hypothetical, which would be better for a recomp?

[BBJT200]

If I were to look into doing a recomp from 15% bf or so, what do you guys think would be my best option? All ancilaries on hand, plenty of supplies. money isn't an issue.
196lbs 15% BF. currently. I had a screwup with a high dose of t3 and a ton of cortisone, and went from 11% bf to 15%ish in a week...depressing as hell to watch happen.
It was as if every bite of food I ate went straight to my belly. It was confusing for the first couple days until I caught on to what was happening. Originally the cortisone was speeding up fat loss paired with a high dose of t3, and then eventually things went the other way.

Goal is around 190 @ 8% bf by June 1. [Gain 12lbs LBM, drop 18lbs fat.]
Current maintenance cals = 2508 w\ no exercise based on LBM.
This is going to be very tough, but I think I can do it or at least get within 75% of my goal in that time-frame.
The main priority is dropping bf down to 11% ASAP, that is the number one priority.

2x/day gym sessions. 2-3 hrs AM fasted cardio - mostly walking + 1hr lifting in the evening followed by 1hr walking
- Cardio alone is ~2lbs of fat loss per week even if I ate at maintenance.
Fast from 10pm - noon. Doing cardio from 8am-noon.

2days on lifting, 1 day off. Double LISS cardio on 'off' days. Every 8th day will be a complete rest day.
Planning 2500cal on lift days, 2000 cals on non lift days.

4mg albuterol 4x/day
75mcg t3/day [hg tabs coming soon]
2mg keto daily
.75mg prami nightly until my caber arrives.


What would be a better choice for a recomp, focusing slightly more on cutting?
100mg var ED
50mg tren ED (350/wk)
1g test prop/wk
+[100mg test E TRT]

100mg test E/wk [trt]
350mg tren/wk
100mg var ED


Also...with these high doses of anabolics, could I throw in HIIT and higher intensity cardio with out muscle loss?
I'd like to speed up the rate at which i'm burning cals, but will be glycogen depleted from t3 and don't want to shrink.


Some say that the var is a waste with tren, but I don't know if I agree.
Even for that extra 5% benefit, i'm willing to spend the money on var. Not to mention I love the appetite suppression it gives me that tren does not.
The saying is more is not always better. Just wondering where to draw the line--I need to make the fastest change possible.
I work as a model--I went from working condition to flabby fatass in a week from cortisone. I've gotta fix this ASAP, willing to anything to do so.

If anyone can give me any advice, I would really appreciate it. I'm not usually one to ask for help.
Constructive criticism is great.
Please don't just say something like, "you're a moron for screwing around with cortisone." - if you're going to post feel free to poke fun, but at least offer some advice

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

Primarily focus on your diet. If you don't eat properly then don't medicate. Your goals are obtainable without AAS, you could achieve that naturally. Especially when you're including some of the strongest fat burning assisting AAS.

Anyways,

I would do the 2nd choice. No need to be taking over a gram of test when your eating that low of cals. After your disaster run with T3 I would even drop it and leave your thyroid alone for a long time. Var/Tren alone will do more then enough.

Again, you're not going to be as happy if your diet isn't pounded down to a science and perfected. From what I've learned this stuff isn't magic my friend

[BBJT200]

Primarily focus on your diet. If you don't eat properly then don't medicate. Your goals are obtainable without AAS, you could achieve that naturally. Especially when you're including some of the strongest fat burning assisting AAS.

Anyways,

I would do the 2nd choice. No need to be taking over a gram of test when your eating that low of cals. After your disaster run with T3 I would even drop it and leave your thyroid alone for a long time. Var/Tren alone will do more then enough.

Again, you're not going to be as happy if your diet isn't pounded down to a science and perfected. From what I've learned this stuff isn't magic my friend

Dropping the t3 altogether would be dumb as i've been on enough of a dose to completely suppress my thyroid for like 6 months.
Cutting it off would just set me up for more weight gain, and right now I have to fix my physique to get back to work. No work = I can't pay my bills.
Definitely headed to the diet section to bounce some ideas off of our vets. I think I have something pretty good lined up, but will definitely be checking it.

One thing I hate about this board is the prevailing notion of 'you must do everything perfectly to justify using aas' or 'you can do that naturally'
WRONG
AAS is a tool. If you have it, and it is reasonably safe to use it, there is no reason not to. Use the tools you have at your disposal to solve your problems in the most efficient way possible.
My testes are dead from trauma, there's no more damage I can cause as long as I watch bloodwork which I am.

