First pin forgot to purge

**ozsurf** · 05-29-2012, 02:12 AM

Hi I feel like such a fool but I forgot to purge my first pin because I was so nervous.

What have I done ? !
What are the main things that could happen worst case

Sorry to waste u guys time with such a stupid thing

Thanks alot

**dooie** · 05-29-2012, 02:16 AM

Originally Posted by ozsurf

Hi I feel like such a fool but I forgot to purge my first pin because I was so nervous.

What have I done ? !
What are the main things that could happen worst case

Sorry to waste u guys time with such a stupid thing

Thanks alot

U probably wouldn't of had time to post this if u had done something wrong haha! Not srs, when did u do it?

**ozsurf** · 05-29-2012, 02:32 AM

Ha ha vry funny about 40 mins

**lovbyts** · 05-29-2012, 02:44 AM

No joke, if there was anything that would have gone wrong it would have by now and you would not have time to ask.

**ozsurf** · 05-29-2012, 02:51 AM

Ok thanks that will never happen again

**Bonaparte** · 05-29-2012, 03:45 AM

What are you talking about? You mean you forgot to aspirate ?

**ironbeck** · 05-29-2012, 03:47 AM

yea..lol i think he meant to say aspirate not purge......unless he is pinning peyote.

**MickeyKnox** · 05-29-2012, 05:37 PM

maybe he thinks he needs to stick his fingers down his throat after he pins?

yes, i believe purge = aspirate in this case.

**Times Roman** · 05-29-2012, 05:45 PM

mate, i stopped aspirating over a year ago....

....just slam it in the glute and drive it home.

**austinite** · 05-29-2012, 05:48 PM

I only aspirate in the quads.

**JohnnyVegas** · 05-29-2012, 05:58 PM

I aspirate everywhere. I have had the cough twice from spots that I did aspirate and I would hate to find out what would have happened if I had pushed the plunger the few times that I have seen blood while aspirating.

**oscarjones** · 05-29-2012, 05:59 PM

I only aspirate in quads and biceps... or if its a substance that's lethal if injected into your circulatory system... like 2-3mL of air..

**kif** · 05-29-2012, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by ozsurf

Hi I feel like such a fool but I forgot to purge my first pin because I was so nervous.

What have I done ? !
What are the main things that could happen worst case

Sorry to waste u guys time with such a stupid thing

Thanks alot

No question is stupid bro, rather you'd ask questions than screw yourself up. You'll be fine though!

**Bonaparte** · 05-29-2012, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by oscarjones

I only aspirate in quads and biceps... or if its a substance that's lethal if injected into your circulatory system... like 2-3mL of air..

It would take at least several dozen mls of air injected IV to harm a healthy male (but more likely, hundreds of ml). So no worries there.
The only real place that air is dangerous to inject would be the carotid artery, since it goes straight to the brain.

**kelkel** · 05-29-2012, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

mate, i stopped aspirating over a year ago....

....just slam it in the glute and drive it home.

Knew a girl like that once. Kinda miss her now....

**BIGB** · 05-29-2012, 11:36 PM

its actually 10 cc of air and you worry about it because it cause's an air embolism in your pulmonary circulation which then causes an oxygenation issues no diffusion to part of the lung the embolism has stopped the blood flow. which if large enough would cause right heart failure and then death. happens quite fast.

**small_fry** · 05-30-2012, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by BIGB

its actually 10 cc of air and you worry about it because it cause's an air embolism in your pulmonary circulation which then causes an oxygenation issues no diffusion to part of the lung the embolism has stopped the blood flow. which if large enough would cause right heart failure and then death. happens quite fast.

seriously, are u from canada?

**Capebuffalo** · 05-30-2012, 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Knew a girl like that once. Kinda miss her now....

Now that's funny. I still remember her name

**oscarjones** · 05-30-2012, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

It would take at least several dozen mls of air injected IV to harm a healthy male (but more likely, hundreds of ml). So no worries there.
The only real place that air is dangerous to inject would be the carotid artery, since it goes straight to the brain.

