6 weeks no problems... week seven, weird.

**Infidel101** · 10-06-2012, 10:33 AM

Like the title says, I've been running my first cycle for the last 6 weeks with no issues whatsoever (Test E only). Have been feeling good and having no side effects, finally starting to see some changes. This past week has been my seventh week and both my injections have had strange things happen. (Pinning E3D) Even with my HCG . I did not change my regimen in any way or my pin locations. This week was both quad injections.

On the first pin, I hit my right quad and had a weird intense pain. Never had it before. When I tried to aspirate , the plunger would not move... at ALL. I literally grasped the syringe with my whole hand and pulled. It freaked me out so, I pulled the needle out and a large amount of blood came with, enough to run down my leg and drip onto the floor. Figured I may have hit a vein but it did not explain why it would not aspirate. Changed needles, pinned my left quad and while inserting struck a nerve or something because my entire leg spasmed and the quad muscles locked up like a cramp for almost 10 seconds... intense pain. Just waited it out, leg relaxed and injected. Painful but, tolerable. No issues outside of that. PIP was normal (almost non existent) Any thoughts on what could have happened? Did I tag a vein at the first try or was the excessive blood probably just from wiggling the needle so much trying to get it to aspirate? Pinned my HCG and had intense pain/burning sensation... also new. Sucked it up and it went away in about 30 seconds.

3 Days later, time for next pin. Decide to go for right quad again. Pin and the same exact thing that happened to the left leg, happens to the right. Intense pain, muscle spasm, and stayed locked up for about 3 seconds. What are the chances? I've been pinning without issue for 6 weeks, I'm not apprehensive, have no issues with pinning. HCG went fine this time around, no issues.

Any suggestions on different spots to hit the quad to help avoid the spasms? I flex my quad and pin on the large protruded muscle on the upper/outer portion of the quad. (Hard to explain, it's where I was told to pin by a friend) Is it ok to pin in the top quad muscle? I rotate between quads and delts and usually have no issues. It's not going to stop me by any means, just kind of curious wtf happened. Anyone have any insight?

**MickeyKnox** · 10-06-2012, 11:07 AM

youre obviously hitting a vein and a nerve. why don't you leave the quads alone for awhile and pin glutes or chest or..?

**Times Roman** · 10-06-2012, 11:17 AM

I pretty much only pin glutes nowadays.

**Atomini** · 10-06-2012, 11:20 AM

I've never done quads. Never ever will.

**--->>405<<---** · 10-06-2012, 11:33 AM

have had the same thing happen dude. i shot myself in the quads (25g 5/8") exclusively twice per week for prob 4months with no probs. then all of a sudden it started happening and progressed to almost every time. it happened so much i came to expect it (and still do).

i gave the quads a break and just have had my wife shoot me in the delts with no probs. of course its a TRT dose. friday i decided to go back to my quad with a 1" 25g because im eventually gonna cycle and i am gonna have to be able to inject myself. managed with no prob.

i need to learn how to do my glute myself but i dont have the ability to reach a whole lot on the back side of my body LOL..

**binsser** · 10-06-2012, 11:52 AM

^^^^ dont go in so deep when your in the muscle your in the muscle bud could be your pushing in too much!!

**LT75** · 10-06-2012, 11:52 AM

I get that problem also when i aspirate . Why is it that sometimes you can pull back and other times you can't?

**--->>405<<---** · 10-06-2012, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by LT75

I get that problem also when i aspirate. Why is it that sometimes you can pull back and other times you can't?

yeh i dont know. its weird. im sure theres some explanation. i always just pull out and start over.

**Sworder** · 10-06-2012, 12:31 PM

Sounds like you are trying to aspirate in scar tissue. If the muscle tissue starts feeling hard or different when you are poking through it, maybe time to rotate injection sites.

**ironbeck** · 10-06-2012, 03:28 PM

You need to alternate sites your building up scar tissue andyour body is having a reaction to pinning the same spot...alternate.

**MuscleInk** · 10-06-2012, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Sworder

Sounds like you are trying to aspirate in scar tissue. If the muscle tissue starts feeling hard or different when you are poking through it, maybe time to rotate injection sites.

My thoughts exactly. If you were in a vein you should have aspirated blood unless the vaccum created when you tried to aspirate was collapsing the vein. The blood on withdrawal would support this but that also could be a vein you hit on the way through or out. What size bore and length of pin are you using?

I used to do quads weekly until I had a severe infection that took me almost 5 weeks to recover from with a lot of bed rest and antibiotics. Now I rotate between pecs, delts, and glutes.

**Devils Advocate** · 10-07-2012, 01:16 AM

If I were you I wouldn't be pullin' back on that plunger so hard. There's debate whether aspiration is even necessary as many sources such as the CDC even advise that aspiration is not necessary for IM injections. Regardless, I still do it. The point I was getting at is that if you're in a vein, the slightest pull (or not even) on the plunger will draw up blood which you'll notice right away. If it doesn't, then you're good to go. You can collapse veins if you pull to hard, or even if you withdraw the needle too quickly.

**Sworder** · 10-07-2012, 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by Devils Advocate

If I were you I wouldn't be pullin' back on that plunger so hard. There's debate whether aspiration is even necessary as many sources such as the CDC even advise that aspiration is not necessary for IM injections. Regardless, I still do it. The point I was getting at is that if you're in a vein, the slightest pull (or not even) on the plunger will draw up blood which you'll notice right away. If it doesn't, then you're good to go. You can collapse veins if you pull to hard, or even if you withdraw the needle too quickly.

Aspiration is uncommon in the medical practice yes, but we don't have any formal education whatsoever in anatomy or knowledge on where major blood vessels are. We stab and shoot, so make sure you aspirate

I don't know where you heard that you can collapse a vein from pulling to hard as any pressure would just suck in blood.