My body is my livelihood, I have no issue with running compounds for the next 15 years to hold a career as many do.


When you say there is no need to run over a gram of test with that low of cals, what is your reasoning?
Wouldn't there still be a little added benefit, as long as I manage my estrogen levels?
More androgens should prevent a higher level of muscle wasting, as well as keep aggression up etc. no?

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

I'm just saying keep your diet organized and clean and you will be happy with the results. I've dirty bulked, I've only eaten when hungry to cut, I've made good food choices on my plate.

Nothing worked better though then having a solid day by day meal plan that I followed throughout all my cycles hands down. If your serious enough to do heavy AAS and cycle I'm sure you can take time to build a solid foundation diet to follow on cycle.

Just saying what worked and didn't work for me bud

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

I'm not saying do everything perfectly, maybe you don't like to do it that way, that's fine.

Me personally, I'm not going to spend all my time and money and put myself through a cycle unless I know I have everything prepared and perfected .

[BBJT200]

Gotcha, that is a fair response.
I guess I'm just kind of jaded from the typical response on this forum about everything being perfect to justify AAS.
I definitely see the benefit of having a day by day diet plan. I'm working on one tonight and starting it up tomorrow. It's a good way to keep yourself accountable and make sure you dont overeat on rest days.
Sorry if I came across as hostile.

[JohnnnyBlazzze]

No worries, I get the same jaded feeling when I mention to people they need to eat properly and they end up spending more time trying to justify why diet and nutrition isn't a big deal rather then just heading to the nutrition diet and figuring out how to build a proper diet plan. 80% of this board avoids the nutrition section like a plague lol.

Let's be honest, nobody wants to sit down and build a diet, it's tidius and annoying. It's even worse when you have no clue how to do it lol.

Shit, If I didn't need to go lift and train in a gym to build muscle you think I would take the time out of my day to go do it? No...same goes for the food you shuffle down your mouth

[< <Samson> >]

100mg var ED
50mg tren ED (350/wk)
1g test prop/wk
+[100mg test E TRT]


Well, I will be running it close to about the same. But no var(well, maybe).


why so much test?

How many weeks on the Var?

How many weeks total?


And I sure wish this was naturally obtainable. I am hoping for about the same off my next cycle of TA and Prop.

[Time1]

does this guy ever stop?

[Time1]

wHY THE Fk would u run 1gram of Test when trying to preserve muscle. 300mg a week is sufficent. THERES hardly any point running high dosages of gear to recomp/diet down or eat at maintenance fkin waste of money. Bro you really need to step away from the needle and research more. Your goals are acheivable natty and your looking at using high dosages of anabolics to clearly make up for your lack of hard work/ethic

Step away mate

[BBJT200]

wHY THE Fk would u run 1gram of Test when trying to preserve muscle. 300mg a week is sufficent. THERES hardly any point running high dosages of gear to recomp/diet down or eat at maintenance fkin waste of money. Bro you really need to step away from the needle and research more. Your goals are acheivable natty and your looking at using high dosages of anabolics to clearly make up for your lack of hard work/ethic

Step away mate

I'm not just trying to preserve, i'm trying to do a serious recomp. I may end up bringing cals up depending on how things go, will adjust as I see needed.
Honestly I felt like shit on 100mg test / 350mg tren . Maybe my old kalpa test is slightly underdosed and i had low-t, who knows...but I don't have time to f*** around

i'm on a timeframe for work. this isn't being done as a hobby--think of me as an actor that has to build a certain physique for a role, with a deadline.
1g of test per week costs me less than buying a combo meal at jack in the box once a month. If I get an extra 100 calories per day of fat loss, it's worth it to me.

Not to mention, since i'm fasting half the day, and then eating half of the day around my lifting schedule, the extra test will bump up the gains from my evening feed.

If I don't make the deadline, I lose my job, I lose my house, car, etc.

[BBJT200]

Using high doses to cover minor flaws in diet is not necessarily being lazy or not willing to put in the hard work.

Its a matter of being a full time college student and trying to keep a modeling job to pay for it. Im using the tools in my toolbox to solve my problem the best I can.

Diet will be worked on, and I already stated that I am dedicating over four hours a day to this recomp; that hardly says not willing to put in effort.

[cj111]

What hes trying to say is 500mg will do the same thing as 1g if youre just trying to maintain...
As far as your life falling apart if you don't make the dead line...what is that all about?

