First cycle advice

[Razor]

According to a kid at my gym you have to train them everyday, so you're actually missing out!

Thats why they are not bigger....fml lol atomi you seen my legs, train more or less? My legs are the one part I like to brag about, they are big strong and hard as a rock. Even a hard leg day like hard hard 800lbs leg press with squats and more and the next day barely sore.

[Atomini]

Damn maybe i need to stop training my legs twice a week

Maybe you should. Has it ever occurred to you (and this is a question for EVERYONE here) that the larger and stronger you get, the MORE rest is required to properly recover and grow, not less? Some brand new bare beginners can get away with training muscle groups twice a week. But everyone always gets into the mistake of thinking that now that they are stronger and bigger, they can take MORE damage and be in the gym LONGER and do MORE SETS and train MORE FREQUENTLY!!!! BECAUSE THEY'RE SO FREAKING HUGE AND TOUGH!!!! RIGHT!?!?!?!?! Wrong. Let me lay it out for you...

Hypothetically, lets say you start to train a muscle and said muscle has 2 muscle fibers in it (I am well aware that we have billions of muscle fibers in any given muscle, duh, but for ease of explanation i'm using single-digit numbers). You hit the gym and you have now damaged 1 of these 2 muscle fibers, and have stimulated the growth mechanism within the body and this muscle itself. You then go home, eat, rest, and grow to facilitate the repair and growth process. You hit the gym 1 week later to train that same muscle. By this time, your muscle has now grown to have 6 muscle fibers instead of 2. You train, and you damage 4 of 6 of these muscle fibers. You then go home, eat, rest, etc. and repeat this process. You are now in the gym again a week later and you have grown 9 muscle fibers that you then train and damage 7 of these 9 fibers. Repeat the whole process once again, and you come back to the gym, now having grown 11 muscle fibers. Now, let me ask you the following questions:

What requires more energy and the use of the body's resources to operate? 2 muscle fibers, or 11?

What requires more TIME to fully heal and recover after your workout? 2 muscle fibers, or 11?

What will require more nutrients to repair itself? 2 muscle fibers, or 11?

I rest my case.

[Razor]

Maybe you should. Has it ever occurred to you (and this is a question for EVERYONE here) that the larger and stronger you get, the MORE rest is required to properly recover and grow, not less? Some brand new bare beginners can get away with training muscle groups twice a week. But everyone always gets into the mistake of thinking that now that they are stronger and bigger, they can take MORE damage and be in the gym LONGER and do MORE SETS and train MORE FREQUENTLY!!!! BECAUSE THEY'RE SO FREAKING HUGE AND TOUGH!!!! RIGHT!?!?!?!?! Wrong. Let me lay it out for you...

Hypothetically, lets say you start to train a muscle and said muscle has 2 muscle fibers in it (I am well aware that we have billions of muscle fibers in any given muscle, duh, but for ease of explanation i'm using single-digit numbers). You hit the gym and you have now damaged 1 of these 2 muscle fibers, and have stimulated the growth mechanism within the body and this muscle itself. You then go home, eat, rest, and grow to facilitate the repair and growth process. You hit the gym 1 week later to train that same muscle. By this time, your muscle has now grown to have 6 muscle fibers instead of 2. You train, and you damage 4 of 6 of these muscle fibers. You then go home, eat, rest, etc. and repeat this process. You are now in the gym again a week later and you have grown 9 muscle fibers that you then train and damage 7 of these 9 fibers. Repeat the whole process once again, and you come back to the gym, now having grown 11 muscle fibers. Now, let me ask you the following questions:

What requires more energy and the use of the body's resources to operate? 2 muscle fibers, or 11?

What requires more TIME to fully heal and recover after your workout? 2 muscle fibers, or 11?

What will require more nutrients to repair itself? 2 muscle fibers, or 11?

I rest my case.

Im sold! Thanks man!

[TobyS]

My friend, you don't need gear, you need to learn how to properly train! WHY are you training chest TWICE PER WEEK? No muscle should be trained twice per week, at all (ESPECIALLY with the rediculous amount of volume you're doing for it). This is one of the many reasons why we reccomend training naturally for as long as you possibly can before jumping on gear. A solid foundation of natural muscle prior to cycling means that you have the knowledge of nutrition and training, and that you know your body well enough that you can make solid gains that you will not lose after you come off of your cycles.

How would you like to train on gear, get your chest all developed up to the level you wish, and then end up losing it all after the cycle because you have a habit of grossly overtraining it? And then you realized you wasted your money on your cycle? And the time you spent on it? And then you realize that what you achieved from this cycle, you could have achieved naturally?

And I won't even get into the issues here of cycling young and the potential long term effects that come with it - you'll find plenty of that on the rest of the forum.

