Need help and advice please

**Matty Fisher** · 09-27-2012, 03:33 PM

Hi everyone, can anyone give me any advice on Dbol because in thinking about starting a course on it and I've never taken any form of steroid before, so was wondering what would be the best way to take it, and for how long, and what would be the best anti estrogen to take with it.

Thank you to all those who help out

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**Lunk1** · 09-27-2012, 03:36 PM

Welcome Matty..can you tell us your stats...

Age
Height
Weight
BF%
Lifting Experience

Also Dbol should NOT be run without test as a base as it will shut down your natty test production. Big NO NO

**stpete** · 09-27-2012, 03:39 PM

D-bol alone isn't good. Much better when used w/test. Don't waste your time, energy and liver on running it alone.

**Matty Fisher** · 09-27-2012, 03:49 PM

Age: 23
Height: 5ft 5"
Weight: 10stone
Body fat: 13%
Lifting experience: loads

I don't want to take it obits own, so can you tell me hat else would be good to take wit it please, I'm only drinking "gold standard 100% whey protein" at the moment

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**Lunk1** · 09-27-2012, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Matty Fisher

Age: 23
Height: 5ft 5"
Weight: 10stone
Body fat: 13%
Lifting experience: loads

I don't want to take it obits own, so can you tell me hat else would be good to take wit it please, I'm only drinking "gold standard 100% whey protein" at the moment

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All steroid compounds must have testosterone as a base.

**Matty Fisher** · 09-27-2012, 04:22 PM

So what would you suggest to take with it, I've been told to use Nolvadex , I that ok?

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**lestat85** · 09-27-2012, 04:26 PM

You need to run testosterone with it. Save the Nolva for pct and run it with Clomid. Use adex or stane for an AI. Also run HCG while on cycle.

**Matty Fisher** · 09-27-2012, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by lestat85

You need to run testosterone with it. Save the Nolva for pct and run it with Clomid. Use adex or stane for an AI. Also run HCG while on cycle.

Ok thanks for the advice, what is AI and HCG and clomid, sorry for all the questions just new to all this and wanna know as much as I can.

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**Lunk1** · 09-27-2012, 04:34 PM

Honestly Matty...and I;m notfalming you. You need to spend a few months here really learning the ins and out of these compounds. it's not like protein and fish oil. The can be dangerous if abused and not done corectly. For example the facct that you are 23 means that you are a little young yet to even consider this. There could be srious issues with your health down the road due to taking steroid before your endo system is fully developed

**gixxerboy1** · 09-27-2012, 04:41 PM

Matty take some time and read the educational threads up to. That way you get the basics down and you just dont take something because someone tells you to, you want to know what your doing and why your doing it. Like someone mentioned nolva. Well if your going to take it you want to know what it is and what it does.
Also by reading that you will be able to ask more detailed questions about what you are doing.

**Matty Fisher** · 09-27-2012, 04:42 PM

Lunk1.. That's understandable and I thank you for your honesty, coz yeah this is a big learning curve for me. The main reason I'm now considering this is because I train hard for 5 consecutive days a week and I've got to the point where being all natural isn't making me happy anymore, I want to be bigger, stronger etc. I've tied asking many people but they ain't sure so that's why I've joined this site.. Personally from you! What would you recommend me to take on a 1st course, to introduce my body to all this, obvious not a long course, just a short 1 to start me off. Thanks again for the info so far

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**Brick** · 09-27-2012, 04:49 PM

check out all the stickies! theres a good 30 hours+ of reading for people with no knowledge. Check those out and read read read!

**Matty Fisher** · 09-27-2012, 05:00 PM

Ok Bucka I'll definitely have a look into all the stickies.. Thanks mate

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**Lunk1** · 09-27-2012, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Matty Fisher

Lunk1.. That's understandable and I thank you for your honesty, coz yeah this is a big learning curve for me. The main reason I'm now considering this is because I train hard for 5 consecutive days a week and I've got to the point where being all natural isn't making me happy anymore, I want to be bigger, stronger etc. I've tied asking many people but they ain't sure so that's why I've joined this site.. Personally from you! What would you recommend me to take on a 1st course, to introduce my body to all this, obvious not a long course, just a short 1 to start me off. Thanks again for the info so far

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Peronally from me...I do want to help and will help but I can not feel good about myself if I give you any advise on steroids at your age. It would be like me telling someone who wants to shoot themselves hoe to pull the trigger.