[BBJT200]

You ever been in a situation where you lose your job if you don't make a deadline?
No job = no money, and I got bills to pay.

Why are people under the impression that I'm trying to maintain? I said I was trying to recomp.
In a recomp, 1000mg is superior to 500mg.

[Time1]

You ever been in a situation where you lose your job if you don't make a deadline?
No job = no money, and I got bills to pay.

Why are people under the impression that I'm trying to maintain? I said I was trying to recomp.
In a recomp, 1000mg is superior to 500mg.

well find another job. Your playing with your health especially at your age mate! You arent invinsible. Also recomps are quite hard to do. Either gain muscle or lose fat. Both require different methods correct?

pick and choose one. Bit hard to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time! Ask Atomoni. Someone PM him to get in here

[cj111]

2x/day gym sessions. 2-3 hrs AM fasted cardio - mostly walking + 1hr lifting in the evening followed by 1hr walking

You're going to burn out doing all that.. more isn't better.

[Time1]

Seems like you wanna cut more. Well i say 250mg test a week. With some T3 and var at the end or mast to harden up. Thats it!

no need for super dosages mate. How is 1000mg more superior in a hypercaloric state comparte to 300mg? Its a WASTE OF MONEY!

[< <Samson> >]

1g a week of test has no real positive upside compared to 500-600mg.

Good luck, with whatever it is you are trying to do.

[qscgugcsq]

Well, it's all personnal opinion related comment... You don't care about our opinion and that's fine by me XD You want Cycle related comments, there you go.

1g test is alot, 500mg would be plenty but you should run more test than your TRT dose. Tren is harsh on the moral so more test will help you with that as long as you keep control of your E2. However, If you see are able to deal with the estrogen at 1g test/week and if you can afford it. I'm saying, Why not.

Good luck in your recomp.

[BBJT200]

Well, it's all personnal opinion related comment... You don't care about our opinion and that's fine by me XD You want Cycle related comments, there you go.

1g test is alot, 500mg would be plenty but you should run more test than your TRT dose. Tren is harsh on the moral so more test will help you with that as long as you keep control of your E2. However, If you see are able to deal with the estrogen at 1g test/week and if you can afford it. I'm saying, Why not.

Good luck in your recomp.

Agreed, that's what I was thinking in regards to a higher test dose. I feel pretty down and depressed on tren and trt test, so I figure more test will give me more stamina.
I think I should be able to manage the estrogen. Running 25mg exemestane per day, and going to watch the e2. I'm going to get bloodwork in two weeks and see where I'm at.

If all else fails, I can generally get away with running letro as I had to in my last high dose test cycle. I bumped up to a gram of test and just ran 1.25mg letro per day and felt great.
I have adrenal problems so I always have some estrogen production from my adrenal glands regardless of aromatase inhibition. It prevents me from crashing my estrogen unless i'm going through a period of time with absolutely no stress or worry.

I do care about the opinions and advice people are giving me; I'm just looking for solid reasons and evidence as to why the opinion is what it is.

1g a week of test has no real positive upside compared to 500-600mg.

Good luck, with whatever it is you are trying to do.

I'm not saying you are wrong--
Do you have any data to support this, or is it just based on opinion?
From the reports of many others, i've heard comments like "after running 1g of test per week, i'll never run less." - That tells me there's potentially something to gain. Even if it's just a tiny improvement

Seems like you wanna cut more. Well i say 250mg test a week. With some T3 and var at the end or mast to harden up. Thats it!

no need for super dosages mate. How is 1000mg more superior in a hypercaloric state comparte to 300mg? Its a WASTE OF MONEY!

From my understanding, higher dosages provide a higher level of protection against catabolism, not to mention a higher dose of test is going to give me more energy.
And like I said about the money--money is not an issue. Test is cheap incredibly for me as I make my own and do not use UGL's.

You're going to burn out doing all that.. more isn't better.

If I were running or doing high intensity cardio, I would agree.
Why do pro bb's walk 60 mins 3x/day? Because it works. Do you have anything to support your claim, or is it just an opinion?

well find another job. Your playing with your health especially at your age mate! You arent invinsible. Also recomps are quite hard to do. Either gain muscle or lose fat. Both require different methods correct?

pick and choose one. Bit hard to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time! Ask Atomoni. Someone PM him to get in here

Just find another job...you have no idea the situation I'm in. I live and am stuck in a tiny farming town. I can't afford to move right now, but will be able to after I get back to work.
There are literally NO jobs here. Even the minimum wage crap is so full that it's a waste of time even looking because there are so few jobs and so many people in need of one.

