The ultimate LIVER thread and info on orals and ORAL TOXICITY!!

[gixxerboy1]

Nice post Atomini, glad to see you back on more

[Atomini]

Thanks gixx, we've needed a good consumate thread on the liver and I could never find one. I figured i'd make one myself and allow people to discuss and add to it in the thread. This is important stuff!

I'll be around here more. Just was on and off the last year or 2 because of the busyness of life.

[Atomini]

Hey here's an update, guys: you can buy UDCA from the board sponsor here

[Atomini]

Bump.

[Atomini]

Bump.

[sharmabrah]

Bump.

In your opinion Atomini, is UDCA or TUDCA the "better" supplement so to speak?

[Atomini]

There really is no difference. I have done some of the research myself and found that the jury is still out on which one is 'better'.

TUDCA is UDCA with a taurine amino acid chemically bound to the UDCA molecule. Hence the name Tauroursodeoxycholic acid. TUDCA is the taurine conjugate of ursodeoxycholic acid. It simply converts to UDCA when in your body.

There have been claims made that TUDCA is 'superior' to UDCA in bioavailability to the body, but ultimately this has never been proven. In the end, they're the same damn thing.

Someone in another thread asked if supplementing taurine with UDCA would be the same thing as taking TUDCA. Supplementing taurine with it is NOT the same as it being tauroursodeoxycholic acid, where the taurine amino acid is actually chemically bonded to the ursodeoxycholic acid structure. That's like saying throwing wheels in the back of the trunk of your car is the same thing as driving with the wheels ON the car. As I mentioned prior, TUDCA is touted to provide superior bioavailability over straight UDCA. But it hasn't been proven.

TUDCA is just a conjugate of UDCA. They are the exact same thing, they do the same job, they are reduced to the same stuff when processed in the GI tract.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...030.x/abstract

http://www.gastrojournal.org/article...*45-3/abstract

From the first link:

Conclusions  
After oral administration of TUDCA and UDCA, no significant differences in their absorption and in biliary bile acid secretion exist. Whether biliary enrichment with taurine conjugates of UDCA instead of glycine conjugates offers advantages in the treatment of cholestatic liver disease is unclear at present.

From the second link:

COnclusions: Low doses of TUDCA and UDCA protect Hep G2 cells from EtOH-induced cytotoxicity. However, TUDCA seems to be more effective than UDCA in reversing the damage.

[Atomini]

Bump.

[Atomini]

Bump.

[slimshady01]

Bump.

Pm u

[HawaiianPride.]

Do you know where UDCA comes from?

It isn't pretty.
I'll just limit my use of orals to Anavar and stick to NAC (which replenished glutathione stores in the liver).

Love me some niccity NAC.

[slimshady01]

I only run var as a oral I may try 100mg next year since I got 50 mg caps .

Also going to try Tbol at. 50 to 75mg.

How important is tudca on these orals on these doses . I run liv52 year round.

[Atomini]

I only run var as a oral I may try 100mg next year since I got 50 mg caps .

Also going to try Tbol at. 50 to 75mg.

How important is tudca on these orals on these doses . I run liv52 year round.

I think TUDCA is important when using orals at any dose. Granted, low doses of oral AAS are not going to present much of a problem for your liver. But why run things that are liver toxic at ANY level without that assurance in protection? The use of something like TUDCA/UDCA also increases the efficiency of the liver by promoting proper bile flow, and may therefore increase the absorbtion of oral AAS. A backed up liver that is not flowing properly with bile is not processing anything efficiently, including any oral anabolics you are ingesting.

[slimshady01]

Thanks bro!

[Atomini]

No problem. Liver health (especially in depth) is a very under-covered topic around here and in the AAS using community in general. Trying to shed some more light on it!

[imapolarbear]

great thread

[Farid]

very informative, thank you +1

[ata1979]

Best natural remedy for liver health is eating an artichoke everyday.

[slimshady01]

Best natural remedy for liver health is eating an artichoke everyday.

Interesting !

[livingwithdoms]

I've always used udca.