I will however help you reach your goals natural and help you learn what you need to tweak to keep gaining without steroids, while you stick around and become more educated and let your body develop so that you are truely ready to make the best when the time comes,

I mean really...your youngman..whats the hurry? The last thing you want is to come back in here 6 months from know asking why you cant get an erection any longer (no joke)!

Your choice my friend...make the right decision and I will assist, make the wrong one and all I can do is wish you good luck and good health.

**lestat85** · 09-27-2012, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Matty Fisher

Ok thanks for the advice, what is AI and HCG and clomid, sorry for all the questions just new to all this and wanna know as much as I can.

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AI means aromatase inhibitor, also sometimes called anti-estrogen. It is to protect you from sides related to high estrogen.

HCG helps keep your testicles from completely shutting down when the steroids shut down your natural testosterone production. It will help make recovery easier on you.

Clomid is another compound, used in conjunction with Nolva for PCT (post cycle therapy ). PCT is used to help you recover and begin producing natural testosterone again.

First cycles are almost always recommended to be testosterone only. This way you can see how your body reacts to the testosterone and will know what is causing any sides that you have and how to best deal with them.

25 is the standard age recommended to wait until because your body may still be developing. Using steroids while too young can cause many serious side effects such as being on TRT (testosterone replacement therapy) for the rest of your life at a young age and ED. You may not even realize that there is any problem until a few years down the road.

These are very simplified answers and I highly recommend that you do some serious research on these before you even consider starting a cycle, especially the impact of using steroids at a young age. The more you understand what these do and are for, the better off you will be.

**Matty Fisher** · 09-27-2012, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

Peronally from me...I do want to help and will help but I can not feel good about myself if I give you any advise on steroids at your age. It would be like me telling someone who wants to shoot themselves hoe to pull the trigger.

I will however help you reach your goals natural and help you learn what you need to tweak to keep gaining without steroids, while you stick around and become more educated and let your body develop so that you are truely ready to make the best when the time comes,

I mean really...your youngman..whats the hurry? The last thing you want is to come back in here 6 months from know asking why you cant get an erection any longer (no joke)!

Your choice my friend...make the right decision and I will assist, make the wrong one and all I can do is wish you good luck and good health.

Thank you so much mate, I really do appreciate you taking the time to help me on this.
To be honest I don't want to take steroids full stop but for the past 7month I've been unhappy with myself for not progressing the way I want to naturally, so I've thought hard about this choice and I was considering to do "1" short term course on Dbol just to boost me forward a few steps and then work on what I gain naturally to maintain and keep the gains I get from it. And then after that not use them again because I don't want to be a bodybuilder or anything like that, so do you think if I did "1" short term course an then maintain it naturally again it will be ok? And as for erectile problems I've looked into that and that's why I don't want to abuse steroids or use them long term.

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**gixxerboy1** · 09-27-2012, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Matty Fisher

Thank you so much mate, I really do appreciate you taking the time to help me on this.
To be honest I don't want to take steroids full stop but for the past 7month I've been unhappy with myself for not progressing the way I want to naturally, so I've thought hard about this choice and I was considering to do "1" short term course on Dbol just to boost me forward a few steps and then work on what I gain naturally to maintain and keep the gains I get from it. And then after that not use them again because I don't want to be a bodybuilder or anything like that, so do you think if I did "1" short term course an then maintain it naturally again it will be ok? And as for erectile problems I've looked into that and that's why I don't want to abuse steroids or use them long term.

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1 short course can cause you issues. Some may have no problems, but some do.
Also your diet dictates everything. It determines how much you way and if you keep gains after a cycle. What you eat is more important then what you inject or pills you take.
Whats your current diet look like? Also your diet has to keep evolving. Because as you ad weight you need more food. So the diet that got you results 6 months ago will not keep giving you results now

**lestat85** · 09-27-2012, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

Peronally from me...I do want to help and will help but I can not feel good about myself if I give you any advise on steroids at your age. It would be like me telling someone who wants to shoot themselves hoe to pull the trigger.

I will however help you reach your goals natural and help you learn what you need to tweak to keep gaining without steroids, while you stick around and become more educated and let your body develop so that you are truely ready to make the best when the time comes,

I mean really...your youngman..whats the hurry? The last thing you want is to come back in here 6 months from know asking why you cant get an erection any longer (no joke)!