Partial fasting w\ cardio in the am, lifting and slightly overeating at night while on anabolics should give a recomp effect.
plus, tren's recomping abilities are known to be great.
It's obviously much more dramatic to go one way or the other, but I would like to stay around the 190 mark.

[Perseverance1]

I don't get why people are saying you can build 12 pounds of LBM while losing 18 pounds of fat in under 3 months naturally.....you guys are either retarded or have some serious reading comprehension issues.

OP, IMO I would run as much tren as you can handle (dont take so much your studies start to suffer) as well as 1G of test and the var. Why not? As long as you're monitoring your bloodwork and checking your blood pressure a few times a day you should be fine.

I've got a similar issue as you (muscle tear + full shutdown couldn't do pct....law was involved) that caused me to go from about 226 @ 14% (mid cycle) down to 200 @ around 20% 3-4 months later. My muscle tear is almost healed up and I'll be doing a serious recomp too, hoping to gain at least 20 pounds LBM while dropping about 20-25 pounds of fat by August 1st.


My stack is going to go something like this:

Test e 250
Tren e 700

Then after my first DNP cycle ill start using mast at around 700-800mg (depends on what date I start).


On top of these drugs I'll be using a boatload of different peptides. I would recommend you look into IGF-1 Lr3, CJC-1295 w/o DAC, and GHRP-6 to start.

The most important thing is DO NOT slack when it comes to researching these compounds and how they will interact with your body as well as what sides to be wary of and how to control the sides. Get bloodwork religiously and check your BP as many times a day as you can manage. I'll be the first to admit that even after literally hundreds of hours of research I'm still a student when it comes to these compounds but feel free to PM me with whatever questions you come up with. I'll do my best to deliver concise and informative answers.

Good luck.

[cj111]

**** it, best of luck, you obviously know what youre doing, so why did you even bother posting to ask for help

[BBJT200]

**** it, best of luck, you obviously know what youre doing, so why did you even bother posting to ask for help

I know pretty well what I'm doing. I'm asking for help(and making sure what I understand is correct) in regards to fine tuning and looking for quality responses, not broscience garbage or generalizations.
I'm not arguing with you about your "more isn't better" comment. I offered a counter and asked for you to back up your claim.

I don't get why people are saying you can build 12 pounds of LBM while losing 18 pounds of fat in under 3 months naturally.....you guys are either retarded or have some serious reading comprehension issues.

OP, IMO I would run as much tren as you can handle (dont take so much your studies start to suffer) as well as 1G of test and the var. Why not? As long as you're monitoring your bloodwork and checking your blood pressure a few times a day you should be fine.

I've got a similar issue as you (muscle tear + full shutdown couldn't do pct....law was involved) that caused me to go from about 226 @ 14% (mid cycle) down to 200 @ around 20% 3-4 months later. My muscle tear is almost healed up and I'll be doing a serious recomp too, hoping to gain at least 20 pounds LBM while dropping about 20-25 pounds of fat by August 1st.


My stack is going to go something like this:

Test e 250
Tren e 700

Then after my first DNP cycle ill start using mast at around 700-800mg (depends on what date I start).


On top of these drugs I'll be using a boatload of different peptides. I would recommend you look into IGF-1 Lr3, CJC-1295 w/o DAC, and GHRP-6 to start.

The most important thing is DO NOT slack when it comes to researching these compounds and how they will interact with your body as well as what sides to be wary of and how to control the sides. Get bloodwork religiously and check your BP as many times a day as you can manage. I'll be the first to admit that even after literally hundreds of hours of research I'm still a student when it comes to these compounds but feel free to PM me with whatever questions you come up with. I'll do my best to deliver concise and informative answers.

Good luck.

350 is about as much as I can handle at the moment. First time run...I started 3.5 weeks ago on 100mg ED. Two weeks into it, the paranoia, depression, and tren asthma was just too much. Dropped to 525mg/wk for 5 days. Still couldn't breathe.... Still too much, dropped to 50mg ED - 350mg/wk.
I have no sides at 350/wk, and feel pretty good.

I've thought about using DNP, just need to look into it a bit more I guess.

Thank you for the quality response, Preseverance1!
I'm really sorry to hear about your run-in with the law and having to watch your body deteriorate.

