To all "Wise" member...

**Papa Smurf** · 03-31-2013, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by musclebrah

And again the experience members are not helpful at all op. all they do is throw articles at your face.
"The young & steroids " etc..

They don't explain anything.

Read We don't want to spoon feed you!!

**MuscleInk** · 03-31-2013, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by musclebrah

And again the experience members are not helpful at all op. all they do is throw articles at your face.
"The young & steroids " etc..

They don't explain anything.

It's not the clarity of our explanation that is the problem but the lack of comprehension among young guys. We provide numerous explanations citing reasons why you should wait to cycle. Our answers aren't what you wish to hear so you regurgitate the same questions repeatedly hoping for someone to condone your shortsighted decision.

MuscleInk

**nafnlaus** · 03-31-2013, 06:20 PM

hey, i read all of the comments and i agree with most of it. I am 20 my self and i posted a question here regarding a c.ycle and i got no replies. I get it that you don't like to help idiots who want to get big without thinking about long term effect. But there are few like me that are looking into this, estimating the risk/gain ratio because we want some quality in life. I am asking how to safely use d.rugs that can help with my issues, but the d.rugs them selves are illegal in the country. You can look at this this way - option 1. i can in an informed way increase the odds of good recovery with d.rugs(d.rug free recovery has failed).
option 2. i use the d.rugs with little knowledge and probably mess up. option 3: i don't use anything other than the doctor is willing to give me, the prescribed pain killers and become a morp.hine addict - game over.
i hope you see this isn't all black and white

happy ishtar

**m_donnelly** · 03-31-2013, 06:22 PM

I guess I don't enough know why people are asking these kinds of questions in the first place... All of the information you'll ever need to run a cycle is on the stickies.. People need to stop poking around for information on cycles and start asking if its safe for them to even start using AAS. But, I guess folks will have to find our the hard way that AAS are serious phucking drugs, not supplements. Maybe the senior members need to start asking for IQs along with the rest of the stats.

**kelkel** · 03-31-2013, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by nafnlaus

hey, i read all of the comments and i agree with most of it. I am 20 my self and i posted a question here regarding a c.ycle and i got no replies. I get it that you don't like to help idiots who want to get big without thinking about long term effect. But there are few like me that are looking into this, estimating the risk/gain ratio because we want some quality in life. I am asking how to safely use d.rugs that can help with my issues, but the d.rugs them selves are illegal in the country. You can look at this this way - option 1. i can in an informed way increase the odds of good recovery with d.rugs(d.rug free recovery has failed).
option 2. i use the d.rugs with little knowledge and probably mess up. option 3: i don't use anything other than the doctor is willing to give me, the prescribed pain killers and become a morp.hine addict - game over.
i hope you see this isn't all black and white

happy ishtar

If you have a legitimate medical issue than you should see a competent doctor. Cycling will not help you with your issues and at a young age can possibly create even more, as you know. If you have a diagnosed hormonal issue and need TRT the advice is the same, a competent doc. Visit the HRT Forum and read up!

**MickeyKnox** · 03-31-2013, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by nafnlaus

hey, i read all of the comments and i agree with most of it. I am 20 my self and i posted a question here regarding a c.ycle and i got no replies. I get it that you don't like to help idiots who want to get big without thinking about long term effect. But there are few like me that are looking into this, estimating the risk/gain ratio because we want some quality in life. I am asking how to safely use d.rugs that can help with my issues, but the d.rugs them selves are illegal in the country. You can look at this this way - option 1. i can in an informed way increase the odds of good recovery with d.rugs(d.rug free recovery has failed).
option 2. i use the d.rugs with little knowledge and probably mess up. option 3: i don't use anything other than the doctor is willing to give me, the prescribed pain killers and become a morp.hine addict - game over.
i hope you see this isn't all black and white

happy ishtar

Get real.

You're not looking for "quality of life", you're looking for a quick fix because the Ego part of your psyche is being overwhelmed by the Id. If you'd stop for a moment and listen to yourself, you'd realize how ridiculous that comment is.

