Frequency of workouts while on a cycle?

[crazy mike]

This is not about me, it's about the science behind muscle growth. But if you're really interested this is my current routine.

Day1: Chest/ arms/ abs
Day2: Legs.
Day3: Back/ shoulders/ Cardio

Rest then repeat.

Yes, the science behind muscle growth is exactly what I have been saying. Now, you have a 3 on 1 off routine and that's common and what I did for almost all my career. You should be working so hard that your pain for the day one (1) chest will carry thru to the 3rd day 72 hrs which is the 4th day (rest day) and then hit it again. Figure it out in hrs. A good hard workout should be felt for 72 hrs. If not in my experience you (me) have not worked hard (intense) enough to promote enough trauma for enough repair and and growth. So with that routine it is 3 on 1 off and 3 on 1 off and on and on. No two (2) days off in a row or you will start atrophy. I didn't make this sh*t up. research about atrophy and time spans. This is bodybuilding 101 man....rest more and I'll see you on show day...crazy mike

[Sick_beard]

@ Mike: this routine has given me great gains training natty. I've been doing 8 sets more or less per muscle following this routine.

But now I'm into the 2nd week of a test only cycle. I'm keeping my routine and everything the same, but as the test builds up in my system I'm gonna increase my workouts volume and carbs intake. These 2 I will keep increasing as much as my body can handle. We'll see how it goes The science on optimizing training while "enhance" is very scarce, but I think this should give great results. It's my 1st cycle and I really wanna get the most out of it.

[crazy mike]

So we all are now stating in general what is good for one is not the same for all.....well now that's a great thought, kinda with everything. But the science behind the frequency and pain issue is the same. Unless you have a muscle within your own body genetics that is different than your other muscles in growth /time / soreness then it remains the same. A good hard a*s workout should be felt (pain if you will) for 72 hrs and that's my story and it worked for me in my past years and seem to be clicking now at age 61. I'm a bit OCD so I kick a*s with what I do and being retired I can do what I want...ha, stayin tight...crazy mike

[crazy mike]

@ Mike: this routine has given me great gains training natty. I've been doing 8 sets more or less per muscle following this routine.

But now I'm into the 2nd week of a test only cycle. I'm keeping my routine and everything the same, but as the test builds up in my system I'm gonna increase my workouts volume and carbs intake. These 2 I will keep increasing as much as my body can handle. We'll see how it goes The science on optimizing training while "enhance" is very scarce, but I think this should give great results. It's my 1st cycle and I really wanna get the most out of it.

I guess we are kicking a dead horse. But from what you just said about 8 sets, you are throwing me off. We would prob have to talk one on one to understand. When I train chest, my first exercise is incline bench and...
Set 1: nominal lbs stretch n warm 15/20 reps
Set 2 : low lbs warmup 15 reps
Set 3: moderate lbs 10 reps
Set 4: intermediate lbs 8-10
Set 5: heavy lbs 5- 6
on heavy day set 6: heavier 3 -4 reps
Set 7: drop to intermediate to lower lbs 15-25 reps depending on weight.
NOW I move on to another 3 -4 different exercises with the same type routine
When I don't feel enough sharp pain in my muscle group I do something to promote that feel

[Sick_beard]

I guess we are kicking a dead horse. But from what you just said about 8 sets, you are throwing me off. We would prob have to talk one on one to understand. When I train chest, my first exercise is incline bench and...
Set 1: nominal lbs stretch n warm 15/20 reps
Set 2 : low lbs warmup 15 reps
Set 3: moderate lbs 10 reps
Set 4: intermediate lbs 8-10
Set 5: heavy lbs 5- 6
on heavy day set 6: heavier 3 -4 reps
Set 7: drop to intermediate to lower lbs 15-25 reps depending on weight.
NOW I move on to another 3 -4 different exercises with the same type routine
When I don't feel enough sharp pain in my muscle group I do something to promote that feel

This really explain everything now. The reason you feel sore my friend is because you're over training. I'm 21, my diet is squeaky clean and I weigh everything I eat by the gram, I take every supplement that has any bit of credible research to back it up, I don't smoke, drink, etc. and I would never DREAM of doing more than 8 sets per muscle while training twice a week.

