Atomini's all-you-need-to-know about TREN and how to use it effectively thread!

[jacobk91]

can you explain to me why i keep hearing tren puts a lot stress on the liver? (or if it even does) i keep hearing how hard it is on your liver from some people, and other people say it doesn't stress the liver any more than any other steroid . How can an injectable cause liver stress? also, is it any harder on the kidneys than other steroids ?

i plan on running tren a eventually at 250 mg a week. Do you think i should run liv52 (or other liver protection) while on tren? Also, can most kidney damage be prevented by drinking upwards of 2 gallons a day? Would it be a good or bad idea to use finasteride on tren to help prevent hairloss?

[slatts77]

do you still have to run hcg on a tren cycle?

[Atomini]

Running Tren for five years straight, I'd assume there are some no Tren periods in there. How long do you usually lay off the Tren? Do you jump off everything or do you cruise on your test? Have you ever considered some Trenbolone/Nandrolone rotation cycles? Meaning, starting with one, say Nandrolone for several week, introduce the Tren and run both for a few weeks and then finish out with just Tren the final weeks. Great way to pile on some size and then nail it home with a harder look and it seems to have a positive effect on the aftermath if you do come totally off.

I am serious when I say I have had zero no-tren periods! I love tren so much. The only no-tren period was actually recently where about 3 months ago I did a cycle of test prop and anadrol , which broke my 5-year mark of using test and tren consistently.

I made the decision 5 years ago that I would never ever use nandrolone , even the short-estered Nandrolone Phenylpropionate. The reason being that I feel the detection time is far too long, it just makes me very uncomfortable. A 14 month detection time? That means the metabolites are sticking around in your system for more than a year after your use. Not something I want. Its interesting because I was an inch away from using NPP before I made the decision to use tren insted. I am well aware that nandrolone is an excellent anabolic and I really wish I could use it, but I decided against it long ago and went with tren instead - never looked back since!

My cycles are usually no longer than 8 weeks, and I take 3-4 months of off-time between cycles (usually only 3 months). When I come off, I come off everything at once. I don't cruise.

[Atomini]

Understood. So I will go with the 300mg test and 400mg tren .

Also, what are your thoughts on running t3 and clen with tren. Clen being something used in inhalers and t3 because tren dowregulates it's production.

T3 and Clen are commonly thrown in with tren to increase the rate of fat loss. It is true that tren does have a suppressive effect on T3 production, but the data i've looked at suggests that it is minimal at lower dosages, and the effect is greater with higher doses. So, it is your decision to use T3 with tren. I have used tren with and without T3 and have done well on both accounts.

[lovbyts]

Do you think T3 is needed with a low doese Test E, Tren & Mast cycle?

[Atomini]

can you explain to me why i keep hearing tren puts a lot stress on the liver? (or if it even does) i keep hearing how hard it is on your liver from some people, and other people say it doesn't stress the liver any more than any other steroid . How can an injectable cause liver stress? also, is it any harder on the kidneys than other steroids ?

i plan on running tren a eventually at 250 mg a week. Do you think i should run liv52 (or other liver protection) while on tren? Also, can most kidney damage be prevented by drinking upwards of 2 gallons a day? Would it be a good or bad idea to use finasteride on tren to help prevent hairloss?

Tren doesn't put ahigh amount stress on the liver - it is not C17AA and as an injectable it avoids the first pass. However, it is known that tren is ever so slightly liver toxic due it its ability to resist hepatic breakdown greater than many other anabolic steroids. I have had my liver values checked with bloodwork many times after my tren cycles and have had ZERO problems. All of my enzyme levels were pefectly healthy, which would signify that likely the liver-stressing effect of tren is extremely minimal at best. For safety, one could run a good liver protectant such as Liv 52 or TUDCA/UDCA while on tren if one is extremely concerned.

Kidney damage has been a commonly touted effect of tren. I can say that tren is no harsher on the kidneys than most AAS. The origin of this rumor comes from the fact that often while on a tren cycle, you will find your urine becomes a very dark rusty color (this does certainly happen with me). It is not because your kidneys are being damaged. That dark rusty color are the metabolites of tren being excreted out of your body in your urine. Trenbolone seems to oxidize to a dark rust color very easily, even under refrigeration. The discolored urine tends to happen often, with no signs of renal toxicity. Also, trenbolone acetate is still widely used in animals for carcass weight increase. There seems to be no mention of kidney toxicity in animals, or with the few historical human trenbolone preparations. So basically, what some think is blood in the urine is actually just the metabolite of tren coloring the urine much darker.

Finasteride will not prevent hair loss from tren, due to the fact that tren is already highly androgenic and does not convert to DHT. Finasteride treatment would prove to be useless.

[Atomini]

do you still have to run hcg on a tren cycle?

