(____________Thoughts On My First Cycle Of AAS______________)

[DesPr8]

Stats age 33
W 200lb
H 6'2"
Training 2 years
BF% Unknown due to loose skin issues after loosing a lot of weight. My guess is 15-18%
Coming Off HGH and I have 1 last vial left. (kinda a waste if your not pinning 10iu daily and costs too much)

Clen & Test E (Workout: 1hr Cardio 30min Weights minimum)
And I will be doing each one separately, first Clen then Test after I'm done lowering my BF with Clen.

Clen: 2 weeks on and off for 6 weeks

Week 1: 20/40/60/80/100/120/120/Week 2: 120/120/100/80/60/40/20>14days
(Taurine 4-5g daily & Potassium 400mg.)

2 Weeks Off: benadryl, Caffeine and Jack3d. Note I cant get ephedrine for a ECA stack

Week 5: 20/40/60/80/100/120/120/Week 6: 120/120/100/80/60/40/20>14days
(Taurine 4-5g daily & Potassium 400mg.)

2 Weeks Off: benadryl, Caffeine and Jack3d

Testosterone Enanthate: 12 Weeks (Workout: 30min Cardio 1hr Weights minimum)

First 2 weeks break pin 250/250 just to see my reaction.
10 weeks 1 shot 500mgs

2 weeks after my last shot start PCT: Clom & Nolva

Keep working out and try to keep most of my gains and eat properly.
Then possibly start a Anavar Cycle 2 Months after my Test Cycle.

[gymfu]

Is this your first cycle? Have you read up on Clen ?
This looks ok to me. Are you doing your weights and cardio in the same trip to the gym? If so do your weights first then cardio, I noticed you listed them the other way.

[dec11]

Stats age 33
W 200lb
H 6'2"
Training 2 years
BF% Unknown due to loose skin issues after loosing a lot of weight. My guess is 15-18%
Coming Off HGH and I have 1 last vial left. (kinda a waste if your not pinning 10iu daily and costs too much)

Clen & Test E (Workout: 1hr Cardio 30min Weights minimum)
And I will be doing each one separately, first Clen then Test after I'm done lowering my BF with Clen.

Clen: 2 weeks on and off for 6 weeks

Week 1: 20/40/60/80/100/120/120/Week 2: 120/120/100/80/60/40/20>14days
(Taurine 4-5g daily & Potassium 400mg.)

2 Weeks Off: benadryl, Caffeine and Jack3d. Note I cant get ephedrine for a ECA stack

Week 5: 20/40/60/80/100/120/120/Week 6: 120/120/100/80/60/40/20>14days
(Taurine 4-5g daily & Potassium 400mg.)

2 Weeks Off: benadryl, Caffeine and Jack3d

Testosterone Enanthate: 12 Weeks (Workout: 30min Cardio 1hr Weights minimum)

First 2 weeks break pin 250/250 just to see my reaction.
10 weeks 1 shot 500mgs

2 weeks after my last shot start PCT: Clom & Nolva

Keep working out and try to keep most of my gains and eat properly.
Then possibly start a Anavar Cycle 2 Months after my Test Cycle.

you need 16wks off after your test e cycle before going on anything again or get bloods done after 10wks off to see where your levels are

[auslifta]

HGH would be good to run through this, right through PCT and 3 months after PCT if you've already started it. Test E should be shot twice a week, don't do weekly shots. Just keep dieting and cardio until your are ready to cycle-don't do the clen . Have you have blood work done?

[gymfu]

Sorry I see now it's your first cycle.

[gearbox]

I would pin twice a week. like monday morning thur night...get an ai to have on hand. and as dec11 said you need those weeks off to fully recover and get blood work done BEFORE you start another cycle again..good luck

[DesPr8]

Thanks for the response guys I choose to do this kind of cycle finally after diddling around with hgh.
Really didnt get what I truly wanted off it and its way too expensive for me.

Im afraid of getting bitch tits and all sorts or weird sides but F* it you only live once. I wanna be very careful and have my routine in check before even starting any gear.
Eating right and getting in a great workout and know as much as I can on what I'm using.