You received no replies simply because the majority does not feel comfortable advising a 20 years old who is not old enough, let alone mature enough, to use AAS. And if you truly are "looking into this" like you suggest, then you'll soon realize what the rest of us know about a young and developing endocrine system. And hopefully then, you'll accept and understand our reservations about contributing to your possible health complications.

But ultimately, the advice KelKel gave you about seeing a proper medical professional, is the best so far - if in fact you are suffering from primary or secondary hypogonadism.

**Lunk1** · 03-31-2013, 07:11 PM

Wont lie..i gave a 19 y.o. advice on a Tren cycle a while back. Why? because he was mature, educated, geneticaly gifted, had a fantastic base to compete and may be headed towards pro. He proved it in conversation and pics.

This was 1 out of hundreds, possibly thousands. Most have none of the above listed qualities!

**OnTheSauce** · 03-31-2013, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

Wont lie..i gave a 19 y.o. advice on a Tren cycle a while back. Why? because he was mature, educated, geneticaly gifted, had a fantastic base to compete and may be headed towards pro. He proved it in conversation and pics.

This was 1 out of hundreds, possibly thousands. Most have none of the above listed qualities!

Ive done the same. Its crazy to me all my huge friends always come to me for advice and knowledge. But ill gladly help since they have a chance at actually making a living doing this. Such as my 21yr old friend who is 6'0 250lb around 9% bf. Lol. Yeah he has a chance at going pro. And my 24yr old buddy who is 5'7 250lbs around same bf.

**Armykid93** · 03-31-2013, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by nafnlaus

hey, i read all of the comments and i agree with most of it. I am 20 my self and i posted a question here regarding a c.ycle and i got no replies. I get it that you don't like to help idiots who want to get big without thinking about long term effect. But there are few like me that are looking into this, estimating the risk/gain ratio because we want some quality in life. I am asking how to safely use d.rugs that can help with my issues, but the d.rugs them selves are illegal in the country. You can look at this this way - option 1. i can in an informed way increase the odds of good recovery with d.rugs(d.rug free recovery has failed).
option 2. i use the d.rugs with little knowledge and probably mess up. option 3: i don't use anything other than the doctor is willing to give me, the prescribed pain killers and become a morp.hine addict - game over.
i hope you see this isn't all black and white

happy ishtar

What the hell did I just read

**panntastic** · 04-01-2013, 03:37 AM

Originally Posted by Armykid93

What the hell did I just read

He's blaming the board for a future morphine addiction because he didn't get spoon fed aas advice by us
Shows maturity in huge levels that's for sure.

**Armykid93** · 04-01-2013, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by panntastic

He's blaming the board for a future morphine addiction because he didn't get spoon fed aas advice by us
Shows maturity in huge levels that's for sure.

Lol I got that i'm just not seeing the connection like he did I guess....very strange post

**Granovich** · 04-01-2013, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by nafnlaus

hey, i read all of the comments and i agree with most of it. I am 20 my self and i posted a question here regarding a c.ycle and i got no replies. I get it that you don't like to help idiots who want to get big without thinking about long term effect. But there are few like me that are looking into this, estimating the risk/gain ratio because we want some quality in life. I am asking how to safely use d.rugs that can help with my issues, but the d.rugs them selves are illegal in the country. You can look at this this way - option 1. i can in an informed way increase the odds of good recovery with d.rugs(d.rug free recovery has failed).
option 2. i use the d.rugs with little knowledge and probably mess up. option 3: i don't use anything other than the doctor is willing to give me, the prescribed pain killers and become a morp.hine addict - game over.
i hope you see this isn't all black and white

happy ishtar

WTF was that!!!
i read it 8 times and i still cant understand shit!!!
who brought this guy along!

**Armykid93** · 04-01-2013, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Granovich

WTF was that!!!
i read it 8 times and i still cant understand shit!!!
who brought this guy along!

Lol I thought the same thing brotha.

**evander87** · 04-01-2013, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by m_donnelly

All of the information you'll ever need to run a cycle is on the stickies.