For e.g., if I'm working chest, I'd warm up my joints then warm up my muscles. After that it's 4 sets of a compound movement, then 4 sets of flies. THAT'S IT. Anything more than that is just eating into your recovery time imo. Hence the feeling of soreness after each workout.

[crazy mike]

So in conclusion to get the most out of you cycle you should...
Eat
train till your arms (etc..) fall off and you can hardly stand the pain for 72 hrs
eat
sleep
eat
train
and so on
........ha don't think so much science. Know what the body does, know that NO PAIN NO GAIN when you feel more than you though you were ready to handle.........push harder and the gear will take you through. All this paying attention to joints and ligaments and the attachments. Steroid will make you stronger quicker than you ligaments n tendons can handle if not careful. That pain is much different........gota go eat n train....crazy mike

[diabolicsoul]

Yes, the science behind muscle growth is exactly what I have been saying. Now, you have a 3 on 1 off routine and that's common and what I did for almost all my career. You should be working so hard that your pain for the day one (1) chest will carry thru to the 3rd day 72 hrs which is the 4th day (rest day) and then hit it again. Figure it out in hrs. A good hard workout should be felt for 72 hrs. If not in my experience you (me) have not worked hard (intense) enough to promote enough trauma for enough repair and and growth. So with that routine it is 3 on 1 off and 3 on 1 off and on and on. No two (2) days off in a row or you will start atrophy. I didn't make this sh*t up. research about atrophy and time spans. This is bodybuilding 101 man....rest more and I'll see you on show day...crazy mike

DOMS or delayed onset muscle soreness does not play a role in muscle growth. Having DOMS doesn't mean you had a good hard workout.

The only time I get DOMS is if i change my exercises/routine around aside from that, I never get DOMS and I am growing just fine.

If I remember correctly, they use to think DOMS was caused by muscle fiber tearing, and lactic acid build up, but now it seems that's not the case, and they're not entirely sure what causes DOMS.

[crazy mike]

I may have over stated the pain point , rereading my text, but the science is simple and the same. I have had good success in the past with this theory and workout regimen. The pic of me was in my 4th yr of training and that did me ok i guess and I was about 32 years old. I trained another 6 yrs with that thinking and routine. No pics from those years (personal probs) lost everything so nothing to show. Who cares ya know , but I've been around (training in gym) Frank Zane and Lee Haney back in the 80's and followed suite. Just saying I watched ,took notes and asked Quest.
I can only share my experience, strength and hope...I reiterate the science of pain remains he same....crazy me

[crazy mike]

In all my experience I have never seen a person promote good quality strength and mass growth with only 8 sets per muscle. I wold like to hear from the BIG GUYS with big strength and size tell me what their experience has shown them in regard to only 8 sets total. ...crazy mike ya think

[The Bear 79]

I personally have experienced first hand that soreness is not a sign of growth nor is soreness a necessary acknowledgment of of a workout deemed successful. I work my muscles to absolute failure every time I work them, but the soreness that follows is hardly noticeable if at all,& for the longest time I was under the impression that I wasnt doing enough because I was lacking the soreness, but when I noticed I was still making gains, & large gains at that, I realized that my body had just acclimated to its new environment (for lack of better term). Before I learned to push my body beyond its threshold, I would be really sore after every workout. I still have mild soreness after my workouts but nothing like I used to get.

So, in short, lack of soreness is not a sign of insufficient training..............BUT.............you must be positive you're maximizing your efforts at the gym no matter what.

[Sick_beard]

In all my experience I have never seen a person promote good quality strength and mass growth with only 8 sets per muscle. I wold like to hear from the BIG GUYS with big strength and size tell me what their experience has shown them in regard to only 8 sets total. ...crazy mike ya think

Keep in mind I'm still talking about training natty here. As mentioned, I'm sure I'll be able to increase volume on cycle.

