Swifto How to avoid going for TRT in long cycles!

[molecule]

I would like to know your advice on how to keep the natural production of Test on during a long cycle. I am on my Week 26 of my 50 Week cycle. The cycle details are as under

Week 1 to week 15
750 Test E
600 Primo

Week 16 to Week 30
750 Test E
750 EQ
5 iu HGH 5 days a week.
Week 31 to Week 50
750 Test E
600 Primo
5 iu HGH 5 days a week.

Did my complete renal profie 2 weeks ago and all the reports are perfectly normal.
Provironum 50 Mg a day + multivitamins etc
I can feel testicular atrophy a little. Libido and hoods are perfect. No side atall.
My questions are:
Do I need to do any test like estrogen or anything else while on cycle?
Also for such long cycles do I need to does HCG on regular basis to avoid TRT?
Swifto any other suggestions pls!

[gonzo6183]

Youre asking this when you are already 6 months in? little late dont you think... Why are you cycling for a year anyway?

If you havent been using HCG already and clearly you had no ideas what you were doing going into this Im putting money on it that its too little too late. Could be time to pay the price for a stupid mistake.

Best bet would be to come off now and try to recover rather than staying on for another 6 months, thats your best bet if you want to avoid TRT IMO

[600@50]

Looks like your already on TRT. Just at 750mg a week. If you want any chance for recovery stop the cycle now. Best of luck on restarting your own system. At that dosage you've been shut down for awhile.

[slimshady01]

you might want some breaks in between there lol. I would think you would need to massivly up your dose every 10 weeks or so , or come off to a lower amount to deload.

I bet you platuea and just start to retain gains instead of actualling making progress.

If you plan on staying on this long at least look at Ronnie Rowlands Slingshot method.

Stay healthy bro, being on or off trt would be my last concern

[molecule]

Thanks all! Specialy slimshady01. liked ur reply! Very polite!

Forogot to add

Age: 31
Fat % : 10
History : this is my 7th Cycle

Still waiting for Swifto!

[adamjames]

I would check out Rowlands post on Slingshot training as slim suggested, it will explain a blast and cruise protocol which is what you need on a long cycle like this to continue making gains otherwise as slim said you will just end up maintaining for ages and not progressing, HCG should have been part of your original plan and should have been used at regular...ish intervals throughout

Im sure you will be able to recover still but you will need to start the hcg, lower the test dose and wean off and then start a heavy pct asap before going back on the gear

[AD]

Thanks all! Specialy slimshady01. liked ur reply! Very polite!

Forogot to add

Age: 31
Fat % : 10
History : this is my 7th Cycle

Still waiting for Swifto!

did you PM him? are you quite sure he comes in here regularly?

just curious, who did you learn this "cycle" from? is that person able to answer any of your questions?

[DanB]

What are the rest of your stats and what are your reasons behind running this cycle

Get on hcg asap if you want to have any hope of staying off trt

[darkcrayz]

run some hcg /hmg intermittenly and get your sperm count tested. then you will know if you get shut down or not.

branch warren/evan centopani just had babies while running, we all assume long cycles. it is possible. just need to find a doctor that can help you out.

[Pale1]

IMO, you'll be fine if you come off now. I was on Androgel for AT LEAST 6 months & I recovered well enough to get back in the normal range without even using any hcg . Use some hcg properly & I think you'll be fine.

[AD]

But androgel is a lot lower dose than 750mg of testE. So the level of shutdown and rate of recovery may be different.

[gonzo6183]

Thanks all! Specialy slimshady01. liked ur reply! Very polite!

Forogot to add

Age: 31
Fat % : 10
History : this is my 7th Cycle

Still waiting for Swifto!

Why do you need Swifto to tell you to stop... That is your best option if you want to recover, like everyone has told you already.

Yes the slingshot would be your best option to continue making gains but if your aim is to avoid TRT then you need to STOP, simple

[kelkel]

you might want some breaks in between there lol. I would think you would need to massivly up your dose every 10 weeks or so , or come off to a lower amount to deload.

I bet you platuea and just start to retain gains instead of actualling making progress.

If you plan on staying on this long at least look at Ronnie Rowlands Slingshot method.

Stay healthy bro, being on or off trt would be my last concern

^^Concur with Slim on this one.

