Shut down vs, HARD shutdown

[binsser]

Just out of curiosity how long we're they on gear?

??? Lol 2 years mate ???

[Bio-Active]

??? Lol 2 years mate ???

Umm..... Did they stay on for 2 years straight with no breaks or did they cycle on and off for 2 years?

[Granovich]

Just out of curiosity how long we're they on gear?

2 years straight on 19nor's

[binsser]

No good !! Imagine looking the bollocks with women all over you but you cant shag em properly mmmmm 19 nors can **** you good!

[Granovich]

No good !! Imagine looking the bollocks with women all over you but you cant shag em properly mmmmm 19 nors can **** you good!

I dont need to imagine
Happened to me for over a year
Stayed shutdown and lived on cialis lol
Was horrible
When i forget to take cialis and my girls wants it
I say im so tired and i didnt have enough sleep LOL
Thank god for HCG

[Lunk1]

No good !! Imagine looking the bollocks with women all over you but you cant shag em properly mmmmm 19 nors can **** you good!

Like a lot of your comments...this is pure BS! 19nors can fuk ya! Only if you are not responsable!

I am sick and tired of this 19nor compounds being the fkn devil! Ive run plenty of them...long runs and high doses! When done right I have no real issues. 19nors will be a staple of my AAS diet forever!

[marcus300]

Like a lot of your comments...this is pure BS! 19nors can fuk ya! Only if you are not responsable!

I am sick and tired of this 19nor compounds being the fkn devil! Ive run plenty of them...long runs and high doses! When done right I have no real issues. 19nors will be a staple of my AAS diet forever!

Maybe for you but its an individual thing and not everyone responds the same to them. There is a high % what have problems with recovery from a 19nor compounds and I also know a few guys who dont, so treating them with caution is the best way when advicing members imho.

[Lunk1]

Maybe for you but its an individual thing and not everyone responds the same to them. There is a high % what have problems with recovery from a 19nor compounds and I also know a few guys who dont, so treating them with caution is the best way when advicing members imho.

I whole heartedly agree marcus...I know guys who simply can't use Tren . They react very poorly to it! But is the problem the compound, or the lack of knowledge of the user on how to use them safetly?

[marcus300]

I whole heartedly agree marcus...I know guys who simply can't use Tren. They react very poorly to it! But is the problem the compound, or the lack of knowledge of the user on how to use them safetly?

Well I know plenty of very knowledgeable bodybuilders who really suffer with recovery from 19nors, so I wouldn't say everybody doesn't know how to run them properly or know how to use them safely but without doubt there are many guys who suffer with recovery using 19nors. You must be one of the lucky ones who don't

[Lunk1]

Well I know plenty of very knowledgeable bodybuilders who really suffer with recovery from 19nors, so I wouldn't say everybody doesn't know how to run them properly or know how to use them safely but without doubt there are many guys who suffer with recovery using 19nors. You must be one of the lucky ones who don't

I'll be happy that I have that luck then! I would hate to be someone who has bad reactions or a hard time recovering from great compounds.

A question though marcus if you will indulge me. These same guys you speak of that suffer from 19nors or are unable to recover or at least rcover easily. How do they do on other AAS? No issues...normal recovery???

[marcus300]

I'll be happy that I have that luck then! I would hate to be someone who has bad reactions or a hard time recovering from great compounds.

A question though marcus if you will indulge me. These same guys you speak of that suffer from 19nors or are unable to recover or at least rcover easily. How do they do on other AAS? No issues...normal recovery???

Yes plain old test they are fine, even high dose but I know plenty who suffer with 19 nors. I wouldnt say its stops them completely from using them but they do suffer complaints on cycle and in recovery, again they find it alot more harsh to recovery from. Hey if you have no issues carry on using them because they are great

[Lunk1]

Yes plain old test they are fine, even high dose but I know plenty who suffer with 19 nors. I wouldnt say its stops them completely from using them but they do suffer complaints on cycle and in recovery, again they find it alot more harsh to recovery from. Hey if you have no issues carry on using them because they are great

Sorry to be a pain with these questions but I finally feel like I'm getting somewhere! So when you say they suffer complaints ON CYLE, what complaints are your refering to?

I totally get that it may be more difficult to recover from than some other compounds...makes perfect sense!

[binsser]

I dont need to imagine
Happened to me for over a year
Stayed shutdown and lived on cialis lol
Was horrible
When i forget to take cialis and my girls wants it
I say im so tired and i didnt have enough sleep LOL
Thank god for HCG

Oucheee yeah i went and bought 100 viagra cause im a horney ****er and that day it came back so now ive got a shit load if viagra i dont need lolol glad your ok now bud ,but they do say for some people it can take upto a year to recover for some not good i dont get any side really except on 19 nors gutting really cause i f cking love tren lol

[marcus300]

Sorry to be a pain with these questions but I finally feel like I'm getting somewhere! So when you say they suffer complaints ON CYLE, what complaints are your refering to?