This

**nafnlaus** · 04-01-2013, 04:15 PM

ugh, i can barely post a reply without getting stopped by the spam filter

**nafnlaus** · 04-01-2013, 04:35 PM

kelkel, I think everyone can agree on that cartilage and disc degeneration are real issues, as i said in my comment the a.nabolic m.eds that are used to treat this state are simply illegal in the country and there for i can not get any help from a m.d.

"C.ycling will not help you with your issues" did you even know what issues i was talking about?

mickey, oh am i not looking for quality of life? in my current state i am estimated as a 40% functioning working person. i had to quit both my jobs and it looks like i am not finishing school either, is that real enough for you? There is no quick fix for me, 15 months i have been resting because of the d. disc and after doing some very light exercises i am back on beginning point because it apparently was too much.

Regarding the endo system, yes i know this could have severe consiquences, but i am also in a severe state to begin with.

panntastic, i am not blaming anyone for anything but according to some of you, you don't help because it can cause harm. but it could reduce harm in my case. I dont have any good options, so why not help making this option a little safer? And if you would have read my thread you would have seen that i am not asking for anything spoon fed, i asked about opinions on appropriate dosge of cl0md for an a.navar c.ycle close to t.heraputical dosg3.

lunk&patrick, i am a former national champion weightlifter and current record holder in my category, is that enough qualification to get some opinions?

the dots and 3s here and there are because of the spam filter. sorry for typing errors, english is my fourth language...

**Sfla80** · 04-01-2013, 04:48 PM

Wondering, did the op finally get banned? He hasn't even replied.

I believe he was already brewing and everything.

**Myers** · 04-01-2013, 04:57 PM

Lame thread with a lame OP.
Around here age when you become adult is 18,i see people all around me cycling.
but i don't give a f**k about it,yes TBH i am obsessed by the wonders of AAS on the certain days,still I'M NOT GONNA DO A CYCLE.
So why u would ask?
Because:
1) Studying biology at university,i learned a lot about endocrine system,hormones etc..(It's even worse when you got the knowledge and obsession, you wanna do it but you know how bad it's gonna be - so i'm gonna hold out for a while).
2)I gave a lot of effort into my diet, STILL my parents don't have enough money to support it as good as i would like(so i have to work my ass of at university and hope i will have money one day- imagine that, i have to hope i will have money for a damn diet,not to talk about ass lol..!)
3)I do have a lot of genetic potential ( dad was a pro. weightlifter) so i will stick to it, and hope it will work out for me along with a lot of work in gym and solid diet.
4)TRT/HRT doesn't even exist in a country where I am from. We are like 20 years behind every normal country. So here it's like..if you f**k it up,you know you're F**ked(i guess it's survival of the fittest here lol,natural selection rulle*). So why would i risk a cycle if i know i might spend the rest of my life feeling crappy,exhausted,depressed etc..

Just my opinion. My situation is probably harder than yours,I hope it will help you reali*e that some people go trough much worse than you do at the similar age,but still think clearly.

**MuscleInk** · 04-01-2013, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Myers

Lame thread with a lame OP.
Around here age when you become adult is 18,i see people all around me cycling.
but i don't give a f**k about it,yes TBH i am obsessed by the wonders of AAS on the certain days,still I'M NOT GONNA DO A CYCLE.
So why u would ask?
Because:
1) Studying biology at university,i learned a lot about endocrine system,hormones etc..(It's even worse when you got the knowledge and obsession, you wanna do it but you know how bad it's gonna be - so i'm gonna hold out for a while).
2)I gave a lot of effort into my diet, STILL my parents don't have enough money to support it as good as i would like(so i have to work my ass of at university and hope i will have money one day- imagine that, i have to hope i will have money for a damn diet,not to talk about ass lol..!)
3)I do have a lot of genetic potential ( dad was a pro. weightlifter) so i will stick to it, and hope it will work out for me along with a lot of work in gym and solid diet.
4)TRT/HRT doesn't even exist in a country where I am from. We are like 20 years behind every normal country. So here it's like..if you f**k it up,you know you're F**ked(i guess it's survival of the fittest here lol,natural selection rulle*). So why would i risk a cycle if i know i might spend the rest of my life feeling crappy,exhausted,depressed etc..

