winstrol and High b.p

**AZGOLDSMEMBER86** · 02-28-2013, 10:35 PM

Been on winstrol 50-75mg and test p 75mg eod
Noticed in week one after adding my winstrol my BP is 160/90-100
Also weird palpitations .not sure if it is winstrol or test. I think it may be the dose of winstrol ...
Any exp with this ?

**warmouth** · 02-28-2013, 11:01 PM

Are you taking anything for it? Those are pretty sucky numbers. Have you tried cialis? It isn't a permanent fix, but does help bp on cycle most times.

**AZGOLDSMEMBER86** · 03-01-2013, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by warmouth

Are you taking anything for it? Those are pretty sucky numbers. Have you tried cialis? It isn't a permanent fix, but does help bp on cycle most times.

Not taking anything for it. But ill drop winni and see how it goes . And yall i felt like crap too

**BBJT200** · 03-01-2013, 01:55 AM

I've got BP around that at the moment and feeling pretty shitty myself.

Cialis 5-10mg 2x/day, 5g arginine 2-3x/day usually keeps BP controlled for me if I'm making poor choices with substances

**crazy mike** · 03-01-2013, 06:52 AM

I've used Winstrol many, many times. When I was young I was on it for many cycles, injecting every day as well as oral now and have never had a BP problem with it. My BP used to run just a very little on the high side but I'm real good now. Good luck ...crazy mike

**warmouth** · 03-01-2013, 07:24 AM

Me too Mike. I have hypertension, but winny dosent effect it at all for me. I was kind of getting at OP might need to go get a check up. We can tell him what to take all day long, but if he has a pre existing condition, were doing more harm than good. OP, you may very well have BP issues due to AAS, or you might have hypertension. Might ought to give a doctor a shout to be sure.

**AZGOLDSMEMBER86** · 03-01-2013, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by warmouth

Me too Mike. I have hypertension, but winny dosent effect it at all for me. I was kind of getting at OP might need to go get a check up. We can tell him what to take all day long, but if he has a pre existing condition, were doing more harm than good. OP, you may very well have BP issues due to AAS, or you might have hypertension. Might ought to give a doctor a shout to be sure.

I made sure to have all of my levels checked before I started the cycle
I have always had really good cholesterol and no pre existing condition .
Woke up this morning and my blood pressure was 140/86

**AnabolicDoc** · 03-01-2013, 09:49 AM

In agreement with the previous posters, I would have expected testosterone to be the cause of your elevated BP rather than the winstrol . Are you taking an AI? As not taking one while on aromatizing compounds can lead to elevated BP (secondary to increased blood volume/water retention).

Glad to see that dropping the winstrol resulted in a lower BP. I'm sure you'll continue to keep an eye on it as you can't just go by one BP reading and ideally your BP should be under 130/80.

**warmouth** · 03-01-2013, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by AnabolicDoc

In agreement with the previous posters, I would have expected testosterone to be the cause of your elevated BP rather than the winstrol . Are you taking an AI? As not taking one while on aromatizing compounds can lead to elevated BP (secondary to increased blood volume/water retention).

Glad to see that dropping the winstrol resulted in a lower BP. I'm sure you'll continue to keep an eye on it as you can't just go by one BP reading and ideally your BP should be under 130/80.

And voila!

**jimmyinkedup** · 03-01-2013, 10:09 AM

I too am curious if you are taking an ai. You should be but not necessarily because of BP. In fact often lowering e2 has no effect on BP - there are other effects caused by aas that can cause hypertension.

**AZGOLDSMEMBER86** · 03-01-2013, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

I too am curious if you are taking an ai. You should be but not necessarily because of BP. In fact often lowering e2 has no effect on BP - there are other effects caused by aas that can cause hypertension.

I was prescribed nolva for a few months fron the endo. I finished and started my cycle a week after .
SERMS yes .no AI .
I also have been stressed about some personal shit too.maybe just a combo . Test or winstrol Never give me hypertension it's my fave to run together . And yess ill check it regularly .

**AZGOLDSMEMBER86** · 03-01-2013, 11:29 AM

On a side note anyone exp heart burn on winstrol ? Or odd palpitations ?

**AZGOLDSMEMBER86** · 03-01-2013, 01:06 PM

Bump

**warmouth** · 03-01-2013, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by AZGOLDSMEMBER86

On a side note anyone exp heart burn on winstrol ? Or odd palpitations ?