**Devils Advocate** · 10-07-2012, 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by Sworder

Aspiration is uncommon in the medical practice yes, but we don't have any formal education whatsoever in anatomy or knowledge on where major blood vessels are. We stab and shoot, so make sure you aspirate

I don't know where you heard that you can collapse a vein from pulling to hard as any pressure would just suck in blood.

Search it up and you shall find your answer. And as for MickeyKnox, you PIN glutes only. Well I remember reading a study displaying a chart on injection various injection spots and blood plasma concentration of testosterone . The results concluded that injecting into the glutes yielded the highest concentration

**Sworder** · 10-07-2012, 01:44 AM

"Search it up" aspirating 1-2ml of blood (considering you are using a 3ml syringe with 1-2ml gear in it) won't collapse your vein. I am gonna let common sense work its magic on this one rather than Google

Originally Posted by Devils Advocate

Search it up and you shall find your answer. And as for MickeyKnox, you PIN glutes only. Well I remember reading a study displaying a chart on injection various injection spots and blood plasma concentration of testosterone . The results concluded that injecting into the glutes yielded the highest concentration

Lol where are you getting all this from? Anything that is injected IM will be absorbed, sooner or later.

**Devils Advocate** · 10-07-2012, 01:49 AM

Originally Posted by Sworder

Lol where are you getting all this from? Anything that is injected IM will be absorbed, sooner or later.

It would definitely seem that way. But I'm just repeating a study I read a while back. I'll try to find it and post it but I'm goin' to bed now. Gettin' blurry eyed.

**Sworder** · 10-07-2012, 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by Devils Advocate

It would definitely seem that way. But I'm just repeating a study I read a while back. I'll try to find it and post it but I'm goin' to bed now. Gettin' blurry eyed.

Nighty nighty

**Infidel101** · 10-07-2012, 01:52 PM

Appreciate the info.

It's my first cycle, I alternate between quads and delts pinning E3D and this was only week 7 so, that would put this as the 4th pin for that location... ever. Will scar tissue build up that quickly? I'm using a 1 inch 25 gauge. Usually I only gently pull on the plunger and it gives ever so slightly and occasionally a little bubble will come up. If I don't get blood, I go ahead and inject. This was just the first time I've ever had it not move at all.

No issues with delts and it's awkward to try to hit my glutes, guess I could give it a shot. Are quads free game throughout the whole leg or is there a particular area to go for. I usually hit the outter top muscle that protrudes the most from my leg, not the top. Should I alternate areas in the quad?

Appreciate the help.

**Devils Advocate** · 10-07-2012, 06:40 PM

Here's a link for you to take a look at for injection spots. http://spotinjections.com/index3.htm And I agree, glutes are hard, at least hard to remain steady when you're doing it yourself. I've always used 22G to inject because the local pharm for some stupid reason only carries those for the most part. Goes in nice and easy though. So your 25G 4th PIN should definitely not have scarred up your tissue to the point you believe it to have.

**Sworder** · 10-07-2012, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by Devils Advocate

Here's a link for you to take a look at for injection spots. http://spotinjections.com/index3.htm And I agree, glutes are hard, at least hard to remain steady when you're doing it yourself. I've always used 22G to inject because the local pharm for some stupid reason only carries those for the most part. Goes in nice and easy though. So your 25G 4th PIN should definitely not have scarred up your tissue to the point you believe it to have.

Scar tissue does not come from the pin, it's the chemicals that cause it. If it were the pin you have a lot of scars on the skin of your injection sites

**Atomini** · 10-07-2012, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Sworder

Scar tissue does not come from the pin, it's the chemicals that cause it. If it were the pin you have a lot of scars on the skin of your injection sites

Yup, it's the BA, BB, solvents, oils, etc. that cause the scarring.

**Devils Advocate** · 10-07-2012, 06:57 PM

That's good info. Thanks for that. And Sworder here is the study I was speaking of. http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/281/1/93.full.pdf It's also good to take note that it concluded that higher concentration solutions also resulted in higher concentrations within the blood. IE: Taking 1ml of 400mg/ml of Test vs 2ml of 200mg/ml

**Sworder** · 10-07-2012, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by Devils Advocate

The results concluded that injecting into the glutes yielded the highest concentration

Did you link the right study? This one was on Nandrolone decanoate and NPP. The study was glute/deltoid comparison and it wasn't statistically significant..

**Wazz** · 10-07-2012, 07:44 PM

Good thread to read, I can imagine when you aspirate & draw that much blood in the quad you'd be nervous........ The advises given sounded good.. I'm off to read the links provided..

Good luck & IMO, just avoid your Quads

Wazz

**Devils Advocate** · 10-07-2012, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by Sworder

Did you link the right study? This one was on Nandrolone decanoate and NPP. The study was glute/deltoid comparison and it wasn't statistically significant..

They're different injection spots that yielded different results, the higher levels being in the glutes. What about the study did I not post properly? Many users use Nandrolone . You stated that it doesn't matter where the injection is because it will result the same in the end, I just stated to differ. Just sayin', if you're gonna' poke one spot only, might as well make it the glutes.

**Sworder** · 10-07-2012, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by Devils Advocate

They're different injection spots that yielded different results, the higher levels being in the glutes. What about the study did I not post properly? Many users use Nandrolone. You stated that it doesn't matter where the injection is because it will result the same in the end, I just stated to differ. Just sayin', if you're gonna' poke one spot only, might as well make it the glutes.

Mate, look at Table 4. Anything within the +- values are seen within science as RANDOM. Learning some basic terms which will help you interpret data, start with "statistical significance".