test levels are possibly low. i know it's not going to make me a better fighter, i'm already doing that every day, what i believe will happen is the ability to train longer and harder and speed up recovery.

Or it could be the extra fat and estrogen you're hauling around...
But you're apparently the expert in performance enhancement here, so do whatever you want.

**JohnnyVegas** · 10-06-2011, 02:11 PM

Another entertaining thread that follows the age-old process:

OP: I want to do something that I know you guys discourage.
Vet1: You shouldn't do that.
OP: But, why?
Vet1: Here is why (with explanation)
Vet2: Here is why (with explanation)
Vet3: Here is why (with explanation)
OP: You guys don't know what you are talking about.
Vet1: Politely reiterate their point
Vet2: Politely reiterate their point
Vet3: Reiterate their point and start the downward slope of proper impatience.

To come: OP does what he wants anyway and later starts a thread with questions about problems he is having.

**cb714** · 10-06-2011, 04:01 PM

It's not an opinion man. Higher fat content means more aromatase enzymes. More aromatase enzymes means more conversion of testosterone to estrogen. If you are injecting large amounts of testosterone then thats more testosterone available to get converted.

All you need is blood work to confirm this.

**txnhb** · 10-06-2011, 04:21 PM

i'll post my blood work results next week when i get them

**txnhb** · 10-06-2011, 04:24 PM

so bodyfat level of 15% decent enough?

**Bonaparte** · 10-06-2011, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by txnhb

so bodyfat level of 15% decent enough?

Depends on your genetics and the dose used.
But I can assure you that less bodyfat equates to less estrogen.

**cb714** · 10-06-2011, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by txnhb

so bodyfat level of 15% decent enough?

I was floating around 11% when I started mine and my nips still got a little tender and puffy. It depends on the person but it's safe to say the lower the better.