Just my opinion. My situation is probably harder than yours,I hope it will help you reali*e that some people go trough much worse than you do at the similar age,but still think clearly.

Myers,

Good post and congrats for thinking the decision through. It shows maturity and intelligence on your part and I hope you continue along your current path.

Sounds like you have your hands full! I completed 5 degrees in University and at one point was working three jobs to support myself and avoid student debt. It was frustrating and I was miserable often because I was working my ass off 7 days a week with no time for fun or a social life. Sometimes its hard to see that light at the end of the tunnel, but if you persevere and discipline yourself, the hard work will pay off and you'll be a better person for it.

MuscleInk

**kelkel** · 04-01-2013, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by nafnlaus

kelkel, I think everyone can agree on that cartilage and disc degeneration are real issues, as i said in my comment the a.nabolic m.eds that are used to treat this state are simply illegal in the country and there for i can not get any help from a m.d.

"C.ycling will not help you with your issues" did you even know what issues i was talking about?Don't have to. The term cycling refers to supraphysiologic levels. Medicinal treatment with certain anabolics at appropriate levels I understand but there's always a risk/reward as you know.

mickey, oh am i not looking for quality of life? in my current state i am estimated as a 40% functioning working person. i had to quit both my jobs and it looks like i am not finishing school either, is that real enough for you? There is no quick fix for me, 15 months i have been resting because of the d. disc and after doing some very light exercises i am back on beginning point because it apparently was too much.

Regarding the endo system, yes i know this could have severe consiquences, but i am also in a severe state to begin with.

panntastic, i am not blaming anyone for anything but according to some of you, you don't help because it can cause harm. but it could reduce harm in my case. I dont have any good options, so why not help making this option a little safer? And if you would have read my thread you would have seen that i am not asking for anything spoon fed, i asked about opinions on appropriate dosge of cl0md for an a.navar c.ycle close to t.heraputical dosg3.

lunk&patrick, i am a former national champion weightlifter and current record holder in my category, is that enough qualification to get some opinions?

the dots and 3s here and there are because of the spam filter. sorry for typing errors, english is my fourth language...

Op, people responded based on how we perceived the wording of your post, that's all. Now that you say english is your fourth language I/we can understand how easily it was misconstrued. Take a look at TB-500. It's a peptide that many here swear by to help with rehabilitation, joint pain, etc. I believe one of the members trials with it were just made into a sticky thread so check it out.

Hopefully you can get the help you need. Let us know, especially if you try the TB-500.

And welcome to the site, btw!

**kelkel** · 04-01-2013, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

Myers,

Good post and congrats for thinking the decision through. It shows maturity and intelligence on your part and I hope you continue along your current path.

Sounds like you have your hands full! I completed 5 degrees in University and at one point was working three jobs to support myself and avoid student debt. It was frustrating and I was miserable often because I was working my ass off 7 days a week with no time for fun or a social life. Sometimes its hard to see that light at the end of the tunnel, but if you persevere and discipline yourself, the hard work will pay off and you'll be a better person for it.

MuscleInk

So what's changed?

**MuscleInk** · 04-01-2013, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

So what's changed?

Older, wiser, more miserable! Lol

MuscleInk

**MickeyKnox** · 04-01-2013, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by nafnlaus

kelkel, I think everyone can agree on that cartilage and disc degeneration are real issues, as i said in my comment the a.nabolic m.eds that are used to treat this state are simply illegal in the country and there for i can not get any help from a m.d.

"C.ycling will not help you with your issues" did you even know what issues i was talking about?

mickey, oh am i not looking for quality of life? in my current state i am estimated as a 40% functioning working person. i had to quit both my jobs and it looks like i am not finishing school either, is that real enough for you? There is no quick fix for me, 15 months i have been resting because of the d. disc and after doing some very light exercises i am back on beginning point because it apparently was too much.