Your choice my friend...make the right decision and I will assist, make the wrong one and all I can do is wish you good luck and good health.

This is a great offer and you'd do we'll to take him up on it. One on one help like this is very rare to find without paying a lot of money.

**Matty Fisher** · 09-27-2012, 05:22 PM

Lestat85: thanks for going into that much detail for me, I am taking note of what you've put and will consider some serious thought into this.

gixxerboy1: thanks for your info as well, and right now my diet is spot on, it has to be due to my training and the training team I have of my own. So that would be ok I think

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**Lunk1** · 09-27-2012, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Matty Fisher

Thank you so much mate, I really do appreciate you taking the time to help me on this.
To be honest I don't want to take steroids full stop but for the past 7month I've been unhappy with myself for not progressing the way I want to naturally, so I've thought hard about this choice and I was considering to do "1" short term course on Dbol just to boost me forward a few steps and then work on what I gain naturally to maintain and keep the gains I get from it. And then after that not use them again because I don't want to be a bodybuilder or anything like that, so do you think if I did "1" short term course an then maintain it naturally again it will be ok? And as for erectile problems I've looked into that and that's why I don't want to abuse steroids or use them long term.

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Matty...you are looking for me to tell you want you want to hear but I can't because those are not truths. First of all Dbol is a kickstart type of compound that cuases lots of wwate weight gain. You will mkost likely lose everything you gain on dbol as quickly as you gained it. Secondly, yes, even 1 "short" cycle can end up damaging your endo system and can result in a number of health issues that you may see right away or you may see down the road into your 30's when you want to have kids. I am not trying to keep you away from steroids. I am trying to say that it's important to be samrt about it.

I promise we can adjust what you are doing and given a little time and max effort by you, you will see the progress you are looking for. Hell I didnt touch the stuff till I was 35.

**gixxerboy1** · 09-27-2012, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Matty Fisher

Lestat85: thanks for going into that much detail for me, I am taking note of what you've put and will consider some serious thought into this.

gixxerboy1: thanks for your info as well, and right now my diet is spot on, it has to be due to my training and the training team I have of my own. So that would be ok I think

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why dont you post it and let us take a look.

**lestat85** · 09-27-2012, 05:30 PM

Gains naturally slow down as you train for longer. It's just the way it is.

As gixxerboy1 said, your diet really dictates everything and you may simply need to up your calories. Figure out your TDEE (total daily energy expenditure) and spend a few days recording everything you eat. If you're not eating a surplus of calories, you cannot gain weight. Look up the how to bulk thread in the diet section. It will probably help you a lot.

As far as the steroids go, all it takes is one cycle to cause damage. Even if you are old enough and do everything perfect, there is still a chance that you may not recover and may face serious side effects.

**Lunk1** · 09-27-2012, 05:34 PM

Can I get an Amen^^^^^^These guys know it Matty, and so do you!

**lestat85** · 09-27-2012, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Matty Fisher

Lestat85: thanks for going into that much detail for me, I am taking note of what you've put and will consider some serious thought into this.

gixxerboy1: thanks for your info as well, and right now my diet is spot on, it has to be due to my training and the training team I have of my own. So that would be ok I think

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My answers were not detailed at all, but rather very simplified. I really suggest that you look up all the points I mentioned for yourself so you can get a complete understanding for yourself.

No offence, but we see guys claim to have perfect diets all the time. It never hurts to post and get more feedback from experienced guys. It may be great, it may not. Won't hurt to post it and post your training as well. That way we can see the whole picture and give the best advice.

**Matty Fisher** · 09-27-2012, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

Matty...you are looking for me to tell you want you want to hear but I can't because those are not truths. First of all Dbol is a kickstart type of compound that cuases lots of wwate weight gain. You will mkost likely lose everything you gain on dbol as quickly as you gained it. Secondly, yes, even 1 "short" cycle can end up damaging your endo system and can result in a number of health issues that you may see right away or you may see down the road into your 30's when you want to have kids. I am not trying to keep you away from steroids . I am trying to say that it's important to be samrt about it.

I promise we can adjust what you are doing and given a little time and max effort by you, you will see the progress you are looking for. Hell I didnt touch the stuff till I was 35.

