Keeping anadrol gains - cutting with anavar afterwards

**Sven7** · 10-24-2011, 07:46 PM

I wanted to bulk up a few more pounds before cutting on anavar , but don't want to devote a whole nother cycle + down time just for bulking. I thought I'd just bulk on something for the beginning of the cycle, then cut for the rest. Since anadrol has some strong diminishing returns after 3 weeks, I figured it'd be perfect. But it is also very easy to lose the gains. So would going from bulking on anadrol + test for 3 weeks to cutting on test+anavar for 5-7 weeks be a bad idea? Would I lose my gains from the anadrol? I remember reading something about why the anadrol gains are hard to keep, and the reasoning was because the drug isn't very androgenic . So would mixing something that is androgenic with the anavar provide longer lasting gains?

Plan:
week 1-8: test enth.
week 2-5:anadrol
5-10: anavar

**ThatAthlete82** · 10-24-2011, 08:13 PM

I think the point of your cycle is mis-guided, diet will supersede the compound you are using in terms of bulking/cutting.

Stats?

**qal92** · 10-24-2011, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Sven7

I wanted to bulk up a few more pounds before cutting on anavar , but don't want to devote a whole nother cycle + down time just for bulking. I thought I'd just bulk on something for the beginning of the cycle, then cut for the rest. Since anadrol has some strong diminishing returns after 3 weeks, I figured it'd be perfect. But it is also very easy to lose the gains. So would going from bulking on anadrol + test for 3 weeks to cutting on test+anavar for 5-7 weeks be a bad idea? Would I lose my gains from the anadrol? I remember reading something about why the anadrol gains are hard to keep, and the reasoning was because the drug isn't very androgenic . So would mixing something that is androgenic with the anavar provide longer lasting gains?

Plan:
week 1-8: test enth.
week 2-5:anadrol
5-10: anavar

Stats? but i would run the enth about 12 weeks, you could run prop 8 weeks but enths ester is medium acting and needs some time. I wouldnt try to cut and bulk in the same cycle i would just go for one or the other, you cant really "bulk" or "cut" in 4-5 weeks, it takes time

**qal92** · 10-24-2011, 08:49 PM

and make sure you have researched and have a well planned pct, best of luck

**Sven7** · 10-24-2011, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by qal92

Stats? but i would run the enth about 12 weeks, you could run prop 8 weeks but enths ester is medium acting and needs some time. I wouldnt try to cut and bulk in the same cycle i would just go for one or the other, you cant really "bulk" or "cut" in 4-5 weeks, it takes time

I've done one cycle before, a test/tren cycle. I ran the tren for 6 of the 10 weeks in the cycle. I put on about 40 pounds, mostly when I first started the tren, all of which I have kept. And supposedly anadrol is even stronger. I'm confident I will put on enough weight during the bulking portion, but I'd also like to cut a lot out in the cutting portion. That's the tough part.

Originally Posted by ThatAthlete82

I think the point of your cycle is mis-guided, diet will supersede the compound you are using in terms of bulking/cutting.

I realize this. I'll be eating to bulk during the bulking portion with anadrol+test, and eating less to cut during the cutting portion with anavar +test. This way I can go straight to bulking during/after my PCT, and keep as much muscle as possible. I'm worried about trying to cut w/o gear, not worried about bulking w/o gear as much.

Edit: Ok, I might extend the test to 10 weeks, and cut for an extra 2 with anavar. It's just so expensive though!

**10nispro** · 10-24-2011, 10:19 PM

You still haven't given stats.

**Bonaparte** · 10-24-2011, 10:28 PM

Why are you relying mainly on orals?

**Sven7** · 10-24-2011, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Why are you relying mainly on orals?

The anadrol just seemed to be the most powerful and convenient bulking agent for such a small period of time (3 weeks) and I happened to find a cheap source for just the quantity. The anadrol just seemed like a good cutting agent, with minimal side effects. I had a bit of a gyno-scare during pct of the test/tren cycle that I am blaming on the tren. Hoping it doesn't come back, so I'm hesitant with some of the similar, or aromotizing agents. Otherwise I'd be doing deca or tren again instead.

Also, I'm kind of scared of balding... Otherwise I'd try winny or something as well.

**Bonaparte** · 10-24-2011, 10:51 PM

It would be healthier and safer to stick mainly to injectables and take your time. Bulking and cutting is largely diet-dependant anyway. What's the rush?

**Sven7** · 10-24-2011, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

It would be healthier and safer to stick mainly to injectables and take your time. Bulking and cutting is largely diet-dependant anyway. What's the rush?