I totally get that it may be more difficult to recover from than some other compounds...makes perfect sense!

They vary but many complain about libido issues and the usually hormone imbalance, even though all the precautions are took many do find 19nors harsh. There was one member here who just ran 19nors only because he hated test and made him have many sides, just goes to show you that we should listen to our bodies when using aas.

[Lunk1]

They vary but many complain about libido issues and the usually hormone imbalance, even though all the precautions are took many do find 19nors harsh. There was one member here who just ran 19nors only because he hated test and made him have many sides, just goes to show you that we should listen to our bodies when using aas.

No way I can say this without coming off argumentative but....don't you believe the labido and other issues were more related to the homone imbalance like E2 being elevated vs the actual compound used?

Obviously I would never want to see someone run a 19nor with NO test...thats just asking for crappy sides. I know many guys did it and some still do but no way would I even think about NO test!

[songdog]

Your HPTA regulates the hormone balance in the body and its does this by 2 negative feedback loops estrogen and androgen, once it detects an increase in the body by one of these systems it will start to suppress and shutdown the HPTA. There are levels of suppression depending on dose and compounds used but the longer your suppressed shutdown will follow. Certain compounds will shutdown your system sooner than others and usually these compounds like deca and tren tend to be harsher to recover from, usually a more aggressive pct is needed or a longer one. In many cases its seems to take many weeks to fully recover full function of your HPTA when using these compounds and I think thats why some say it shuts you down harder, but that play on words isn't correct really because you cant shut it down any harder than when its shutdown, its recovery whats harder from these compounds.

Thank you Marcus now I believe these dill pickels know the difference LOL

[marcus300]

No way I can say this without coming off argumentative but....don't you believe the labido and other issues were more related to the homone imbalance like E2 being elevated vs the actual compound used?

Obviously I would never want to see someone run a 19nor with NO test...thats just asking for crappy sides. I know many guys did it and some still do but no way would I even think about NO test!

Many guys have problems with 19nors - its well documented around this forum and ive seen in with many of my bodybuilding friends. In some cases it will be because they dont know how to manage these compounds but there is also many who do and still have issues either in cycle or recovery. All because you don't doesnt mean everyone shouldnt and trust me your not going to solve their recovery/issues with 19nors its just the way some individuals respond to 19 nors. All they can do is use the right protection and also run the best possible pct for them to help with the recovery issues.

[Lunk1]

Many guys have problems with 19nors - its well documented around this forum and ive seen in with many of my bodybuilding friends. In some cases it will be because they dont know how to manage these compounds but there is also many who do and still have issues either in cycle or recovery. All because you don't doesnt mean everyone shouldnt and trust me your not going to solve their recovery/issues with 19nors its just the way some individuals respond to 19 nors. All they can do is use the right protection and also run the best possible pct for them to help with the recovery issues.

Thanks for thetime Marcus...believe me, I am in no way advocating the use of 19nors by everyone and would never give the impression that there are not inherant dangers and risks associated with their use.

[marcus300]

Thanks for thetime Marcus...believe me, I am in no way advocating the use of 19nors by everyone and would never give the impression that there are not inherant dangers and risks associated with their use.

They are part of the game we are in and they should be tried and tested, lets be honest they great at building size,strength and tissue so I think doing the best we can at practicing safe cycling and using all the precaution we can to help with recovery etc is the best way. But they are great at doing the job

[Lunk1]

They are part of the game we are in and they should be tried and tested, lets be honest they great at building size,strength and tissue so I think doing the best we can at practicing safe cycling and using all the precaution we can to help with recovery etc is the best way. But they are great at doing the job

Couldnt agree more! They will be a staple for me as long as my body says yes!

[Angel of death]

I've never used tren but I've run deca with minimal test for good while and recovered with no problem. But I do feel like some people make it seem like the libido enhancement testosterone brings means you aren't as "shut down" as someone with no libido on deca. In fact, that definitely goes on here to a degree, and its wrong.

[Bonaparte]

I never had any libido issues from Deca , but just 50mg of Tren EOD was giving me serious erection issues after 6 weeks (even stacked with 300mg of test).
It isn't just about the LH and FSH suppression, but the actual effect of the drug on penis function and libido.

[Lunk1]

I never had any libido issues from Deca , but just 50mg of Tren EOD was giving me serious erection issues after 6 weeks (even stacked with 300mg of test).
It isn't just about the LH and FSH suppression, but the actual effect of the drug on penis function and libido.

and you are with no doubt, posotive, it wasn't E2 related?

[Bonaparte]

and you are with no doubt, posotive, it wasn't E2 related?

I'm certain. It was the tren itself.