Not unless you find your body is extremely sensitive to HPTA shutdown and you have a very difficult time restoring it during the post-cycle weeks. I have not found it necessary for myself. This is a personal preference among users.

[Atomini]

Do you think T3 is needed with a low doese Test E, Tren & Mast cycle?

Not likely. If the goal is fat loss, it might be a bonus. As I have mentioned, my cycles of tren without T3 were just fine. I didn't notice any diminished fat loss or metabolic issues. It would be interesting to see bloodwork while on a tren cycle and look at TSH and T3 levels, though... would give me a better idea. My bloodwork post-tren cycle has always shown normal healthy levels of TSH, though. SO, either the tren did not shut down thyroid output or my output bounced back to normal almost instantly after the cycle ended...

[lovbyts]

Not likely. If the goal is fat loss, it might be a bonus. As I have mentioned, my cycles of tren without T3 were just fine. I didn't notice any diminished fat loss or metabolic issues. It would be interesting to see bloodwork while on a tren cycle and look at TSH and T3 levels, though... would give me a better idea. My bloodwork post-tren cycle has always shown normal healthy levels of TSH, though. SO, either the tren did not shut down thyroid output or my output bounced back to normal almost instantly after the cycle ended...

I had my E2 levels checked on a Test 400mg and tren 400mg a week cycle about 6 weeks in. Wow, I guess I'm E2 sensitive. Test was a 736 and E2 was 295. I got some liquidstane right away.

[mockery]

Im not running tren right now , but ive recently come off cabergoline. i was on it for 6 months+ and well i cant say i ever felt anything on it at 1mg a week. i can say now that its been 2 months with out it... i dont feel the same. I just got a script from a dr. BUT wtf over seas i paid 75$ for a bottle and here in canada they wanna charge me 450.00 .... looks like ill just get the liquid from Ar-r !!

So basically just wanna say that aside from the anti prolactin, dosinex/caber is a pretty sweet drug and should be looked at more then a supplement to tren and deca

[jacobk91]

Tren doesn't put ahigh amount stress on the liver - it is not C17AA and as an injectable it avoids the first pass. However, it is known that tren is ever so slightly liver toxic due it its ability to resist hepatic breakdown greater than many other anabolic steroids . I have had my liver values checked with bloodwork many times after my tren cycles and have had ZERO problems. All of my enzyme levels were pefectly healthy, which would signify that likely the liver-stressing effect of tren is extremely minimal at best. For safety, one could run a good liver protectant such as Liv 52 or TUDCA/UDCA while on tren if one is extremely concerned.

Kidney damage has been a commonly touted effect of tren. I can say that tren is no harsher on the kidneys than most AAS. The origin of this rumor comes from the fact that often while on a tren cycle, you will find your urine becomes a very dark rusty color (this does certainly happen with me). It is not because your kidneys are being damaged. That dark rusty color are the metabolites of tren being excreted out of your body in your urine. Trenbolone seems to oxidize to a dark rust color very easily, even under refrigeration. The discolored urine tends to happen often, with no signs of renal toxicity. Also, trenbolone acetate is still widely used in animals for carcass weight increase. There seems to be no mention of kidney toxicity in animals, or with the few historical human trenbolone preparations. So basically, what some think is blood in the urine is actually just the metabolite of tren coloring the urine much darker.

Finasteride will not prevent hair loss from tren, due to the fact that tren is already highly androgenic and does not convert to DHT. Finasteride treatment would prove to be useless.

Wow thanks for the detailed reply! You have eased some of my concerns. very informative read.

[Atomini]

Im not running tren right now , but ive recently come off cabergoline. i was on it for 6 months+ and well i cant say i ever felt anything on it at 1mg a week. i can say now that its been 2 months with out it... i dont feel the same. I just got a script from a dr. BUT wtf over seas i paid 75$ for a bottle and here in canada they wanna charge me 450.00 .... looks like ill just get the liquid from Ar-r !!

So basically just wanna say that aside from the anti prolactin, dosinex/caber is a pretty sweet drug and should be looked at more then a supplement to tren and deca

Oh definitely! I've used it for the sexual performance effects alone. Many porn actors use it for this purpose.

And as for your price comment, I had NO IDEA it was so damn expensive over here! I get my Caber from my source, who gets it from Europe. Dostinex by Upjohn, and I get it for about 100 bucks.

[Atomini]

UPDATE: Added more to the FAQ. Added answers to how to use Prami and Caber, answered common liver/kidney questions, answered HCG question, added answers to T3 question.

[DeadlyD]

Caber is pretty much the only thing i'd take on cycle. I would still keep nolvadex on hand but not take it during the cycle unless absolutely needed though.

Define a 'typical pct'?