Not much of a rush, It's just that if I devote the entire cycle to bulking, I will be excessively large (imo) and if I go all cutting, I won't be big enough. Right now I'm 200 at 6'2", which may not sound like much to you guys, but I'd prefer to just trade some fat for some muscle. Ending up right back at 200 after the bulk/cut while dropping a few % bf would be ideal for me.

**Times Roman** · 10-25-2011, 04:53 AM

A cycle should only have one goal. Bulking and cutting in the same cycle makes no sense. Pick a goal and stick with it.

Over reliance on orals is not ideal.

With cycles, ESPECIALLY orals, you need to protect your liver. What are you doing to protect your liver?

and as gal92 said, what are you doing for PCT (Post Cycle Therapy )?

----Roman

**Jerseystepup** · 10-25-2011, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by Sven7

Not much of a rush, It's just that if I devote the entire cycle to bulking, I will be excessively large (imo) and if I go all cutting, I won't be big enough. Right now I'm 200 at 6'2", which may not sound like much to you guys, but I'd prefer to just trade some fat for some muscle. Ending up right back at 200 after the bulk/cut while dropping a few % bf would be ideal for me.

Bro.. BULK!!! Im 195 at 5'6 and not HUGE... yea I'm big, but no where near huge... IMO 6'2 200lbs, you still have some movement naturally... no need to even use AAS... remember bro, its not a sprint! its a marathon!

**Times Roman** · 10-25-2011, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Jerseystepup

Bro.. BULK!!! Im 195 at 5'6 and not HUGE... yea I'm big, but no where near huge... IMO 6'2 200lbs, you still have some movement naturally... no need to even use AAS... remember bro, its not a sprint! its a marathon!

Agree. You can't do it all, all at once. Learn to be satisfied with incremental results. My son is almost 21. He hits the gym 5x a week, and is all natural. Eats like a horse too. In the last 12 months, he's gained almost 20lbs. hard to tell which amount is due to lifting, and which is due to natural growth anyways. So just say it's 50/50, and call it 10lbs in a one year period. Now say he can do this consistantly for the next three years. So that would put him at 6'3" and 240lbs. My point is this, you can make almost any goal you want, but it takes three things...

Knowledge, effort and time.

**Sven7** · 10-25-2011, 02:21 PM

So, do you think I should run 2 shorter cycles, and switch to injectables? I'm worried about the gyno flare I had, so that scratches deca and tren for cutting. Also the balding thing, so the harsher DHT derived ones are kinda sketchy for me, so no mast and such. Dunno what that really leaves other than anavar for cutting, which is pretty weak on the liver, doesn't aromatize, and shouldn't put too much of a strain on the hair.

My pct would be similar to the last time I did it, but with clomid as well. So aromasin , nolvadex and clomid. Planned on running arimidex throughout the cycle as well. As for protecting my liver... I was just going to stop drinking during that time. I figured the adrol was only for 3 weeks, and the anavar wasn't very liver toxic. Maybe some milk thistle?

If I did decide to go the unconventional route with the bulk -> cut in one cycle, do you think the adrol gains would be lost during the cut? Even if I am still on test+anavar and go straight back into bulking during/after PCT? I thought it was a solid bet for solidifying my gains during the bulk.

Also @ Jerseystepup: 195 is huge at that height man, haha. At least it would be where I am, maybe you're used to hanging around bigger dudes in general, so it doesn't seem like that much. I go to an engineering-based college. People would be like wtfmayne.jpeg, lots of skinny dudes. People already comment on how big I am now at 200... which is why I don't want to devote an entire cycle to bulking and end up 230.

**guitario** · 10-25-2011, 02:47 PM

195 if lean at 5ft 6 is massive. I think that dude has dysmorphia.

**ghettoboyd** · 10-25-2011, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Sven7

So, do you think I should run 2 shorter cycles, and switch to injectables? I'm worried about the gyno flare I had, so that scratches deca and tren for cutting. Also the balding thing, so the harsher DHT derived ones are kinda sketchy for me, so no mast and such. Dunno what that really leaves other than anavar for cutting, which is pretty weak on the liver, doesn't aromatize, and shouldn't put too much of a strain on the hair.

My pct would be similar to the last time I did it, but with clomid as well. So aromasin , nolvadex and clomid. Planned on running arimidex throughout the cycle as well. As for protecting my liver... I was just going to stop drinking during that time. I figured the adrol was only for 3 weeks, and the anavar wasn't very liver toxic. Maybe some milk thistle?

If I did decide to go the unconventional route with the bulk -> cut in one cycle, do you think the adrol gains would be lost during the cut? Even if I am still on test+anavar and go straight back into bulking during/after PCT? I thought it was a solid bet for solidifying my gains during the bulk.