I'm going to post some pictures to illustrate better what happened over the last week.
This was horrifying to watch happen day by day. This took SEVEN DAYS to happen. Now that's a real mind-f***

Cortisone + high t3 dose = this

[redz]

Wow I'd be pissed! this has me thinking twice about my 120mcg T3 dose.

[BBJT200]

I considered suicide 3 nights ago, during the time I had no idea what was happening and couldn't stop it.

The issue here was the cortisone.
Having severe adrenal fatigue, my body produces little to no cortisol. So, when taking t3, I feel like I got ran over by a truck.
I tried using cortisone cream(cortisol, essentially), and it worked amazingly for about a week and a half.
I think I started using too much.

When my t3 dose went from "250mgc/day" (which was probably like 60-100, due to old or underdosed bottle), to an actual 250mcg/day(new bottle), I went into an ENORMOUS caloric deficit.
Combine that with excessive cortisol levels, and you are basically setting your body up to catabolize muscle tissue for energy and store EVERYTHING you eat as fat.

At least, now I know. *smh

[Far from massive]

Never done T3, but thanks for the post very informative.

[BBJT200]

Glad to at least help other people learn from my mistakes!

[Perseverance1]

Yeah man I hear ya on the tren sides. I actually managed to acquire some while I'm waiting to leave Japan and I've been on 350mg/week for a solid month...even though I can't work out my upper body i'm still putting on a little muscle mass (while at a deficit/using T3/clen ). People have been asking me if my tear is healed and if I've been lifting again lol. It's truly a magical substance if you have a 100% solid clean diet. I can't wait to start 700/wk after I'm healed and I finish my first DNP cycle.

[BBJT200]

Yeah that sounds pretty sweet to do after the dnp .

The sides for me at 700 were unbearable. Mentally so messed up.
525 probably could have been ok but ill try it next run. Since I blast and cruise on trt, its not like I have to wait long


Good luck with the tear bro. Hope it heals quick

[gymfu]

I know pretty well what I'm doing. I'm asking for help(and making sure what I understand is correct) in regards to fine tuning and looking for quality responses, not broscience garbage or generalizations.
I'm not arguing with you about your "more isn't better" comment. I offered a counter and asked for you to back up your claim.

350 is about as much as I can handle at the moment. First time run...I started 3.5 weeks ago on 100mg ED. Two weeks into it, the paranoia, depression, and tren asthma was just too much. Dropped to 525mg/wk for 5 days. Still couldn't breathe.... Still too much, dropped to 50mg ED - 350mg/wk.
I have no sides at 350/wk, and feel pretty good.

I've thought about using DNP , just need to look into it a bit more I guess.

Thank you for the quality response, Preseverance1!
I'm really sorry to hear about your run-in with the law and having to watch your body deteriorate.

I'm going to post some pictures to illustrate better what happened over the last week.
This was horrifying to watch happen day by day. This took SEVEN DAYS to happen. Now that's a real mind-f***

Cortisone + high t3 dose = this

Are you claiming that happened in seven days?

[cj111]

Shredded in 7 days!
I call bs on that happening in 7 days

[gymfu]

Shredded in 7 days!
I call bs on that happening in 7 days

Uh...yea. NO WAY that's seven days.

[Perseverance1]

Shredded in 7 days!
I call bs on that happening in 7 days

He isn't claiming to have gotten shredded in 7 days...he's saying he got fat in 7 days. Based on the story he tells I actually believe him too. 250mcg of t3 is ridiculous.

[GymHero]

He isn't claiming to have gotten shredded in 7 days...he's saying he got fat in 7 days. Based on the story he tells I actually believe him too. 250mcg of t3 is ridiculous.

Ya this ^ he said he turned into a fatty

[BBJT200]

Im dead serious bro.
Dont f*** around with cortisone when youre on high dose t3

[BBJT200]

No no no, shredded to fat in seven days. No binge eating, nothing out of the ordinary food wise.

[gymfu]

Sorry bro, I don't buy it. No way that happened either way in 7 days, I don't think the body is capable of that.

[< <Samson> >]

Well, I suppose anything is possible.

Best cut I had got me to 169 pounds back when I was way smaller. In a 3 day bender in Vegas I gained 15 pounds flat.


Never thought that was possible. From six pack straight to flab.

[Perseverance1]

I've lost 10 pounds in 2 days eating surplus cals when coming off 60mg dbol a day....

[cj111]

Never thought that was possible. From six pack straight to flab.

lol@this, now that's bulking