Heartburn.....yes if take orally. Need to get on that AI if your test dose is up there.

**AZGOLDSMEMBER86** · 03-01-2013, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by warmouth

Heartburn.....yes if take orally. Need to get on that AI if your test dose is up there.

Hmm ok ya its a liquid oral .
All i got is letro lol and tons Of nolva . I usually dont get any bloat or gyno flair ups with prop

**warmouth** · 03-01-2013, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by AZGOLDSMEMBER86

Hmm ok ya its a liquid oral .
All i got is letro lol and tons Of nolva . I usually dont get any bloat or gyno flair ups with prop

Bloat and gyno are the least important side effects. Lipids and BP issues are the most important in my book.

**Provita** · 03-01-2013, 04:34 PM

My BP ran a bit high when I was on cycle. Got it down by taking a half asprin for a couple of days. It lowered my bp and it stayed normal after that. This is just my opinion from my experience...

Edit: I ran different compounds than you are on.

**MuscleInk** · 03-01-2013, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by warmouth

Bloat and gyno are the least important side effects. Lipids and BP issues are the most important in my book.

This has to be one of the most frequent errors people make about AIs (only taking to reduce bloat or gyno). People should spend a lot more time understanding the true risks of elevated estrogen.

Adex and letro will also negatively effect BP, aromasin less so.

**AZGOLDSMEMBER86** · 03-01-2013, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

This has to be one of the most frequent errors people make about AIs (only taking to reduce bloat or gyno). People should spend a lot more time understanding the true risks of elevated estrogen.

Adex and letro will also negatively effect BP, aromasin less so.

Thanks man. You think if i add nolva again 10mg a day will help until i get aromasin ?

**jimmyinkedup** · 03-01-2013, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

This has to be one of the most frequent errors people make about AIs (only taking to reduce bloat or gyno). People should spend a lot more time understanding the true risks of elevated estrogen.

Adex and letro will also negatively effect BP, aromasin less so.

Thank you for posting the bold. So often not understood, most in fact believe the opposite. It is so much the case with adex that astra zeneca was required to contact all physicians and have them inform any patients using adex of this potential side effect as it was not initially stated.

**MuscleInk** · 03-01-2013, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

Thank you for posting the bold. So often not understood, most in fact believe the opposite. It is so much the case with adex that astra zeneca was required to contact all physicians and have them inform any patients using adex of this potential side effect as it was not initially stated.

Yes! Anabolic Doc and I are PMing on this topic. I'm still amazed by the number of oncologists treating patients with AIs in adjuvant settings that are unaware of the effects of AIs on lipid metabolism.

A secondary (though lesser) concern is that over suppression of aromatase can effect hepatic mitochondrial function and lead to possible hepatic steatosis.

**MuscleInk** · 03-01-2013, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by AZGOLDSMEMBER86

Thanks man. You think if i add nolva again 10mg a day will help until i get aromasin ?

If nolva is all you have, yes, for a short term fix I would run it to control E2 binding but get back to the proper AI ASAP.

**crazy mike** · 03-01-2013, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

I too am curious if you are taking an ai. You should be but not necessarily because of BP. In fact often lowering e2 has no effect on BP - there are other effects caused by aas that can cause hypertension.

Originally Posted by AZGOLDSMEMBER86

On a side note anyone exp heart burn on winstrol ? Or odd palpitations ?

there are so many factors that can cause high BP with aas. If you have the heartburn and the palpitations you should see a doc, For the palp. Also the BP of 140/86 is not a big worry if that's as high as it gets. Your still under the 90's. I'm good today and I've been all over the scale at one time or another. It the consistency of the elevations. Does it spike or does it elevate and stay, with side effects. slow down n be cool ... crazy mike

**jimmyinkedup** · 03-01-2013, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

Yes! Anabolic Doc and I are PMing on this topic. I'm still amazed by the number of oncologists treating patients with AIs in adjuvant settings that are unaware of the effects of AIs on lipid metabolism.

A secondary (though lesser) concern is that over suppression of aromatase can effect hepatic mitochondrial function and lead to possible hepatic steatosis.

This is a main area where a type 1 AI like exemestane seems to pull ahead of other AI options. Im actually writing on use of AI's on cycle at this very moment. Id certainly welcome some input / constructive criticism. If its cool Id like to share what I write with you before posting and get your thoughts. Or I can post it when its done and we can ALL tweek it. Whatever. The topic has my intent interest at the moment.