Gearbox: I only wanna try pinning twice just to test the waters lol. I've read that it stabilizes your blood better pinning twice but with Test-E it does make too much of a diffrence from my understanding.

auslifta: hgh is just too much for me now and as far as blood work I did get it done recently. Is there anything in particuler that I wanna look for in them?

dec11: thanks I did not know that, I appreciate it.

gymfu: Yes its my first time and I've read up on clen . And I really like to do cardio first as my preference cause I feel loose and limber after it and if I ate right usually I feel really amped to do weights. I did weights first and found I was cold and not pushing myself too much, so I it switched around and after a intense cardio session I love to get in my weight lifting time and can take my time with weights and relax when lifting really heavy. After I knocked out 1hr of cardio I can at times do 2 hrs of weights depending on the day.

[auslifta]

auslifta: hgh is just too much for me now and as far as blood work I did get it done recently. Is there anything in particuler that I wanna look for in them?

Shame on the HGH since you started, it would of really helped you keep gains from cycle and make cycle more effective. Get male hormone panel as a baseline to see if you have had a successful PCT when you get bW done after. Lipid profile as well.

[auslifta]

Further info lipid profile. The lipid profile includes total cholesterol, HDL-cholesterol (often called good cholesterol), LDL-cholesterol (often called bad cholesterol), and triglycerides. Sometimes the report will include additional calculated values such as total cholesterol/HDL ratio or a risk score based on lipid profile results, age, sex, and other risk factors.

[DesPr8]

Give me a sec ima post up my blood work for you and let me know what you think.

[DesPr8]

Check now I took the pix closer, sorry for the crappy pic but these should be better if not just lmk.

[auslifta]

Sorry mate I can't see shiit of those pics. Can you type them up?

[DesPr8]

check now

[auslifta]

Looks fine for 33 yo male. Were you on anything when this was taken?
FSH and LH little low but still normal, could be related to alot of factors sleep, alcohol etc. Def nothing to worry about.
Good to know your baseline

[DesPr8]

I actually thought my testosterone was slightly a little lower and at that time I was on nothing but a multivitamin.
I have a weakness for whiskey only thing messing me up plus I'm a night owl. I work nights I'm up usually at 1 to 2pm in the evening "/ kinda sux

I'm hoping this cycle gets me where I wanna be physically. I think its gonna be a good experience and hopefully I wont have any nasty side effect cause I've never had any bad reactions to any meds.
I have a mild allergic reaction to shellfish but besides that I'm in good health. If I start to gyno at any time during my test cycle should I hold off on taking clom & nolva or start right away with the test?

Hopefully I wont have nasty sides but you never know, plus the last thing that I need to figure out is (how I'm going to do the PCT since I've seen several methods and threads on it)
Any advice?

[xelnaga]

If you live in NY you can get your ephedrine from the pharmacy without an RX. It's called bronkaid.

[DesPr8]

If you live in NY you can get your ephedrine from the pharmacy without an RX. It's called bronkaid.

Thanks I just looked it up
25 ephedrine, bronkaid
200 caffeine
83 aspirin (if you go with the baby type)

Anyone has a good PCT with clom and Nolva to top off this thread?
BTW great stuff guys and thanks

[slfmade]

If you're taking clen ....don't take the ephedrine on your off weeks. As a matter of fact...if you're already taking off 2 weeks, don't use the benadryl. The benadryl is only used to upregulate your beta-2 receptors, and if you're taking 2 weeks off they will upregulate on their own so there's no need. Besides I've read a lot of people questioning the real life effects of benadryl for this purpose.

Also I personally don't agree with tapering down the clen...I would taper T3 if you were stacking (which some people argue isn't necessary, but I do it anyway), but I nevered tapered clen and I had no issues. It could just be me though so maybe wait until somebody either agrees with me or flames me for being wrong. Either way you get your answer.

I have no real-life aas experience so I'll keep my opinions to myself and let the vets advise you on that part.