[Far from massive]

I really think a lot of this is internet doctors playing word games. Anyone who has done 300mg wk of test E for 12 wks and also done 1000 mg of Tren E a wk for 12 wks (with whatever dose of test) can tell you that the larger dose of Tren will be a lot harder to recover from and the problems seen during recovery will be more severe.

So replace "shutdown" with "bodychemistry fvcd up" and soft and hard with kinda and totally....you get the picture.

Until someone comes up with data showing all the collective changes ( since I assume its more than 1) that account for this difference and finds a term to describe them it makes it tough to give a good answer to the question.

The only reason I am saying all this is, many a time I see someone ask "Does Tren shuts you down harder than Test" and get told "No do your homework, shut down is shutdown" with no further explanation.

[Lunk1]

I really think a lot of this is internet doctors playing word games. Anyone who has done 300mg wk of test E for 12 wks and also done 1000 mg of Tren E a wk for 12 wks (with whatever dose of test) can tell you that the larger dose of Tren will be a lot harder to recover from and the problems seen during recovery will be more severe.
So replace "shutdown" with "bodychemistry fvcd up" and soft and hard with kinda and totally....you get the picture.

Until someone comes up with data showing all the collective changes ( since I assume its more than 1) that account for this difference and finds a term to describe them it makes it tough to give a good answer to the question.

The only reason I am saying all this is, many a time I see someone ask "Does Tren shuts you down harder than Test" and get told "No do your homework, shut down is shutdown" with no further explanation.

You speak mainly of recovery FFM...but what about effects ON cycle? Lets use an example: subject X uses 700mg EW test and uses bloodwork to assure everything else is in check. Same subject a year later does 500mg test/300mg deca , again he uses BW to assure all other hormone levels are kept in range! Is there a "harder" shutdown due to the addition of the 19nor?

I think Marcus made it clear that, like alot of other things AAS related. It is individualy based on a persons response and tolerance of certain compounds.

My beef is the carte blanche statement "Tren /deca shuts you down harder than another AAS" . This might in a sense be true for some individuals!

[Far from massive]

First let me say that my comment about internet doctors was uncalled for...grumpy old man syndrome.

As to the cycles laid out I don't think it would matter which you did first. I really do feel that Tren particularly will cause more changes to body chemistry than test. Of course in all fairness to Tren this may in large be due to the fact that mg for mg its a lot more potent than Test and is generally run at close to the same doses.

[Lunk1]

First let me say that my comment about internet doctors was uncalled for...grumpy old man syndrome.

As to the cycles laid out I don't think it would matter which you did first. I really do feel that Tren particularly will cause more changes to body chemistry than test. Of course in all fairness to Tren this may in large be due to the fact that mg for mg its a lot more potent than Test and is generally run at close to the same doses.

There was no offense taken, I found it comical and correct in many cases lol!

My believe is...that MANY cases (not all) that the "feeling" of being shutdown more comes from ones inability to properly regulate other influences (mainly estrogen). Granted...as Marcus made it clear. Some ppl no matter what precautions they take, have more isssues simply because of 19nors.

Appreciate your incite FFM!

[Far from massive]

Now that I got the apology part taken care of, I really do feel that until we can document and apply a name to the changes that do make recover take longer and the problems seen during recovery more severe, we are doing those asking the questions a disservice as many ask if Tren shuts you down harder than Test (naturally they are speaking of common doses) and are told no shutdown is shutdown and this really is not helping to answer their question.

As far as your specific example, While I agree with Marcus that its certainly varies person to person, look how many times people post that they have done a test cycle and are having long lasting problems compared to how many post the same in regard to 19nors and I think its clear that for the population as a whole 19nors do present more of a problem. Particularly in the area of sexual performance.

[Far from massive]

There was no offense taken, I found it comical and correct in many cases lol!

My believe is...that MANY cases (not all) that the "feeling" of being shutdown more comes from ones inability to properly regulate other influences (mainly estrogen). Granted...as Marcus made it clear. Some ppl no matter what precautions they take, have more isssues simply because of 19nors.

Appreciate your incite FFM!

Damnit Bro, You type to fast LOL

[songdog]

I really think wat guys are saying when they say shut down hard is guys having libdo and ed issues.This is why I use the term.you are not shut down harder but a lot of guys have more issues with 19Nors.Hence shut down hard! While it maybe the wrong term it works unless you want to pick it apart

[marcus300]

Couldnt agree more! They will be a staple for me as long as my body says yes!

How long have you been running 19nors for?
when did you start cycling?

If your body agree's with them and your still responding then carry on, like ive said they are great

[Lunk1]

How long have you been running 19nors for?
when did you start cycling?

If your body agree's with them and your still responding then carry on, like ive said they are great

Ive done 5 tren cycles in the last nearly 5 years! Mixed in a few misc cycles between!