Nolva 40/40/20/20
Clomid 100/100/50/50

[mockery]

Oh definitely! I've used it for the sexual performance effects alone. Many porn actors use it for this purpose.

And as for your price comment, I had NO IDEA it was so damn expensive over here! I get my Caber from my source, who gets it from Europe. Dostinex by Upjohn, and I get it for about 100 bucks.

yeah that was at safeway, im gonna go to superstore or walmart and try there. I told the lady shes nuts. dosinex was almost 600 and the generic was 450... i was like seriously?

my dr said i should be taking 0.5 a day, i was like I DONT HAVE MS, it helps me sleep better, feel better, get hard ons faster after i blow and makes me smarter! he was like yeah but thats at 1mg a week try it 3.5 a week...

[Atomini]

Nolva 40/40/20/20
Clomid 100/100/50/50

All good except for the clomid. Please see my posts in this thread: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...prefer-for-pct and this thread: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...d-during-cycle to see my opinions on clomid.

[jacobk91]

If finasteride won't help hair, what about nizoral shampoo or topical spiro?

[MRgetitdone]

dude this is great info

[Metalject]

I am serious when I say I have had zero no-tren periods! I love tren so much. The only no-tren period was actually recently where about 3 months ago I did a cycle of test prop and anadrol , which broke my 5-year mark of using test and tren consistently.

I made the decision 5 years ago that I would never ever use nandrolone , even the short-estered Nandrolone Phenylpropionate. The reason being that I feel the detection time is far too long, it just makes me very uncomfortable. A 14 month detection time? That means the metabolites are sticking around in your system for more than a year after your use. Not something I want. Its interesting because I was an inch away from using NPP before I made the decision to use tren insted. I am well aware that nandrolone is an excellent anabolic and I really wish I could use it, but I decided against it long ago and went with tren instead - never looked back since!

My cycles are usually no longer than 8 weeks, and I take 3-4 months of off-time between cycles (usually only 3 months). When I come off, I come off everything at once. I don't cruise.

When you said five years straight with zero no-tern periods I thought you meant Tren every week of every month for 5yrs straight...that's why I questioned it.

Why are you worried about the detection time of Nandrolone? Are you tested?

[DeadlyD]

All good except for the clomid. Please see my posts in this thread: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...prefer-for-pct and this thread: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...d-during-cycle to see my opinions on clomid.

Thanks Atomini, also how would I dose the caber ?

[Atomini]

If finasteride won't help hair, what about nizoral shampoo or topical spiro?

Nizoral is an excellent addition if you want to keep yourself at bay from androgen related hair loss.

When you said five years straight with zero no-tern periods I thought you meant Tren every week of every month for 5yrs straight...that's why I questioned it.

Why are you worried about the detection time of Nandrolone? Are you tested?

No, i'm not tested but it just concernes me when the metabolite of a particular compound lingers around that long in your system. No other AAS comes anywhere close to 13 month detection times.

Thanks Atomini, also how would I dose the caber ?

See the FAQ. Caber should be dosed at 1mg per week while using tren or any 19-nor compound.

[Atomini]

UPDATE: Added answers to two new questions in the FAQ:

Q: If Tren is highly androgenic , does that mean hair loss will occur with it? What can I do about it?

and

Q: What kind of PCT do I need to run after coming off a tren cycle?

[slatts77]

do you still need to run HCG ?

[Atomini]

do you still need to run HCG?

Please see the FAQ, this is answered there.

[kelkel]

All good except for the clomid. Please see my posts in this thread: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...prefer-for-pct and this thread: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...d-during-cycle to see my opinions on clomid.

Atomini do you think this clomid link inserted into the sticky would help?

[Atomini]

Atomini do you think this clomid link inserted into the sticky would help?

You mean in the FAQ part under the PCT question?

[Atomini]

Guys, if you see people post new threads asking questions about tren , please direct them here. I am hoping that this thread will cut down on at least 95% of the daily tren questions here in the forum.

[thex95]

All good except for the clomid. Please see my posts in this thread: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...prefer-for-pct and this thread: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...d-during-cycle to see my opinions on clomid.

neither of these links work anymore, so do you suggest people use soley nolva for PCT without any clomid?

[Atomini]

neither of these links work anymore, so do you suggest people use soley nolva for PCT without any clomid?

Yes.

Here, I fixed the links. http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...prefer-for-pct and http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...d-during-cycle to see my opinions on clomid.

Damn forum keeps screwing with my links!

[thex95]

Yes.

Here, I fixed the links. http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...prefer-for-pct and http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...d-during-cycle to see my opinions on clomid.

Damn forum keeps screwing with my links!

haha awesome thanks man.

[thex95]

great threads just read them both. So would you say for a basic cycle of lets say prop @ 100 mg eod a pct consisting of - Nolva 40/20/20/20.?