[molecule]

Thanks everyone again! I have started reading slingshot.
From what little i could read till now. I was thinking of doing the following. (but this time only after approval from all u guys)

This week

Drop the EQ from 750 to 500
Drop Test from 750 to 500

Next week

Drop the EQ from 500 to 250
Drop Test from 500 to 250

Week 3 and 4 after

EQ will be 250 to 0
Test will continue at 250


Wanna know when to add HCG and how much. Advice pls.
Also if clome or adex is needed and how much

Regards

[gonzo6183]

Start running your HCG now, you need it straight away especially running cycles the way you are atm.

Why are you tapering down rather than stopping?

Would this be for a deload, for the slingshot?

Dont forget to actually avoid TRT like you specified as your main objective here you need to stop and recover completely then reassess how you cycle

[gonzo6183]

As for HCG dosing, I would suggest as you have been on so long already run 3 x 500 iu per week for a few weeks. Then it is going to depend on what your plan is... Id say run a full extended PCT then after bloodwork see where you are at

[molecule]

I would think a deload would be good cause if i go form 750 to 0 it will be a major crash. Plus in the mean time as i deload the HCG would help the natural production somewhere. I am not educated to know how it works but I am sure the HCG will mimic the LH but need clome and adix to get the rest of the process started too. Hence the dose of HCG plays a vital role along with other meds.

[daninho777]

Thanks everyone again! I have started reading slingshot.
From what little i could read till now. I was thinking of doing the following. (but this time only after approval from all u guys)

This week

Drop the EQ from 750 to 500
Drop Test from 750 to 500

Next week

Drop the EQ from 500 to 250
Drop Test from 500 to 250

Week 3 and 4 after

EQ will be 250 to 0
Test will continue at 250


Wanna know when to add HCG and how much. Advice pls.
Also if clome or adex is needed and how much

Regards

You really didn't get slingshot at all, keep reading. Anyway your cycle is so all over the place that I don't even know if a deload would even be effective at this point. If you're dead set on continuing then you might be better off going a cruise for a few weeks on 250 mg/wk of test then blast again. Or if you insist then a deload consists of dropping down to 250mg/wk for 2 weeks and then upping the dose for 8 weeks and deload again and so on. But you need to couple this with the correct training for slingshot.

Start running hcg now if you're going to continue!

But the best thing that you can do is stop all together plan a strong pct do an hcg blast and hope that you recover. Then learn how to cycle properly.

[slimshady01]

Thanks everyone again! I have started reading slingshot.
From what little i could read till now. I was thinking of doing the following. (but this time only after approval from all u guys)

This week

Drop the EQ from 750 to 500
Drop Test from 750 to 500

Next week

Drop the EQ from 500 to 250
Drop Test from 500 to 250

Week 3 and 4 after

EQ will be 250 to 0
Test will continue at 250


Wanna know when to add HCG and how much. Advice pls.
Also if clome or adex is needed and how much

Regards

A deload would be TEST Only 250 mg for 2 weeks. You come off every thing else. I would then after those 2 weeks "or 10 days after those 2 weeks" start your PCT come off for some months and let your body refresh. You may even want to give blood to lower hemocrit levels.

During that time learn to plan your cycles better. If you want to be on longer then the avg 12 week cycle read Ronnies entire thread and do it right.

[molecule]

Thanks once again!

I dont mind comming off cycle, or doing the slingshot. But I scare loosing the muscle mass.

Hence I thought I would deload and add HCG and the after 4 weeks do the slingshot of 8 Load and 2 deload.

[Swifto]

50 weeks at 750mg Test Enan is a lot, I sincerly hope you've been using an AI during that time frame and also HCG throughout, taking breaks after 10-12 weeks and back on? Increased estrogen over long peroids can cause a lot of caridovascular problems, such as CHD.

Do you compete?

You said you had BW, how your RBC and hemocrit? Blood pressure? Renal and liver function? Lipids? Tryglicerides?

I'm pretty sure some of those readings are not going to be in normal ranges on that dose of Test for 50 weeks, but I could be wrong, some tolerate AAS a lot better than others. If I were using that dose, I'd also want an echocardiogram too.

[lovbyts]

I think it would be advisable to also do all of the above Swifto suggested every 90 days or so the keep thing in check if not more frequent.