I'm on amino acids during my workout, protein shake 3 times a day, my diet is solid (not perfect) so im a bit confused as to how overworking my chest can cause me to lose gains? chest and legs are the only things i train twice a week and i understand there is time for recovery but I havent been sore from working chest for as long as i can remember. Maybe you could change your tone because I couldnt help but feel patronized, I'm 21 and ive been training for 2 years, dont treat me like i know nothing

[Atomini]

This one year, I didn't train biceps at all. That's right, I was just totally like "fvck this" and I stopped literally all direct biceps work (eliminated all curls, everything). I literally just let them get worked indirectly with my back workouts (underhand pulldowns, rows, etc.). I didn't lose any size off my arms, I didn't lose any strength either. I did this for about a year to a year and a half. I'm thinking of doing it again too.

Just think about the difference between someone like Ronnie Coleman and the average gym joe. Think about how much more immense power generation Coleman can generate from any given massive muscle, and think about on a molecular level how much energy and biochemical resources are required to fuel and sustain that kind of mass. A guy like Coleman has developed SMALL muscle groups, such as biceps for example, to the point where its not really a 'small' muscle group any more. That guy's bicep is the size of one of your pecs! And we consider the pectorals to be one of the larger muscles in the upper body! As you get bigger and bigger, you can't treat small muscles like small muscles any more. You must come to terms with the fact that you are now bigger, and stronger, yes... but you are now far more vulnerable to overtraining. This is why guys like Coleman literally need to be pumped full of hormones at extreme levels all the time.

Your muscles may increase in size and strength, but your body's rate of biosynthesis at the molecular level is more or less the same (and I haven't even yet included the factor of metabolic slowdown as you age)...

[Razor]

Lets shift gears as well and talk about how we are going to get you off this cycle..first are you willing to stop?

[Atomini]

I'm on amino acids during my workout, protein shake 3 times a day, my diet is solid (not perfect) so im a bit confused as to how overworking my chest can cause me to lose gains? chest and legs are the only things i train twice a week and i understand there is time for recovery but I havent been sore from working chest for as long as i can remember. Maybe you could change your tone because I couldnt help but feel patronized, I'm 21 and ive been training for 2 years, dont treat me like i know nothing

Okay, but this doesn't change the fact that at the molecular level, your body's rate of biosynthesis does not change just because you start dumping more food and amino acids into it. Any extra nutrients that your body can't use will simply be excreted and/or stored as fat.

My apologies for my tone earlier, but you should look into the issue of overtraining. I don't have the time to explain it all right now, but in a nutshell, training a given muscle twice per week or more is basically causing you to destroy your muscle before it has a chance to fully recover.

Remember, your muscles need to first repair the damage you've done to it in the gym. After that is fully complete, your body then needs to grow the new muscle on top of it (and this is what you WANT, right?). The more sets you do, the more microtears in muscle fibers you create that must be then repaired. The more frequently you train, the same thing happens. If you keep smashing your muscles to bits before they have had a chance to repair the base amount of fibers that are damaged from just what you've done in the gym, how do you expect to ever grow any new muscle on top of that?

Stimulate, don't annihilate.

[Razor]

Atomi when you get a chance sounds like you should write up a article about overtraining too, i would love to read it.

[Atomini]

Oh, and I forgot to add that soreness after your workouts is not an indicator of anything, except inflammation in your muscles caused by prostaglandins. It is not an indicator of whether or not you got a good workout, or whether or not you have stimulated growth.

A good indicator of whether or not you're making proper progress is strength gains in the gym.

[BlueWaffle21]

Thats why they are not bigger....fml lol atomi you seen my legs, train more or less? My legs are the one part I like to brag about, they are big strong and hard as a rock. Even a hard leg day like hard hard 800lbs leg press with squats and more and the next day barely sore.

I'm not serious man I laughed the kid off! I grew up always training legs once a week and I've never heard otherwise. Works for me, give it a try and see what happens. Leave it to Atomini to always be on point with the detailed information, great stuff!

[TobyS]

Okay, but this doesn't change the fact that at the molecular level, your body's rate of biosynthesis does not change just because you start dumping more food and amino acids into it. Any extra nutrients that your body can't use will simply be excreted and/or stored as fat.

My apologies for my tone earlier, but you should look into the issue of overtraining. I don't have the time to explain it all right now, but in a nutshell, training a given muscle twice per week or more is basically causing you to destroy your muscle before it has a chance to fully recover.

Remember, your muscles need to first repair the damage you've done to it in the gym. After that is fully complete, your body then needs to grow the new muscle on top of it (and this is what you WANT, right?). The more sets you do, the more microtears in muscle fibers you create that must be then repaired. The more frequently you train, the same thing happens. If you keep smashing your muscles to bits before they have had a chance to repair the base amount of fibers that are damaged from just what you've done in the gym, how do you expect to ever grow any new muscle on top of that?