Good luck and keep us updated.

[DesPr8]

If you're taking clen ....don't take the ephedrine on your off weeks. As a matter of fact...if you're already taking off 2 weeks, don't use the benadryl. The benadryl is only used to upregulate your beta-2 receptors, and if you're taking 2 weeks off they will upregulate on their own so there's no need. Besides I've read a lot of people questioning the real life effects of benadryl for this purpose.

Also I personally don't agree with tapering down the clen...I would taper T3 if you were stacking (which some people argue isn't necessary, but I do it anyway), but I nevered tapered clen and I had no issues. It could just be me though so maybe wait until somebody either agrees with me or flames me for being wrong. Either way you get your answer.

I have no real-life aas experience so I'll keep my opinions to myself and let the vets advise you on that part.

Good luck and keep us updated.

Naw dude I've actually read similar things about benadryl and was just thinking it wouldn't hurt since it makes you sleepy anyways lol. I dont sleep well at times due to my schedule.
And the whole T3 thing I just really dont wanna mess with thyroid meds at the moment and I like trying different things gradually as I understand it fully without no hesitations on it.
The whole ECA stack might be overrated but from what I've seen caffeine and stimulates lose there strength really fast with me. My body gets adjusted quick and stimulates lose almost all effect.
I like to take a little something something while I'm off so I might just stick with my first option of benadryl, caffeine and jack3d.

Thanks though bro I always appreciate any good comments into what I might ultimately end up doing.

[slfmade]

I actually really like the ECA stack, but I would never run it during my off weeks while running clen .

Also, I wasn't recommending that you take T3. I was simply stating that with T3 I believe it's important to taper the dose down; however, I think tapering the clen is a waste of money. I think some people think they should taper clen because they always hear of people tapering T3. Not necessary with clen IMO.

[DesPr8]

Hmm interesting, you think gradually starting and just staying at 120 with clen wouldn't hurt? I actually dont understand it myself why I have to lower my dose on clen after hitting the high point.
Maybe though after gradually going down it wont make it too bad to try a eca stack also, but idk really. My guess is by gradually going down you dont shock your system in anyway negatively.

[slfmade]

Personally (and I ran clen many times years and years ago) I always climbed to 140 or 160 and stopped at the 2 week mark. 2 weeks off, and back again. I never tapered down on "clen". I don't think it's necessary at all. But ask around and see what people think. I haven't researched it in years, but I really doubt it makes a difference.

[DesPr8]

After your 2 weeks off did you initially start again at a high point or went up gradually again?

[slfmade]

I always went up gradually. I might start at 20mcg higher than my 1st 2 weeks, but more or less I went up gradually. The last thing you wanta do is jump into too high at any point. And be ready for some fun headaches.

[DesPr8]

Well thanks slfmade I guess in the end im the only one who will know how I react and possibly might try not tampering down, unless I get more info on that. But it sounds all good and btw any good ways on doing my PCT? Dosing of Clom & Nolva and for how long? And what to do if I start getting boobs right away?

[slfmade]

Someone with experience with aas would be better to answer that than me. My only knowledge with pct has come from a bit of research, and I would hate to advise you on something and be wrong. So, I'll let them help you with that. It's pretty slow tonight, but maybe tomorrow you'll have more response.

[nikalexopoulos]

Okay guys...i'm the kid that posted that 6 page rant that got deleted. This is exactly what i'm talking about. You're all advising a guy who obviously doesn't have his lifting routine/diet in check to cycle!!! WTF??!! 6'2" 18%BF 200lbs??!! Most people could have better stats after 2 months of lifting. OP's obviously got hardly any muscle mass at all.

Dude grow up a little

[auslifta]

I actually thought my testosterone was slightly a little lower and at that time I was on nothing but a multivitamin.
I have a weakness for whiskey only thing messing me up plus I'm a night owl. I work nights I'm up usually at 1 to 2pm in the evening "/ kinda sux

I'm hoping this cycle gets me where I wanna be physically. I think its gonna be a good experience and hopefully I wont have any nasty side effect cause I've never had any bad reactions to any meds.
I have a mild allergic reaction to shellfish but besides that I'm in good health. If I start to gyno at any time during my test cycle should I hold off on taking clom & nolva or start right away with the test?