[crazy mike]

Well I stand to be corrected if I have overstated the soreness issue. For me I can monitor my work in the gym by how sore I get. My recovery time (pain) does vary off the 72hr time I mentioned of course but JUST FOR ME that's my guide. I don't clock it ya know. But it is my guide and for me it works, or in the past. Ya know I've just started back. But I'm doin great. It's a fine line for the beginner as to not feeling sore and too sore, so that 3rd day I find is a good marker for the beginners that I trained years back in my Gym in So Fl. ".BUT.............you must be positive you're maximizing your efforts at the gym no matter what Statemenet by "Bear" . I find that this statement of yours is the tell tale and my pain issue is my tell tale sign for me....still crazy mike

[The Bear 79]

Chest = 15 sets.

Biceps = 12 - 16 sets.

Triceps = 12 sets.

Lats = 16 sets

Lumbar = 6 - 8 sets.

Shoulders = 20 sets (combined front, cap & rear)

Forearms = 12 sets.

Traps = 12 sets

Quads = 10 sets.

Hams = 8 sets.

Calves = 10 sets.

[cjay]

In all my experience I have never seen a person promote good quality strength and mass growth with only 8 sets per muscle. I wold like to hear from the BIG GUYS with big strength and size tell me what their experience has shown them in regard to only 8 sets total. ...crazy mike ya think

I avg 9 sets per muscle and have for years. I don't if I consider myself big, I'm 6'1 230, and I'd say I have a fair amount of strength. I rep 315lbs on bench 8-10, squat 405 8-10 for just a sample. You can easily gain tons of strength with 8 sets per body part. It's more about how you push through those sets than the numbers anyways. Mind muscle link is a huge factor along with form and pushing through thresholds.

[crazy mike]

Thanks "Bear" for the schedule. That's what I mean about more than 8 sets. Now I do just a few more than you "Bear" but that's the idea and the standard I've always know...Gone to the gym...mike

[crazy mike]

Great thread,. Maybe I'll back off a few sets...not so crazy mike
Thanks guys
Not many

[mbreti]

There isn't an a clear answer to this debate, but its a good discussion.

I went through a phase of deadlifting every session... so about 6/5 times a week (natty).

Logic being, to promote the release of anabolic hormones by doing big compounds such as deads, that bicep curls can't really achieve on the same scale. Anyway, body quickly adapted, regular soreness subsided, and strength gains came along very quickly with regards to deads, while nothing else suffered... can't really say if the everyday deadlifts helped my biceps grow, but they certainly didn't hinder it.
I only saw positives from it.

Just my experience with training frequencies, squatting 3 times a week I would say is superior than 2 or once a week. The body will adapt to the extra training and grow.

[Papiriqui]

I just recently changed my routine to hitting a muscle group once a week but before this i was working out 6x a week 2 muscle groups a day.
Mon - Chest & Triceps
Tues - Back & Biceps
Wed - Quads, Hams, Delts & Traps
Thurs - Same as Monday, difference is chest goes to dumbells rather than barbell and triceps goes from cables to free weights
Fri - same as Tuesday but i kind of change the type of weights i use like dumbells and stuff
Sat - same as Wed with calfs...

This routine works wonders for me all natty so far, and ive done a lot of different types of routines and stuff and this seems to work best for me as well.

By the way when i started doing legs about a yr ago, i began by doing legs 3x a week including including squats.... Just did it for a few months to get them strong and bring them up to par with the rest of the body since i hadnt done legs in years and not even properly. So yes it can be done and yes you are dead after but you do what you have to do to achieve a certain goal.

[canesfan804]

Thanks "Bear" for the schedule. That's what I mean about more than 8 sets. Now I do just a few more than you "Bear" but that's the idea and the standard I've always know...Gone to the gym...mike

I think Sick Beard was saying he does 8 set per session. 2xs a week so he does 16 sets per week. Bear do you do each group 2xs a week or 1? Also are you doing 15 sets total per week or 15 each session. Sorry if youalready stated this. Slow learner.

[Bio-Active]

I like to hit 15 sets per muscle group and 2 groups ED. I usually super set to get it done quicker. Working 2 groups at the same time

[anahny]

I think i have the weirdest routine out of everyone. I workout 7 days a week. Rotating muscle groups every 4 days giving them enough time to recover. Abs everyday. I found this to be best for me. I don't set specific says of the week to do a certain muscle group. I just keep rotating every 4 days. This also keeps me from plateau. Here's an example

Week 1

Monday - chest, abs, calves
Tuesday - biceps, triceps, abs
Wednesday - quads, hamstrings, abs
Thursday - back, shoulders, abs
Friday - chest, abs, calves
Saturday - biceps, triceps, abs
Sunday- quads, hamstrings, abs

Week 2

Monday - back, shoulders, abs
Tuesday - chest, abs, calves
Wednesday,- biceps, triceps, abs

Repeat throughout the month.