Regarding the endo system, yes i know this could have severe consiquences, but i am also in a severe state to begin with.

panntastic, i am not blaming anyone for anything but according to some of you, you don't help because it can cause harm. but it could reduce harm in my case. I dont have any good options, so why not help making this option a little safer? And if you would have read my thread you would have seen that i am not asking for anything spoon fed, i asked about opinions on appropriate dosge of cl0md for an a.navar c.ycle close to t.heraputical dosg3.

lunk&patrick, i am a former national champion weightlifter and current record holder in my category, is that enough qualification to get some opinions?

the dots and 3s here and there are because of the spam filter. sorry for typing errors, english is my fourth language...

As Kel indicated your recent response does shed some light onto this issue.

However, i raise you two herniated discs, and two microdiscectomys 2 years apart. But im the biggest and strongest ive even been in my life. And these results are not without complications. These last 6 wks have been awful. Very little gym time and eating anything in sight. Thankfully im not 40% disabled though, im classed medically as 25%.

What are your "issues"? im still not clear.

**Rwy** · 04-01-2013, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by FONZY007

If I was you, I would steep back and think...

Now for real life experience!!!

I was 20 years old when first cycle, it was deca only!! Lol

I did numerous cycles and stopped at 25. When I was 26 I started to feel fatigued..

By 27 was on trt and then I didn't get it dialed in till I was 30..

Not fun walking around fatigued all the time no energy to do anything!'

Very similar to me. Except I was dbol only, anadrol only and then Decca only. I mean can you seriosuly beat the stupidity of all that before the age of 23 lol

I started having issues with banging girls around 27 and the only time I was interested was when I was on drugs which lead me to do drugs more often

**songdog** · 04-02-2013, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by nafnlaus

hey, i read all of the comments and i agree with most of it. I am 20 my self and i posted a question here regarding a c.ycle and i got no replies. I get it that you don't like to help idiots who want to get big without thinking about long term effect. But there are few like me that are looking into this, estimating the risk/gain ratio because we want some quality in life. I am asking how to safely use d.rugs that can help with my issues, but the d.rugs them selves are illegal in the country. You can look at this this way - option 1. i can in an informed way increase the odds of good recovery with d.rugs(d.rug free recovery has failed).
option 2. i use the d.rugs with little knowledge and probably mess up. option 3: i don't use anything other than the doctor is willing to give me, the prescribed pain killers and become a morp.hine addict - game over.
i hope you see this isn't all black and white

happy ishtar

I will put this in laymans terms! THERE IS NO SAFE WAY!!!

**nafnlaus** · 04-02-2013, 02:43 PM

kelkel, ok i see now that my original comment wasn't that clear, i thought you had looked at my thread before replying. I have heard of that Tb thing, but there is an issue with getting it. There is good scientific data on using IGF to treat d.disc, so i was going to use hG.H but there seems to be nothing left in the country after the last BB and fitness competition. IGF is less likely to be found and i think there are diminishing odds to find Tb. All of the mentioned substances have hyperplasic healing properties related to the IGF.

After some research, oxan.drolone seems to be the best choice in terms of availability of legitimate stuff, healing properties and least side effects compared to being a steroid .

and thanks for the welcome

mickey, yes sorry for the misunderstanding. I have a second degree degeneration which is a herniation, the disc has now ruptured twice and i am about to see brain&neural surgeon. The surgeon is not going to want to operate, also i dont want to get the surgery so that is just to formally address this problem to the health care system. I will avoid all surgeries unless i win the lottery and then i will get a full disc replacement which costs up from 300.000$.

I know it is possible to achieve something after herniations, my friend did a 175kg Clean and jerk after one.

"What are your "issues"? im still not clear." i was just talking about the cartilage and disc issues, but you can add some sinew problems and couple of badly healed bone fractures to that

So i bind some hopes with oxan.drolone since it can reduce chronic pain, strengthen my core muscles without straining the disc and the hyperplasic effect could populate the few repair cells that the disc has to begin with.

songdog, i know there is no safe way, but it can be done safer with knowledge than without it. Since no md. will help with this, thi is the place i go to get information and opinions.

i hope this doesnt count as hijacking the thread since OP hasn't said anything