I'm sorry mate, yeah I'm coming across a bit strong "wanting" answers, I don't mean to, in just trying to get answers from all sides of this if you k ow what I mean, and I do understand the health risks I'm taking in even thinking about steroid use in any way and personally I'm not 100% on the subject but I don't know how to explain this, I just "want" to try this I guess. But I am listening to you and I won't even touch the stuff till I have all my questions answered. And I do want to adjust with you on this I really do, all your help means a lot and I thank you for it, it's just that I seem to of hit a wall in my training now, ever since I left the army I'm stuck to training and made it more harder and challenging for myself, I've gained a lot in the time of doing all this but like I say for the last 7months no improvement have come to me and no matter how hard I push myself I'm not moving forward n it's making me depressed in some sort of way. Self doubt maybe, I'm not sure.

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**lestat85** · 09-27-2012, 05:40 PM

We all hit plateaus from time to time. The key is not get too down on yourself.

Once we can see your diet and training, we can have a better picture of what is going on and give you better advice.

**Brick** · 09-27-2012, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

Peronally from me...I do want to help and will help but I can not feel good about myself if I give you any advise on steroids at your age. It would be like me telling someone who wants to shoot themselves hoe to pull the trigger.

I will however help you reach your goals natural and help you learn what you need to tweak to keep gaining without steroids, while you stick around and become more educated and let your body develop so that you are truely ready to make the best when the time comes,

I mean really...your youngman..whats the hurry? The last thing you want is to come back in here 6 months from know asking why you cant get an erection any longer (no joke)!

Your choice my friend...make the right decision and I will assist, make the wrong one and all I can do is wish you good luck and good health.

I agree with Lunk, don't rush yourself. I started reading about gear when I was 18 and didn't even consider (after reading lots) until I was 25, and then held off until I was 26, and I openly admit that I could have waited longer!

**Lunk1** · 09-27-2012, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Matty Fisher

I'm sorry mate, yeah I'm coming across a bit strong "wanting" answers, I don't mean to, in just trying to get answers from all sides of this if you k ow what I mean, and I do understand the health risks I'm taking in even thinking about steroid use in any way and personally I'm not 100% on the subject but I don't know how to explain this, I just "want" to try this I guess. But I am listening to you and I won't even touch the stuff till I have all my questions answered. And I do want to adjust with you on this I really do, all your help means a lot and I thank you for it, it's just that I seem to of hit a wall in my training now, ever since I left the army I'm stuck to training and made it more harder and challenging for myself, I've gained a lot in the time of doing all this but like I say for the last 7months no improvement have come to me and no matter how hard I push myself I'm not moving forward n it's making me depressed in some sort of way. Self doubt maybe, I'm not sure.

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Well a good soldier should be able to use deductive reasoning...right? Whe I graduate High School I was 5'10 (maybe) 170# I stayed this size till I got out of the Marine Corps.
I am now 6' (maybe lol) 238-245.

I say try this. Lets take a little time to kick this around. Spend some time in here and let's check your diet and your workouts. If at the end of the day those things can't help you then I will not be the one to stand in your way. Deal???? I am not offering my services again.....your call

**Matty Fisher** · 09-27-2012, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by lestat85

My answers were not detailed at all, but rather very simplified. I really suggest that you look up all the points I mentioned for yourself so you can get a complete understanding for yourself.

No offence, but we see guys claim to have perfect diets all the time. It never hurts to post and get more feedback from experienced guys. It may be great, it may not. Won't hurt to post it and post your training as well. That way we can see the whole picture and give the best advice.

Ok guys you all clearly know what you are speaking about and everything you have all said as now got me questioning my own choices. I will defo look into all this more an spend a few hours reading more threads and so on.. Erm 1 thing though. After I've spent more time reading up on all my options how can I contact you guys again, coz I'm sure the chance of trying to find you all on here are slim -_-

Once again I'd like to each of you for takin the time to help me, not many would, and would actually push me to take the Dbol without me understanding everything you have put. So thanks for everything, it's very appreciated :-)

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**Matty Fisher** · 09-27-2012, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

Well a good soldier should be able to use deductive reasoning...right? Whe I graduate High School I was 5'10 (maybe) 170# I stayed this size till I got out of the Marine Corps.
I am now 6' (maybe lol) 238-245.