This seems so foreign to me because all the research I have ever done always points to using the both together, so using just nolva is a complete game changer for me.

Also your the man bro

[Atomini]

great threads just read them both. So would you say for a basic cycle of lets say prop @ 100 mg eod a pct consisting of - Nolva 40/20/20/20.?

This seems so foreign to me because all the research I have ever done always points to using the both together, so using just nolva is a complete game changer for me.

Also your the man bro

Yes, I've been running nolva on its own for the majority of my PCT with a standard 40/40/20/20 protocol. There has been some evidence in some research to suggest that clomid has purpose in the very very early stages of PCT, but in my eyes it is not enough to justify its use (and then you have to get into the high dose of clomid you'd have to use to elicit that effect, the cost to benefit ratio, and risk the stupid sides it comes with). Most of the research you'll find points to using both because that's been passed down from generation to generation to generation without revision. It's an outdated practice with research showing that clomid's days of being a very important addition to PCT is effectively over.

[thex95]

Yes, I've been running nolva on its own for the majority of my PCT with a standard 40/40/20/20 protocol. There has been some evidence in some research to suggest that clomid has purpose in the very very early stages of PCT, but in my eyes it is not enough to justify its use (and then you have to get into the high dose of clomid you'd have to use to elicit that effect, the cost to benefit ratio, and risk the stupid sides it comes with). Most of the research you'll find points to using both because that's been passed down from generation to generation to generation without revision. It's an outdated practice with research showing that clomid's days of being a very important addition to PCT is effectively over.

Awesome dude, if I cycle again I'm going to give the just nolva a shot.

[t-dogg]

How about another question. What are the dectection times for all ester types of Tren ? In the steroid section before had all this information on all AAS, but since has been deleted.

[Atomini]

How about another question. What are the dectection times for all ester types of Tren? In the steroid section before had all this information on all AAS, but since has been deleted.

Good question. Simple answer is: 4-6 months. Everybody is different and some people may be 4, and others may be as long as 6 months The detection time is the same for all esters, and this is because when looking at detection times, it only involves the anabolic steroid itself. The ester has no effect on detection times, because it is the metabolite that lingers in your body that is what the tests look for. Case in point: Nandrolone Phenylpropionate's detection time is 13 or so months - this is the exact same detection time as Nandrolone Decanoate (deca ), yet we all know that NPP and deca have huge differences in their esters.

[NaturalJohnny]

If I'm going to be using tren e, when should I begin taking my daily 0.5mg of prami? Also, should I run an AI for the duration of the tren e?

[Atomini]

If I'm going to be using tren e, when should I begin taking my daily 0.5mg of prami?

As soon as possible. First day of your cycle.

[t-dogg]

So with that said, for all steroids the leaner you are the faster it should leave your body right?

[Atomini]

No. The only anabolic steroid this would apply to would be Nandrolone Decanoate. This is because the Decanoate ester is so long, it makes the molecule highly lipophilic (fat soluble). As a result, the compound can remain in your fat tissue for extended periods of time (far long even after you've finished your cycle). Many people have reported as long as YEARS later, getting sexual dysfunction issues (deca -dick, etc.) out of nowhere. This is because years later, there still existed Nandrolone Decanoate in the peron's adipose tissue and this was causing (from what I gather), prolactin release from the pituitary due to the person still having trace amounts of deca in their system. This is one of the reasons I will never use deca. I don't need deca still floating around in my system messing with my body functions years after i've finished my cycles that contained it.

As far as all other AAS, the detection time is always correlated with the metabolites, since it is the metabolites that they look for in the tests. Some metabolites clear your body fast, and others linger longer.

[t-dogg]

No. The only anabolic steroid this would apply to would be Nandrolone Decanoate. This is because the Decanoate ester is so long, it makes the molecule highly lipophilic (fat soluble). As a result, the compound can remain in your fat tissue for extended periods of time (far long even after you've finished your cycle). Many people have reported as long as YEARS later, getting sexual dysfunction issues (deca -dick, etc.) out of nowhere. This is because years later, there still existed Nandrolone Decanoate in the peron's adipose tissue and this was causing (from what I gather), prolactin release from the pituitary due to the person still having trace amounts of deca in their system. This is one of the reasons I will never use deca. I don't need deca still floating around in my system messing with my body functions years after i've finished my cycles that contained it.

As far as all other AAS, the detection time is always correlated with the metabolites, since it is the metabolites that they look for in the tests. Some metabolites clear your body fast, and others linger longer.

If the ester doesnt matter then, why does Test P leave your system in just a few weeks? Test S in 2weeks tops? Yet Test E stays in your system for up to 3months?

Thanks, didnt want to derail this stickie. Just curious now.