Hopefully I wont have nasty sides but you never know, plus the last thing that I need to figure out is (how I'm going to do the PCT since I've seen several methods and threads on it)
Any advice?

I only thought FSH and LH were low because your test was slightly low. Your body should naturally have lower and higher days. Usually when test is higher LH and FSH is lower and vice versa.
Run HCG throughout cycle up to PCT. 250iu's every 3 days.
PCT the basic Nolva/clomid protocol should suffice.

[gymfu]

do your cardio on an empty stomach in the morning...(water is okay) there was an article about 4 days ago on here about this topic and I saved the article in my word. I will apologize because I forgot who wrote it. (one of the vets) Dec11 knows who wrote it..and thanks again to the gentlemen that wrote it... here it is.

Cardio is a good fat burner. However, cardio can be a great fat burner if we look for ways to maximize the amount of body fat burned during cardio sessions. One of the easiest ways to encourage maximal fat burning is to do your cardio in the morning on a completely empty stomach, soon after rising and before eating. The reason is simple, in a “fasting” state (Ex. not having eaten for probably close to 10 hours), glucose – the basic energy component found on carbohydrates – circulates within the bloodstream at its lowest levels of the day. When this occurs, the body is more likely to turn to stored fuel – body fat – as energy. Upon the introduction of cardio, the body begins to look for fuel. If there are no significant amounts of glucose, the body responds by immediately digging into body fat stores for energy. Bingo.

The body will not utilize deep fat stores for energy during cardio if you have eaten before performing cardio. Instead, it will first take a look at what has recently been ingested – what you have eaten – and try to use that first before starting to utilize stores of body fat. Even a small meal, or a small carbohydrate snack, can inhibit fat burning by slowing the rate at which your body begins its search for stored body fat. Carbohydrates quickly digest into glucose, which alters the speed at which the body burns fat. In essence, food consumed before cardio exercise acts as a slowing agent, altering the body’s ability to burn body fat. On the other hand, with no food, there is no slowing effect and the body can quickly start burning body fat. Glucose, the digested form of carbohydrates, plays a big role in determining your fat burning status. With low levels, fat burning increases. With high levels of glucose, fat burning dramatically slows. To ensure you are burning as much body fat as possible, schedule your aerobic sessions in the morning, without food, to keep glucose levels flat.

The second reason to avoid eating before cardio exercise has to do with our pesky little friends, hormones. With a lack of food in the body, the prevailing hormones that kick into play immediately upon aerobic exercise are catecholamines and glucagon (try saying that five times fast). Catecholamines are tiny messengers released from the adrenal glands that are dumped into the blood with exercise. Their job is to target fat cells, helping them to open up, allowing fat to be liberated and burned as fuel. However, when you eat food, specifically carbohydrates, catecholamines become less effective at doing what you want them to do – help breakdown body fat. Glucagon is the second fat burning stimulus that increases upon exercise, especially when there is a lack of food in the body. Glucagon is a major player in fat burning as it helps kick start the entire fat burning process. Glucagon helps tear down fat cells and upgrade the enzymes that use body fat as energy. Specifically, glucagon supports the production of hormone sensitive lipase, (HSL) a gatekeeper on fat cells that helps determine the flow of fat. When HSL is active, it allows more fatty acids from body fat to flow into the blood where they can be burned as fuel. On the other hand, when HSL falls, the flow of fatty acids out of fat cells becomes greatly impaired. In addition, glucagon suppresses the activity of Malonyl CoA and supports Carnitine Palmityl Transferase 1 (CPT-1). Malonyl CoA influences the liver’s ability to start the fat building or fat storing process. As Malonyl CoA activity rises, fat storage increases and as it drops – by avoiding food before cardio- fat burning increases. CPT-1 is another enzyme that supports the burning of body fat by dragging fatty acids –from body fat – into muscle cells, where they are burned. When you avoid eating before cardio and allow the maximum production of glucagon, you’ll experience greater CPT-1 activity which facilitates the burning of body fat. On the other hand, when you eat before cardio, all these mechanisms are compromised; less potent catecholamine activity with negligible glucagon production translating into less active fat burning.

