Advice For First Cycle

**FancyLad** · 04-14-2003, 01:03 AM

I'm planning on doing my first cycle in about 3 months and was wondering if this looked like a good cycle. btw...I'm 5'8" 170 and 20.

Test Eth. 400 mg/week 1-10
Deca 300 mg/week 1-10
Dbol 25 mg/day 1-4

I'm planning on getting clomid. Also planning on getting a good anti-e.
Do I need to supplement milk thistle (just wondering cause it's not a heavy cycle). Thanks.

**Red5** · 04-14-2003, 07:22 AM

Save the Deca for a later cycle and run the rest as you've stated.Milk thistle won't hurt or Liv 52, ALA.Drinking plenty of water is one the best things you can do for your liver.

**Magicz** · 04-14-2003, 07:35 AM

why to save the deca ????????????????????????????

**Slypknot** · 04-14-2003, 07:49 AM

My first cycle was similar with excellent results!

Wk 1-12 Test@500mg
Wk 1-12 Deca @400mg
Wk 9-15 Winny@50mg ED
[email protected] ED
Wk 15-18 Clomid therapy

Nolva on hand incase of gyno symptoms (which I actually had!)...

**Red5** · 04-14-2003, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by Magicz
why to save the deca????????????????????????????

It's his first cycle, he doesn't need it.He will get just as good gains off the test.

**Slypknot** · 04-14-2003, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by Red5

It's his first cycle, he doesn't need it.He will get just as good gains off the test.

Sorry but I don't agree. Deca has some excellent bulking properties to it combined with easing pain on joints it's a fantastic AS stacker - regardless if it's your first/second cycle. I'm extremely pleased with what I gained from my first cycle and Deca was a serious part of it.

**956Vette** · 04-14-2003, 10:53 AM

i agree with slypknot, take the deca , looks good.

***JohnnyB*** · 04-14-2003, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by Red5

It's his first cycle, he doesn't need it.He will get just as good gains off the test.

I agree with red5. I'm glad some of you have used deca for they're first cycle, but it not for everyone. Here's my take on stacking on your first cycle. Say he goes with test and deca, he begins to develop signs of gyno, is it from estrogen or progesterone? He wouldn't know because it's his first time with both drugs. Where if he did test only first with no side effects, then added deca and experianced side effects he knows it's the deca.

Save orals for your third cycle atleast. Go test first cycle, second add a drug, third up your doses or a third drug, injectable or oral. You have plenty of time to stack, if you blow it out on your first you'll only go up in doses, like having to do over a gram or more to see results.

JohnnyB

**Lift Chief** · 04-14-2003, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by JohnnyB
I agree with red5. I'm glad some of you have used deca for they're first cycle, but it not for everyone. Here's my take on stacking on your first cycle. Say he goes with test and deca, he begins to develop signs of gyno, is it from estrogen or progesterone? He wouldn't know because it's his first time with both drugs. Where if he did test only first with no side effects, then added deca and experianced side effects he knows it's the deca.

Save orals for your third cycle atleast. Go test first cycle, second add a drug, third up your doses or a third drug, injectable or oral. You have plenty of time to stack, if you blow it out on your first you'll only go up in doses, like having to do over a gram or more to see results.

JohnnyB

I totally agree.
A great first cycle would be test only at 500mg EW for 10 weeks along with an anti-e if needed.

Once you see how you react to gear you can go from there.

The whole receptor downregulation over time idea has been proven to be a myth so there is no reason not to take it easy on your first cycle.

**Ozzy** · 04-14-2003, 12:59 PM

Fancylad.....Get some Liquidex for bloat and it will also do very well as an anti-e. BUT always have nolva on hand ! HOWEVER...if you do run the deca make sure to get some bromo in case the gyno does appear and it's from the deca...as nolva will not combat deca induced gyno.

**Red5** · 04-14-2003, 02:00 PM

Lift Chief and JohnnyB,
Thanks for supporting my point of view, i sometimes feel like I'm swimming against the tide with the low dose point of view.

***Pheedno*** · 04-14-2003, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by FancyLad
I'm planning on doing my first cycle in about 3 months and was wondering if this looked like a good cycle. btw...I'm 5'8" 170 and 20.

Test Eth. 400 mg/week 1-10
Deca 300 mg/week 1-10
Dbol 25 mg/day 1-4

I'm planning on getting clomid. Also planning on getting a good anti-e.
Do I need to supplement milk thistle (just wondering cause it's not a heavy cycle). Thanks.