I say try this. Lets take a little time to kick this around. Spend some time in here and let's check your diet and your workouts. If at the end of the day those things can't help you then I will not be the one to stand in your way. Deal???? I am not offering my services again.....your call

Yes you're perfectly right in what you've said. I guess I'm jut putting myself down too much! But yes you got a DEAL. Thank you for this offer.

Do you have:
Facebook
Blackberry
iPhone

Anything like that where we can stay in touch on a better level instead of having to check this all the time. I think that way we could work better and be able to track what I do easier, but if not, on here is fine.

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**Lunk1** · 09-27-2012, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by Matty Fisher

Ok guys you all clearly know what you are speaking about and everything you have all said as now got me questioning my own choices. I will defo look into all this more an spend a few hours reading more threads and so on.. Erm 1 thing though. After I've spent more time reading up on all my options how can I contact you guys again, coz I'm sure the chance of trying to find you all on here are slim -_-

Once again I'd like to each of you for takin the time to help me, not many would, and would actually push me to take the Dbol without me understanding everything you have put. So thanks for everything, it's very appreciated :-)

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Matty just repost in this thread any questions you might have. I am going to try to find a thread to post the link to in here that has a member who'd story you need to hear.
I will look for it now! Stand by for a few minutes.

**gixxerboy1** · 09-27-2012, 05:52 PM

^^ most people arent going to post that info on the open board. And i suggest you dont either. After your here 30 days and have 50 post you can private message on here.
But remember what we are talking about is illegal. Most people want to stay unkown

**Lunk1** · 09-27-2012, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Matty Fisher

Yes you're perfectly right in what you've said. I guess I'm jut putting myself down too much! But yes you got a DEAL. Thank you for this offer.

Do you have:
Facebook
Blackberry
iPhone

Anything like that where we can stay in touch on a better level instead of having to check this all the time. I think that way we could work better and be able to track what I do easier, but if not, on here is fine.

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For obvious reasons I dont give out my personal info to members on here but as I said in the other thread you post to here and there is a good chance I will see it. There is also apm option when you hit 50 messages. While I am looking for that link I want you to grab a pen and paper and start writing down your entier food intake yesterday.

**Lunk1** · 09-27-2012, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

^^ most people arent going to post that info on the open board. And i suggest you dont either. After your here 30 days and have 50 post you can private message on here.
But remember what we are talking about is illegal. Most people want to stay unkown

I will however give you Gixxerboy's phone number and address. he prefers being called early in the morning or just stop by.

**Matty Fisher** · 09-27-2012, 05:55 PM

Ok I understand that about the details, kinda realised what I was asking after I hit the send button lol... But ok I'll start writing down what I had now... And is it 50 messages in total or 50threads :S

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**gixxerboy1** · 09-27-2012, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

I will however give you Gixxerboy's phone number and address. he prefers being called early in the morning or just stop by.

Stalker

Originally Posted by Matty Fisher

Ok I understand that about the details, kinda realised what I was asking after I hit the send button lol... But ok I'll start writing down what I had now... And is it 50 messages in total or 50threads :S

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50 in total. So you have 14 already. But you need both 30 days and 50 posts

**stpete** · 09-27-2012, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Bucka

check out all the stickies! theres a good 30 hours+ of reading for people with no knowledge. Check those out and read read read!

Yep, at least that much! I've been a member here for a few years and a lurker for some time before that and there's still some stuff here i haven't gotten to. And a lot of stuff i go back to from time to time as a refresher. Especially in the Workout Forum, lots of good stuff over there. Good routines in the Powerlifting Section as well.

**Lunk1** · 09-27-2012, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

Stalker

50 in total. So you have 14 already. But you need both 30 days and 50 posts

Maybe but it isn't you I'm stalking

Mke yourself usefull and help me find one of the links that has Austinites story in it...think it would be usefull here.

**Matty Fisher** · 09-27-2012, 06:02 PM

Hahaha.. Right I'm still writing down my meals I had, I didn't have 3set meals I had more so I after I mention "Breakfast" I can't really say another meal time, be right back with the details

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**lestat85** · 09-27-2012, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Matty Fisher

Hahaha.. Right I'm still writing down my meals I had, I didn't have 3set meals I had more so I after I mention "Breakfast" I can't really say another meal time, be right back with the details

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None of us do 3 traditional meals. We just have meal 1-6 or more lol. Don't worry about trying to make it fit into set meals lol.