Hm, that's not what I learned in Nursing school.

Originally Posted by BIGB

its actually 10 cc of air and you worry about it because it cause's an air embolism in your pulmonary circulation which then causes an oxygenation issues no diffusion to part of the lung the embolism has stopped the blood flow. which if large enough would cause right heart failure and then death. happens quite fast.

^This, more or less.

AD · 05-30-2012, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

It would take at least several dozen mls of air injected IV to harm a healthy male (but more likely, hundreds of ml). So no worries there.
The only real place that air is dangerous to inject would be the carotid artery, since it goes straight to the brain.

true. arterial air embolism is a lot more deadly than venous air embolism.

**calstate23** · 05-30-2012, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by ozsurf

Hi I feel like such a fool but I forgot to purge my first pin because I was so nervous.

What have I done ? !
What are the main things that could happen worst case

Sorry to waste u guys time with such a stupid thing

Thanks alot

Purge?? Ha ha you mean aspirate ....

It's really just a precaution and as long as you are doing it in the butt cheeks (In the correct spot) it's pretty rare for your needle to find it's way directly into a vein/"artery"...

And even so, the main concern is air that could be pushed into. And still, to actually kill yourself you would basically have to do it on purpose because it would take quite a few ml's...

If it did happen you'd probably get a few coughs

**Bonaparte** · 05-30-2012, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by BIGB

its actually 10 cc of air and you worry about it because it cause's an air embolism in your pulmonary circulation which then causes an oxygenation issues no diffusion to part of the lung the embolism has stopped the blood flow. which if large enough would cause right heart failure and then death. happens quite fast.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/761367-overview#2

**oscarjones** · 05-30-2012, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/761367-overview#2

I was off a bit. However, multiple hundreds of CC's of air is a bit exaggerated I believe. It states, in your link under pathophysiology, about 20mL has been reported to cause issues, which is understandable because that's the volume of most IV tubes in hospitals.

However, as you stated Bona - if injected in an arty or vein close to the heart or brain, it can take much less air (I think your link stated as little as 0.5mL) to cause myocardial infarction or cerebrovascular accident. (Heart attack, and stroke respectively).

**BIGB** · 05-30-2012, 03:06 PM

We could argue numbers, but the reality is a small amount of air enter into your vascular system and not absorbed could end up some times causing catastrophic events to follow.

**oscarjones** · 05-30-2012, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by BIGB

We could argue numbers, but the reality is a small amount of air enter into your vascular system and not absorbed could end up some times causing catastrophic events to follow.

Exactly, so don't go pinning air intentionally!

On a serious note, always purge!

**Bonaparte** · 05-30-2012, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by oscarjones

I was off a bit. However, multiple hundreds of CC's of air is a bit exaggerated I believe. It states, in your link under pathophysiology, about 20mL has been reported to cause issues, which is understandable because that's the volume of most IV tubes in hospitals.

But that 20ml is surely in a child or geriatric patient with COPD and one foot in the grave anyway. So a healthy 200 lb male could surely handle a lot more air. Many medical texts list 2ml/kg as an approximation, but an exact number is impossible to ascertain for a number of (fairly obvious) reasons.

**iSwanson** · 05-30-2012, 09:26 PM

You aspirate (not purge) to make sure you're not in a blood vessel. By now you would have felt some extreme side effect if you would have injected any steroid directly into your blood stream. It's a small step but very important, although if your using your IM sites correctly you are probably safe. If you mean you didn't "purge" the remaining air out you should be fine as long as your in an IM site. Even straight into a blood vessel a few mLs won't do much of anything unless you have preexisting lung or heart problems. In nursing school you are taught with some medications that can stain the skin (that's right stain) like iron, folic acid, ect. to actually pull up an additional 0.2mL of air and inject using a "Z-Track" method to make sure the medication stays where it is supposed to (in the muscle).