Also @ Jerseystepup: 195 is huge at that height man, haha. At least it would be where I am, maybe you're used to hanging around bigger dudes in general, so it doesn't seem like that much. I go to an engineering-based college. People would be like wtfmayne.jpeg, lots of skinny dudes. People already comment on how big I am now at 200... which is why I don't want to devote an entire cycle to bulking and end up 230.

im not trying to flame bro but if your gaining 30lbs per cycle then it sounds to me that you never gave yourself much time to build a natty base of muscle to start with and probably started to cycle before you where ready...im lucky to gain 10 and keep 5 lbs per cycle after pct but i didnt start to use aas till i was 36yrs old weighed 190lbs at 5'10" and had trained natty for a solid 6yrs not counting the on and off years post high school...dont expect to gain 30lbs every cycle bro....

**qal92** · 10-25-2011, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by ghettoboyd

im not trying to flame bro but if your gaining 30lbs per cycle then it sounds to me that you never gave yourself much time to build a natty base of muscle to start with and probably started to cycle before you where ready...im lucky to gain 10 and keep 5 lbs per cycle after pct but i didnt start to use aas till i was 36yrs old weighed 190lbs at 5'10" and had trained natty for a solid 6yrs not counting the on and off years post high school...dont expect to gain 30lbs every cycle bro....

Exxxxaacctllyyyyy what i was thinking, 30-40lb? alot of NATURAL room to grow homie

**Sven7** · 10-25-2011, 06:43 PM

Haha, alright point taken, you guys are probably right. But to be fair, this site kind of has a double standard. It's always "you're too small to try gear" still have natty progress to go, and that is entirely a fair point, but where's the "hey man, maybe you should lay off the gear, you're big enough." Case and point for this Jerseystepup guy. I mean, if you're just looking at it from a health perspective, then the latter is a much more serious situation.

With that aside, I'm still at square one. I can't find any literature on people trying to keep gains from anadrol while cutting right after. Only things I could find were on keeping the gains while bulking and using the adrol as a jump start. I may have to be a research experiment and see if I can keep the gains. Ideally I'd go from 200 to 220 in 3 weeks, then back down to 200 in the next 7, having traded some fat for muscle. I don't think that's asking too much.

**hankdiesel** · 10-25-2011, 08:34 PM

Never try to "cut" immediately after you're trying to bulk. How could you possibly keep your gains? Keep your calories high and try to maintain your weight. Worrying about "cutting" many weeks later and you'll have a better chance at keeping some of those gains.

BG · 10-25-2011, 09:07 PM

I agree, I ruined a nice cycle by cutting afterwards. Its best just to cut with diet and cardio a good month after pct, makes it easier to maintain.

**Sven7** · 10-25-2011, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by hankdiesel

Never try to "cut" immediately after you're trying to bulk. How could you possibly keep your gains? Keep your calories high and try to maintain your weight. Worrying about "cutting" many weeks later and you'll have a better chance at keeping some of those gains.

Are you saying that the longer you keep your gains, the more permanent they are? My logic was that since I would be on test and anavar , I wouldn't lose nearly as much as if I was on nothing, and it would take less time. This way, when I entered PCT and am the most vulnerable to losing my gains, I can start to bulk again during this time.

**sizzlechest** · 10-25-2011, 10:28 PM

Run some test prop at 100 EOD. You will get what you want. Im on winny and prop now and in 3 weeks i have the same weight but I'm down 4% BF, that's a 10 lbs muscle gain for me. if you are afraid of needles then run Tbol instead, it will give you more size and you can cut as well.

**Sven7** · 10-29-2011, 05:24 PM

Well, I think you guys are probably right, so I decided to break it up into 2 different cycles. I figure 4 weeks winny and 4 weeks of anavar with test for cutting, just because 8 weeks of anavar is pretty expensive, then 8 of 10 weeks with deca , and 10 of 10 weeks test enth. Simple enough.

But I either want another compound, or to double my deca for the bulking cycle. Dunno which. Might frontload with dbol .

**hankdiesel** · 10-30-2011, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Sven7

Well, I think you guys are probably right, so I decided to break it up into 2 different cycles. I figure 4 weeks winny and 4 weeks of anavar with test for cutting, just because 8 weeks of anavar is pretty expensive, then 8 of 10 weeks with deca , and 10 of 10 weeks test enth. Simple enough.

But I either want another compound, or to double my deca for the bulking cycle. Dunno which. Might frontload with dbol.

That is not simple enough. Just pick a couple of compounds and the direction you want to go with it. Bulking or cutting. It is counterproductive to try an do both back to back. In your other post you said you were going to cut, bulk, and then cut again. Just decide what you want to do and do it. Go in one direction for a sustained period of time.