[beeasy1689]

wow, thank you for this and the last post you wrote here. that is real key info that i might not have learned early enough. im still learning as i am new to this but that was pretty straight and to the point on some stuff i havnt found out yet

[Atomini]

Best natural remedy for liver health is eating an artichoke everyday.

I'm going to look into this!

[Flacco]

Thought I'd bump this for anyone who hasn't read it

[warmouth]

Thank for this thread! I am buying inbulk fromthesponsorand saw the UDCA last night. Icurrently take milk thistle anyways because of themeds I am on daily. And, since I will soon be trying out Var, I know the combination of it and the other stuff I HAVE to take could be rough. SO in your opinion, would the Var and the other daily meds I am on daily be pretty safe with taking the UDCA daily? Thanks again for the thread!

[Atomini]

Hi warmouth,

UDCA should help you with any liver stress placed on it from other meds, especially if you are using anavar or any oral AAS. UDCA/TUDCA has been shown to be very effective in maintaining proper healthy liver function in other liver disorders unrelated to stress from oral anabolics.

[slimshady01]

I just ordered 5 bottles of Aegis from Anteus Labs "spelling" got for decent deal compared to all other sites.

Here is my question, Im going to run a oral cycle of tbol and test in Oct then Var next spring. I will use 2 bottles each cycle which will be 500mg Tudca for 60 days each.

I have 1 extra bottle, can i start taking this stuff asap to clean out any damage done from previous? I was thinking of running just 250mg tudca for 2 months which puts me at the start of my cycle. Then i will crack open i new bottle and go to 500mg during.

I only ask because on the bottle it says take for a max of 8 weeks?

[Atomini]

I just ordered 5 bottles of Aegis from Anteus Labs "spelling" got for decent deal compared to all other sites.

Here is my question, Im going to run a oral cycle of tbol and test in Oct then Var next spring. I will use 2 bottles each cycle which will be 500mg Tudca for 60 days each.

I have 1 extra bottle, can i start taking this stuff asap to clean out any damage done from previous? I was thinking of running just 250mg tudca for 2 months which puts me at the start of my cycle. Then i will crack open i new bottle and go to 500mg during.

I only ask because on the bottle it says take for a max of 8 weeks?

Without a blood test to see what your liver enzymes are at, there is no way of knowing if you still have damage from previous cycles. The liver is a resillient organ and if you didn't go insane on the orals in previous cycles, and provided enough time has lapsed since your last cycle, your liver may have completely recovered by now. You may not require TUDCA at the moment. If you want to run it anyhow, there's no harm in doing so.

They are correct on the bottle, you don't want to be running TUDCA/UDCA for unnecessarily longer than you have to. It's not a horrible thing to do, but as i've mentioned previously, TUDCA/UDCA when used for too long or too high of a dose, will impact your blood lipid levels. It can cause a rise of LDL (bad cholesterol) ratio to HDL.

[slimshady01]

Thanks bro I'll probably just wait use with each cycle.

[Atomini]

Yeah, ideally you should use it whenever you cycle, and through PCT. During your time off, there is usually no reason to continuously use it UNLESS you have some major liver damage that you've caused, which needs repair. That's not the case for most people, however.

[Atomini]

Bump.

[Atomini]

Bump.

[slimshady01]

Just got my 5 bottled of aegis today. Will use in October with Tbol and test

[Atomini]

Good to hear! I'm glad to see the word is spreading about this compound, which is the proper liver protectant that should be used for those using oral AAS.

[Atomini]

Bump.

[Atomini]

Bump.

[Paul_Mc1989]

Great read thanks for bumping

[mockery]

Bump

[Jonnyg419]

Worth getting TUDCA for a four week DBol kickstart?

[t-dogg]

BUMP.


Good read. Makes me second guess my next cycle for leaning out again with anavar .

[Atomini]

Worth getting TUDCA for a four week DBol kickstart?

TUDCA is worth any cycle that contains any oral. Just that extra peace of mind that your liver is well nourished and protected from the dangers of hepatoxic oral AAS that you might be taking. I'd run TUDCA on even the most mild orals.