Hope that makes since

Also do 20 mins cardio 3 times a week,

[cjay]

I think i have the weirdest routine out of everyone. I workout 7 days a week. Rotating muscle groups every 4 days giving them enough time to recover. Abs everyday. I found this to be best for me. I don't set specific says of the week to do a certain muscle group. I just keep rotating every 4 days. This also keeps me from plateau. Here's an example

Week 1

Monday - chest, abs, calves
Tuesday - biceps, triceps, abs
Wednesday - quads, hamstrings, abs
Thursday - back, shoulders, abs
Friday - chest, abs, calves
Saturday - biceps, triceps, abs
Sunday- quads, hamstrings, abs

Week 2

Monday - back, shoulders, abs
Tuesday - chest, abs, calves
Wednesday,- biceps, triceps, abs

Repeat throughout the month.

Hope that makes since

Also do 20 mins cardio 3 times a week,

When do you rest for growth? Is this natural training?

[anahny]

When do you rest for growth? Is this natural training?

Each muscle group has 4 days to rest. According to the national bodybuilding association, it takes approximately 48-72 hours for muscles to recover. I give them plenty of rest. Working out everyday helps keep my body fat low as well and keep my abs rock solid. I'm currently at. 207lbs, 6.0', 10% bodyfat.

[cjay]

It's not only your muscles that need rest, it's also your nervous system. you also don't get complete rest without rest days with zero training. Don't you worry about over training? I know my body would over train within a month of two of working out like that. The key to growth is rest. Honestly many of the muscles you use for each lift are getting hit of successive days, so they aren't really getting 4 days. If you do chest Monday and Tris tues day you're basically training tris twice in a row

[anahny]

It's not only your muscles that need rest, it's also your nervous system. you also don't get complete rest without rest days with zero training. Don't you worry about over training? I know my body would over train within a month of two of working out like that. The key to growth is rest. Honestly many of the muscles you use for each lift are getting hit of successive days, so they aren't really getting 4 days. If you do chest Monday and Tris tues day you're basically training tris twice in a row

I understand what you are saying. I take maybe one day off every two weeks. I know it sounds crazy but believe it or not my body responds well to this routine. And I have not yet over trained. I've been training like this for 2 years now and watched my body mass go from 180lbs to 207lbs with amazing strength gains. Everyone is different so if you done this routine you might over train. And when I workout my chest, I never feel it in my triceps anymore. It is a secondary muscle worked out in most chest exercises, but my triceps gotten too strong it doesn't work out much of it during chest. But that's also why I workout my chest first then arms the next day.

[cjay]

It is true, we all respond to things differently. I know 100% I'd over train on that, I start to feel over trained around week 11 or my current lifting cycle, right after week 12 I take a full week off. Mine is much more mellow
Mon Chest back, forearms abs HIIT cardio 15-20mins
Tues legs, calves 25 mins recumbent bike
Wed 30mins recumbent bike 20 mins stretching
Thurs Shoulders, forearms abs 25 mins recumbent bike
Fri Bis tris, calves HIIT cardio 15-20 mins

I swap the muscle I work first each week and that week do a different set of exercises for each group

the whole cycle goes week 1-2 light weight reps 16-14-12 3 sets per exercise 3 exercises per group, week 3-4 medium weight reps 14-12-10, 5-10 heavy weight reps 12-10-8, weeks 11-12 power weight reps 12-8-4

[The Bear 79]

I think Sick Beard was saying he does 8 set per session. 2xs a week so he does 16 sets per week. Bear do you do each group 2xs a week or 1? Also are you doing 15 sets total per week or 15 each session. Sorry if youalready stated this. Slow learner.

Those are the numbers for each workout, I do that twice a week. So that's 30 sets per week for chest & so on & so on.