Another point on eating before cardio is that food, especially carbohydrates, increase insulin levels. Generally, insulin is known as a fat storing hormone . It makes catecholamines less effective at triggering the breakdown of body fat and it also suppresses the release of glucagon. Remember, our little friend glucagon is the chief hormone that sets in place fat burning and support (Glucagon sounds like a Transformer). Surprisingly, it does not take a lot of food to increase insulin levels and to block the maximal fat burning effects of aerobic exercise. Even a small piece of toast is enough in to trigger sufficient insulin production to set in motion a hormonal change to mildly interrupt or slow the fat burning effects of a hard 30-40 minute cardio session. In the world of maximizing fat loss, it’s just not a good idea to eat before cardio.

A lot of bodybuilders argue adding cardio to the end of a weight training session will exert the same effect as doing cardio in the morning on an empty stomach. The idea: weight training depletes the body of sugar in the blood, (glucose) which is akin to a fasting state. In other words, the hard training empties fuel from the bloodstream and when this occurs, it’s a great time to do cardio. They’re half right. Hardcore training does burn through glucose in the blood and it even lowers muscle glycogen stores. Both can favor the burning of body fat. If you jump on the treadmill after training, you might expect catecholamines, already floating about as a result of training, to target fat cells. In addition, with low glucose levels, you might also expect glucagon levels to be elevated. These two points can be considered true. However, the problem is duration. When training sessions become too long – be it cardio or weight training, catabolism (muscle breakdown!) sets in. Cortisol – a hormone that causes muscle breakdown – can rise too high as a result. When cardio is done after a weight training session, cortisol – one of the chief muscle wasting hormones – rises to unreasonable levels. Studies have shown cortisol to lower testosterone levels and trigger a rapid spike in free radicals. Free radicals ignite muscle inflammation, thereby knocking out the immune system and paralyzing muscle recovery. When you follow up your weight training sessions with cardio, you push the body over the edge into a quasi overtraining state. In this state, hormones like testosterone and other anabolic hormones in the body decline. As a result, it becomes very difficult to retain muscle mass.

Testosterone levels . They are the other reason that I am a huge “cardio in the morning advocate. Some studies indicate testosterone levels are higher in the morning and decline from there, only to experience a late afternoon surge. Doing cardio in the morning makes sense as it is scheduled at a time where one of the most anabolic hormones – testosterone – is at its peak. The higher testosterone level can act as an anti-catabolic, preserving muscle mass. By definition, aerobics is a potentially catabolic event. It does not “build the body up” but rather “tears it down.” We always hope that we are tearing down body fat to be used as fuel. Still, with a poor nutrition strategy or if you are borderline overtrained, aerobics can become truly catabolic. It can lower testosterone levels causing a loss of metabolic supporting muscle mass! Having a hormonal profile that is higher in testosterone levels will help spare the body from eating away at its own muscle. Crushing your cardio in the morning is the best way to ensure you can burn fat without sacrificing muscle mass.


I took this from another thread. Your really hurting your results by doing cardio first.

And I second that there's no need to taper down Clen .

[FONZY007]

If you live in NY you can get your ephedrine from the pharmacy without an RX. It's called bronkaid.

Does that go for Cali also?

[DesPr8]

Thanks auslifta you read my mind I was looking at taking hcg while on this cycle.

And gymfu Thanks for the article I've debated this theory a lot, and usually since I wake up late I'll grab a big coffee and head to the gym on a empty stomach.
There are days where i'm good then there are other days where I'm really hungry and sluggish while running on empty. I dont do it everyday like I use too so now if i'm hungry in the morning i'll grab something light like eggs on whole wheat.