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  1. #1
    fanof's Avatar
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    testosterone derivative help?

    i understand dht derivatives cannot aromatize and do not cause any estrogenic side effects (with the exception of anadrol )...

    are there any testosterone derivatives that do not aromatize??

  2. #2
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    found halotestin .. cant find any others

  3. #3
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    When you cycle in the future, you will have to add Test as the base of your cycle and it will aromatize.

    In order to control estrogen related side effects that aromatization brings about, you will need to use an AI.

    There is no easy way out of this, not yet.

    The sooner you learn about these facts, readier you will be when time comes.

  4. #4
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    okay yeah, after reading tons of duscussions, its obvious that the general consensus is using plain old test as a base to any cycle... but why is this?

    most people say "its beacuase testosterone is one of your body's natural hormones"... why is it so important to use a synthetic version of a natural hormone? surely that isnt a good enough reason

    the other reason is that it easily aromatizes, and at decent levels in the body is great for putting on mass... but you do get other aas that will give you estro, and what about cutting cycles where mass is not the main goal and estro is generally counter productive

    and even with this esrtrogen reasoning, you get lots of people who recommened using test with a strong ai like letro, and then your estrogen will be very low anyway, so why not just use a compound that cannot aromatize anyways?

    i have absalutely no argument with using test as the staple base to any cycle, id just like to know why from someone who undersands it, instead of someone just parroting it because they read it on the internet

  5. #5
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    It is not because testosterone is one of your body's natural hormones, it is the male hormone which you shut down when you inject yourself with synthetic derivatives of it. This is exactly why you ought to replace it with its synthetic counterpart in its absence.

    Even if you were to cycle with a DHT only, between dosing and duration, your natural test levels would be suppressed, which will too eventually lead to a complete shut down. Again, replacing natural test with its synthetic counterpart will emerge as a necessity.

    Estrogen is generally not counter productive when it comes to building and maintaining muscle. Elevated estrogen levels lead to bloating but so do carb and sodium intake. Diet is the major determinant of how you look, not the title of a given cycle nor the compounds employed for the specific purpose. One can maintain a lean physique with Test E and an AI if diet and training are spot on, whereas another may not with a DHT stack.

    Whether your estrogen will be very low rather depends on the dosing and intake frequency of an AI as opposed to the particular AI itself. Furthermore, whether your estrogen will be very low will be also determined by how elevated it is before you start suppressing it with an AI, as the level of estrogen on cycle will change from person to person. Only blood work can offer a comprehensive vision regarding controlling estrogen.

    As for your last sentence; you are clearly not in a position to argue for or against Test being used as the staple base to any cycle since you are hardly informed about AAS and just is as confused as any other newbie. So try to keep it humble and not spill big words like you did in your last sentence above.
    Last edited by Turkish Juicer; 05-09-2012 at 11:34 AM.

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    thanks man, very comprehensive answer appreciate it... i was expecting to get an answer like just your top paragraph

    sorry, didnt mean to come off like that in the last paragraph, just didnt wana get flamed, like ive seen happen to some other guys on forums trying to advocate 'testless' cycles

  7. #7
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    We have a few users who advocate ''testless'' cycles here as well. I know one of them has been very persistent with his rhetoric that I tend to disagree with but I still respect other opinions.

    We also have many users here who have run cycles without Test and ended up with a terrible cycle experience, as one may imagine why and how.

    You can run a DHT compound or any other modified Test at low doses and most likely NOT experience a complete shut down. My first (novice) cycle was 200mg Primobolan Depot EW for 8 weeks and I did not even feel any suppression, let alone shut down never took place. Nonetheless, growth was nowhere close to how I would have grown on 400mg of Test Prop utilized for the same time frame. To sum up, it is a give and take: you can run these compounds at low doses and NOT experience shut down, but they won't do much for you other than slightly increasing protein synthesis and serving a rather anti-catabolic purpose. If you run them at higher doses, then you will certainly experience a complete suppression, meaning a shut down, which is also why presence of synthetic Test will be a necessity.

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    wow i never new running low doses of dht wouldnt cause much supression!
    please forgive me if this sounds dumb, but does that mean if you ran say 20mg winny oral for a short time like 2 weeks, you wouldnt be suppressed and youd experience a boost in protein synthesis?? and you wouldnt need pct, coz you wont be shut down??

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    i did find this article. quite interesting
    also the one part said the biggest factor of hpta shut down was estrogen in the body, is that why an ai work actually increase natty test a little?

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    couldnt post a link, coz im a noob

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanof View Post
    i did find this article. quite interesting
    also the one part said the biggest factor of hpta shut down was estrogen in the body, is that why an ai work actually increase natty test a little?
    Yes, ratio of high estrogen to low test is a major reason of HTPA shutdown and HTPA recovery will not be performed unless this is fixed, which is another reason why we recommend Nolvadex for PCT.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanof View Post
    wow i never new running low doses of dht wouldnt cause much supression!
    please forgive me if this sounds dumb, but does that mean if you ran say 20mg winny oral for a short time like 2 weeks, you wouldnt be suppressed and youd experience a boost in protein synthesis?? and you wouldnt need pct, coz you wont be shut down??
    Here we go again.

    20mg Winstrol for 2 weeks (or for 8 weeks for that matter) will barely do anything, which is why there is no point in cycling it like that, if you could of course call that a cycle.

    Level of suppression is always determined by dosing and duration of a compound, not to mention some compounds are much more suppressive than others. For instance, 100mg of Deca Durabolin will cause a major suppression whereas 200mg of Primobolan Depot will not cause a similar level of suppression, it won't even be a close comparison.

    Like I have stated in my first response, there is no easy way out nor there are any shortcuts. When you are ready to cycle in the future, you will have to go through suppression, meaning that you will need an AI and HCG to manage OCT as well as PCT, assuming that you will be cycling to grow. You can try to beat around bush but sooner or later you are going to have to just deal with a cycle as it is supposed to be dealt with.
    Last edited by Turkish Juicer; 05-10-2012 at 12:10 AM.

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