Stimulate, don't annihilate.

fair enough, perhaps instead of doing 2 similar workouts i could split it into 2 seperate days to allow for quicker recovery. Thank you for your help

razor as i mentioned above i havent started anything yet, been staring at the vials for a week now changing my mind every 2 hours, pretty sure i've read everything i need to now and ill just continue to go natural

[gonzo6183]

Not sure why guys are having a go at this kid, he is in much better shape than 90% of people you see on here and he has also dont the right thing by coming and asking for advice BEFORE starting cycle and he seems VERY willing to listen to peoples suggestions.

My suggestions would be:

1. Obviously do not start cycling yet, wait a few years.
2. Spend a whole lot of time in the diet seciton, this is the best way to grow. Clearly you eat well but maybe you need to eat more but those guys will help.
3. Start researching different training methids, there is a section here where you can get help with that.
4. Maybe consider seeing and endochronologist to see if anything can be done to help you grow, you are still young and may benifit from HGH therapy in regards to height, I dont know im not a doc but I eould look into it.
5. Keep training and learning, with a good attitude guys here will give you all the good advice you could ever need

Gonzo

[Twin]

My friend, you don't need gear, you need to learn how to properly train! WHY are you training chest TWICE PER WEEK? No muscle should be trained twice per week, at all (ESPECIALLY with the rediculous amount of volume you're doing for it). .

i disagree. i do every muscle 2x a week.

PHAT by layne norton. google it...

I hit 135lb dumbbell chest press on flat each hand for a set of 3 and then my buddy helped a little on the last 2 reps... . on monday. and on saturday (2 days before this) i tore my chest up.. high reps.. and it made no effect.. still strength increase. ur body doesnt need a whole week to repair. ur body adapts...

been increasing my weight by 5lbs every 3 weeks on my bulk.


OP: your diet or training routine is the problem. are you taking proper rests between sets?

I take 6-7 min rest between each set on my heavy days. in the gym for 1.5 hours- 2 hours. and the results come.

u get in what u put into it.


fix ur diet and training program. give phat program a try .

layne norton.

its my program. best program i ever ran..

let the haters hate. maybe ill make a video for the haters of me dumbbell chest pressing 135lbs when my haters cant even do it on the juice. and im all natural.


normal days are 1.5 hours long.

but my upper power day is 2 hours - 2.3 hours long im in the gym for. (longest day. but i make constant gains, so this proves that being in the gym for 45 min - hour myth is pure bullshit)

[TobyS]

Not sure why guys are having a go at this kid, he is in much better shape than 90% of people you see on here and he has also dont the right thing by coming and asking for advice BEFORE starting cycle and he seems VERY willing to listen to peoples suggestions.

My suggestions would be:

1. Obviously do not start cycling yet, wait a few years.
2. Spend a whole lot of time in the diet seciton, this is the best way to grow. Clearly you eat well but maybe you need to eat more but those guys will help.
3. Start researching different training methids, there is a section here where you can get help with that.
4. Maybe consider seeing and endochronologist to see if anything can be done to help you grow, you are still young and may benifit from HGH therapy in regards to height, I dont know im not a doc but I eould look into it.
5. Keep training and learning, with a good attitude guys here will give you all the good advice you could ever need

Gonzo

They weren't having a go I don't think, the impression I gave early on was one im sure they get alot with inexperienced bodybuilders treating roids as a cheat method without considering the consequences. I appreciate all the feedback and I realize I'm very early in my bodybuilding career, ive just gotta keep going at the rate I'm going and pride myself on the fact that I've done it all without the help of steroids .

[calstate23]

Attachment 125498Attachment 125499Attachment 125500

This guy smaller, but he has a great physique..Broad shoulders, nice traps and a tiny waist...This guy has potential no doubt....

[TobyS]

This guy smaller, but he has a great physique..Broad shoulders, nice traps and a tiny waist...This guy has potential no doubt....

Thankyou, I appreciate the compliment

[BlueWaffle21]

They weren't having a go I don't think, the impression I gave early on was one im sure they get alot with inexperienced bodybuilders treating roids as a cheat method without considering the consequences. I appreciate all the feedback and I realize I'm very early in my bodybuilding career, ive just gotta keep going at the rate I'm going and pride myself on the fact that I've done it all without the help of steroids.

Yeah man we aren't "having a go" at you at all! The guys on here just don't want to see young guys like yourself permanently shut down from steroid use to early. You don't want to be on TRT at 25 years old!

[gixxerboy1]

Lets shift gears as well and talk about how we are going to get you off this cycle..first are you willing to stop?

Razor you need to read more carefully. He is not on anything. He has said it multiple times

[Capebuffalo]

Razor you need to read more carefully. He is not on anything. He has said it multiple times

His mind is on his up coming competition. He's scared. Lol

[gixxerboy1]

His mind is on his up coming competition. He's scared. Lol

He should be, he cant keep shit straight giving advice. I'm sure he cant personally running stuff either.

[Capebuffalo]

He should be, he cant keep shit straight giving advice. I'm sure he cant personally running stuff either.

Priceless. Ha