I'd drop the dbol, up your Test to 500 and keep the Deca how it is.
Wk1-11 500mg Enan
Wk1-10 300mg Deca
Clomid 2wks after last test.

I see no problem with stacking for a first. When your talking about gyno from Estrogen or Progesterone, the thing to remember is it's a matter of ratio's. In order for progesterone to form, estrogen has to be decreased. Thats not going to happen unless test is decreased. And with those doses above, the Deca will not be able to supress the test substantially enough to lower estrogen, thereby elevating progesterone.
If gyno shows up in that cycle, it's estrogen.

I will say you should do what your comfortable with. If one is the way you feel you want to gom then go that way. Never force yourself to do something that you not comfortable with just to increase gains, because more gear does not always mean more gains. In this case, I think the combo would be better than the single.

***JohnnyB*** · 04-14-2003, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by Red5
Lift Chief and JohnnyB,
Thanks for supporting my point of view, i sometimes feel like I'm swimming against the tide with the low dose point of view.

Your not Bro, but there is always two side to the issue. That's why these boards are here for, so people can get both sides and make thier own decision. All we can do is present the case and let them make the decision

JohnnyB

**956Vette** · 04-14-2003, 03:53 PM

Red, Lift Chief and JohnnyB, i agree with everything you all said. However, when someone is ready to take a cycle, they should also be ready for the possible consequences. I know it unfortunately takes time and experience to understand the risk/benefit ratio of taking these drugs, but i would still use the deca in the cycle. Especially because of the way the body reacts to the first cycle.
I think fancy could get great results from just:
400mg enan/week 1-10
200mg deca/week 1-10
with nolv, bromo, and clomid, and drop the dbol
Let me know your opinions johnny, red, and lift, because i do respect your imput

**UltimateFighter** · 04-14-2003, 03:59 PM

keep the deca . My first cycle I got 25 pounds from it alone.

**papapump112** · 04-14-2003, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by JohnnyB
I agree with red5. I'm glad some of you have used deca for they're first cycle, but it not for everyone. Here's my take on stacking on your first cycle. Say he goes with test and deca, he begins to develop signs of gyno, is it from estrogen or progesterone? He wouldn't know because it's his first time with both drugs. Where if he did test only first with no side effects, then added deca and experianced side effects he knows it's the deca.

Save orals for your third cycle atleast. Go test first cycle, second add a drug, third up your doses or a third drug, injectable or oral. You have plenty of time to stack, if you blow it out on your first you'll only go up in doses, like having to do over a gram or more to see results.

JohnnyB

I definately agree with whats been said here and although im no expert i know im glad i went this route with previous cycles... These are just one mans experiences though so do what you will... Keep us posted...

***JohnnyB*** · 04-14-2003, 04:26 PM

956Vette, my take on it is 400-500mg of AAS for your first will give you what ever your going to gain on a first cycle. If you train, eat and rest correctly. I believe that doing 900-1000mg on your first is only going to get you to having to use a gram of test a week faster. Your only going to add more water when you go passed what your receptors can handle. So you gain 25-30lbs with a deca and test cycle at close to a gram a week, how much of that is water. So you take anti-e's to reduce water retention, but you also hinder your gain some and mess with your lipid profile, so what's the point. Your just adding more drugs, if you have to add a drug to help with sides, why not save the money, do your body a favor and lower the dose to test only. Because in all reality your not going to gain that much more if any.

Now if you've done 3-4 cycle then that's a different story, your more aware of how your body reacts to the drugs your taking.

Like I mentioned in my first post add a drug a cycle and so on.

JohnnyB

**956Vette** · 04-14-2003, 04:36 PM

thanks a lot johnnyb, i love learning. You do have good points-that i had never considered. Keep up the great posts! Thanks again, vette

**Slypknot** · 04-14-2003, 07:16 PM

Guys, please correct me as I may seriously be wrong - But I remember reading quite a few threads which delved into Deca actually causing progesterone gyno and how it was NOT proven to do so....

Most of the bro's I've talked to in the gym (as well as have read on here) have taken B6 or Vitex to combat the prolactin issues caused and then simply nolva for gyno symptoms.

I personally DID experience gyno symptoms while running Deca/Sust my first cycle. I was able to obtain bromo but upon taking it I threw up for the next several hours (obviously not taking any of it in)... I pounded Nolva and added Liquidex and the gyno went away.

Granted the above may have been luck - but again from readin I seem to remember a lengthy discussion which ended with no significant proof that Deca/Fina gyno was caused by progesterone.