**warmouth** · 03-01-2013, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

This is a main area where a type 1 AI like exemestane seems to pull ahead of other AI options. Im actually writing on use of AI's on cycle at this very moment. Id certainly welcome some input / constructive criticism. If its cool Id like to share what I write with you before posting and get your thoughts. Or I can post it when its done and we can ALL tweek it. Whatever. The topic has my intent interest at the moment.

Sounds great Jimmy. I love everyones research and posts.
On a side note.... I ordered a monster order from AR this week. Went ahead and got some more AI. I had stane in the cart, then kept dropping and adding stuff. Ended up acidentally switching the stane for adex like an idiot without even double checking. Paid for it. Adex isn't good for me with my lipids, and with me trying to improve them, I felt like an idiot, especially with the 28% discount they had.
But id like, as well as others, to see what type of research you've came up with.

**Sgt. Hartman** · 03-01-2013, 09:09 PM

Strange Aromasin isn't prescribed for TRT purposes. I know relatively speaking its new but I think i remember reading it's been around for 10 years or so now so it seems like the HRT community would've caught on to the far superior AI (IMO).

**MuscleInk** · 03-01-2013, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

This is a main area where a type 1 AI like exemestane seems to pull ahead of other AI options. Im actually writing on use of AI's on cycle at this very moment. Id certainly welcome some input / constructive criticism. If its cool Id like to share what I write with you before posting and get your thoughts. Or I can post it when its done and we can ALL tweek it. Whatever. The topic has my intent interest at the moment.

I think that would be an excellent topic Jimmy. The published literature is mixed and inconclusive and most are based on adjuvant cancer settings with AIs or aromatase knockout models.

I've been trying to get through more published literature on this topic for personal and professional reasons but a detailed summary or informed opinions would be very useful in this forum.

As I've said, some people are AIs only as needed to control bloat or gyno but there are many more reasons beyond vanity to include a good AI. As our discussion shows however, not all AIs are the same and some may be a safer choice than others wrt lipid metabolism and cardiac health.

**MuscleInk** · 03-01-2013, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by Sgt. Hartman

Strange Aromasin isn't prescribed for TRT purposes. I know relatively speaking its new but I think i remember reading it's been around for 10 years or so now so it seems like the HRT community would've caught on to the far superior AI (IMO).

Unfortunately, as we've seen too many times, medical professionals don't often have all the (current) information when prescribing treatment protocols. One would hope HRT clinics would be more aware of the efficacy and risks of various AIs but regrettably, many clinics are profit driven and generally follow the status quo even when it may not be the best possible treatment approach.

My business partner is an oncologist of 20 years and when I asked about the differentials on lipid metabolism between AIs, he had no idea. In fact, he wasn't aware it was an issue at all.

**jimmyinkedup** · 03-02-2013, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

I think that would be an excellent topic Jimmy. The published literature is mixed and inconclusive and most are based on adjuvant cancer settings with AIs or aromatase knockout models.

I've been trying to get through more published literature on this topic for personal and professional reasons but a detailed summary or informed opinions would be very useful in this forum.

As I've said, some people are AIs only as needed to control bloat or gyno but there are many more reasons beyond vanity to include a good AI. As our discussion shows however, not all AIs are the same and some may be a safer choice than others wrt lipid metabolism and cardiac health.

It is an often misunderstood area in many ways. I often see people quoting AI effectiveness etc using #'s based on females when in fact it is very diff in males. The fatty liver aspect is tough to find concrete data in humans. Ive seen studies on mice and read in a google book the effect occurs in humans but am now trying to track the ref used in book to come up with some more concrete data in the form of an actual human study or even look for some case studies. As Sarge pointed out and as evidenced in the hrt forum here many docs that do prescribe trt are lacking in adequate knowledge in this area. AnwaySwifto did a write up and touched on some things - I wanna take it further.

**REBORN52** · 03-02-2013, 10:17 AM

I'm currently running a Test e/winnie cycle and I'm not so sure the win doesn't help keep my bp down some by keeping the water off me. Now my diet is near perfect. I also drink a ton of water every day. To me, alot of how my body responds to aas has to do with everything else I'm putting in it. I really think thats why the vets on here really drive home being in better shape before using and bf% is always a good indicator of where someone is at from a physical standpoint. I cant tell you how fast someone can learn if they would take the time to research this site and not just be worried about sources and juice.

And I'm not reffering to the OP on the last part, just speaking in general terms.