[molecule]

Swifto My bad! I didnt take HCG nor AI. I was on Provironum 50 MG ED throughout though. The Lipids renals and BP are perfect. I am not done with 50 weeks though, completed 26 weeks. I know it could be a little too late but I need help from you on this. Should I drop my Test to 250 mg for 2 weeks and add HCG. And then shift to Slingshot?

[gonzo6183]

Molecule... Is your main focus here to avoid going on to TRT as you specified in your first post?

If it is everyone here is offering good advice but they need to be more specific to what you want and the thread seems to be jumping all over the place atm.

Please clear this up, are you trying to avoid going on to TRT? If so try to focus the discussion around this to get the best advice. Which btw is STOP and recover

[molecule]

Need 2 things

1) Reatin the muscle which i have gained if not increase it atleast.

2) Avoid TRT later in my life.


Sorry for the confusion! Hence I thought of Slingshot cause that will not just help me in the muscle section but also keep the natural production on. I dont mind being on gear all my life if its gonna make me bigger :P

[slimshady01]

Need 2 things

1) Reatin the muscle which i have gained if not increase it atleast.

2) Avoid TRT later in my life.


Sorry for the confusion! Hence I thought of Slingshot cause that will not just help me in the muscle section but also keep the natural production on. I dont mind being on gear all my life if its gonna make me bigger :P

Bro why you doing this? Are you competing as Swifto asked? why would you care about TRT , it seems like you dont care if you are going to be on the rest of your life so why not TRT? At least with TRT you can come off to a lower dose like 200mg a week for a few months in between and not lose as much mass as doing a PCT.

Staying on high doses for a long period of time in my opinion makes you stop growing and sets up a bad environment for side effects etc. Your body regulates to those high doses and will most likely just start to retain. Your blood will thicken like sludge making you more at risk for stroke and heart attack.

I have a buddy that rolls like you, he never comes off and stays on high doses year round. Yet he is always complaining to me that his sex drive sucks, he cant gain any size and feels tired all the time ETC. I keep telling him he needs to get off and give his damn body a break but he is so paranoid he will shrink and it will depress him.

Finally he was forced to come off due to a surgical operation so i had him go to 1cc a week during a 3 month period. He recently is able to train again and went back up to his normal dosage and is feeling great. Its like a new cycle for him, he is telling me he is horny all over again, strength is better then before and he is seeing changes again!.

I think now he will finally listen to me and DELOAD frequently to keep things fresh.

[AD]

Need 2 things

1) Reatin the muscle which i have gained if not increase it atleast.

2) Avoid TRT later in my life.


Sorry for the confusion! Hence I thought of Slingshot cause that will not just help me in the muscle section but also keep the natural production on. I dont mind being on gear all my life if its gonna make me bigger :P

i think doing a 2wk deload is not going to turn on your natural production. by now, your natty should be near zero. the deload is just to let the androgen receptors take a break and not down-regulate too much.

the only way to re-start your natty test is to stop everything completely and do a pct. even taking hcg isn't going to re-start it. hcg will just maintain the size of the balls, it doesnt help with natural test production while you're still on high dose gear.

[molecule]

So the best to just go off! Not to taper down!

Also pls tell me a PCT protocol to follow which will get my natural production back to normal!

slimshady01 thanks for being very patient, ur not just guiding me but also helping me clear my own thoughts!

[molecule]

*bump*

[gonzo6183]

Considering yo uhave been on for 6 months I would suggest you start the following PCT protocol:

Clomid 100/100/50/50/25/25
Nolva 40/40/20/20/10/10

I would suggest using HCG at 250-500iu per day for the last week-10 days before you start PCT and while the test is clearing your system, I found this method very helpful.

I would then get bloodwork done to see where you are atmaybe once PCT finishes or a month or so later, I guess that depends on how you feel

Triptorelin is something you may want to research and consider using (I plan to use it myself in the future)

Thats just my opinion

Hope that helps a bit.

Gonzo

[slimshady01]

So the best to just go off! Not to taper down!

Also pls tell me a PCT protocol to follow which will get my natural production back to normal!

slimshady01 thanks for being very patient, ur not just guiding me but also helping me clear my own thoughts!

No prob bro best of luck.