[>Good Luck<]

This is not about me, it's about the science behind muscle growth. But if you're really interested this is my current routine.

Day1: Chest/ arms/ abs
Day2: Legs.
Day3: Back/ shoulders/ Cardio

Rest then repeat.

I like this, how much rest? 1 day? 2 days?? More?

[canesfan804]

Those are the numbers for each workout, I do that twice a week. So that's 30 sets per week for chest & so on & so on.

Wow! You are a Bear! Do you wait 2 mins bt sets?

[warmouth]

Marcus? You there? As I have heard from Marcus describing to people many times before, pain is a good thing when it comes to working out. But back to the point. Pain is something us guys looking for size look for. We know that muscle breakdown leads to muscle growth, hence the pain of your muscles trying to rebuild themselves. Pain is good because it is usually a sign that we broke down the targetted muscles. We should try to push ourselves to the point of pain because it is effort on our part to do all we can. Not just in workouts, but in everything in life. We should desire to suceed in every aspect of what we do. Bill Gates, Forbes, Phil Heath. They dont get where they are by not pushing thier limits.

I am not saying that muscle growth cant be acheived by the lack of soreness. As we all know, soreness does to some extent go away after time. That is when it is good to change routines and constantly trying to evolve ourselves. Muscular atrophy, which is what the majority of us want here, only comes from beating the hell and crushing our muscles to a pulp. For the short term anyways. I mean, look at a carpenter. They usually have an enlarged forearm from swinging a hammer. Not that they have pain to build it, but over the long term it will happen. But this is not what we want. We want to maximize our gains as quickly as possible. I still stand behind my last post. A competitors advice or a 21 year olds....WITH pictures of both. Ill go with the proven method first, then if that doesnt work, Ill try anything.

[diabolicsoul]

Marcus? You there? As I have heard from Marcus describing to people many times before, pain is a good thing when it comes to working out. But back to the point. Pain is something us guys looking for size look for. We know that muscle breakdown leads to muscle growth, hence the pain of your muscles trying to rebuild themselves. Pain is good because it is usually a sign that we broke down the targetted muscles. We should try to push ourselves to the point of pain because it is effort on our part to do all we can. Not just in workouts, but in everything in life. We should desire to suceed in every aspect of what we do. Bill Gates, Forbes, Phil Heath. They dont get where they are by not pushing thier limits.

I am not saying that muscle growth cant be acheived by the lack of soreness. As we all know, soreness does to some extent go away after time. That is when it is good to change routines and constantly trying to evolve ourselves. Muscular atrophy, which is what the majority of us want here, only comes from beating the hell and crushing our muscles to a pulp. For the short term anyways. I mean, look at a carpenter. They usually have an enlarged forearm from swinging a hammer. Not that they have pain to build it, but over the long term it will happen. But this is not what we want. We want to maximize our gains as quickly as possible. I still stand behind my last post. A competitors advice or a 21 year olds....WITH pictures of both. Ill go with the proven method first, then if that doesnt work, Ill try anything.

Great post, except for bold. I know that it was just a typing error coming from you, but don't you mean muscular hypertrophy? Motivating post though

[The Bear 79]

Wow! You are a Bear! Do you wait 2 mins bt sets?

On everything but my traps, I find it difficult to exhaust my traps even under massive piles of weight, so I only rest my traps 30 seconds between .

[Sick_beard]

I like this, how much rest? 1 day? 2 days?? More?

3 days on, 1 day off

[crazy mike]

Those are the numbers for each workout, I do that twice a week. So that's 30 sets per week for chest & so on & so on.

Hey I can't believe this thread is still hot..cool beans. Anyway just got back from the gym and a meeting and I find this. Thanks "Bear" for the info on the number of sets ie: typical. So I'm only doing about 4 more and that works for me. Besides the issue of pain or not I was sure you were doing more than 8 sets and as you displayed it was 15 twice a week. As I stated and I think you guys heard enough out of me, I need to do a min of 15 -18 sets with three or more exercises. Thanks for the time in the thread an all the input, it wasn't mine but it grabbed me. I like this forum...crazy mike
Thanks "Sick beard"

[Sick_beard]

Salute you Mike!

Salute you all!

SB