Exemestane-The Underdosed AI

[Krb367]

Bump.

Anyone else using this (12.5x2 ed) protocol with supporting bw?

[DontTaseMeBro]

Yes. I'm on 500mg test-e / week.

1 week before cycle, test free test was 15.6pg/mL and estradiol was 27pg/mL. At 6 weeks, free test was >50pg/mL and estradiol was 45pg/mL.

normal range for estradiol is 3-70pg/mL. I would say the recommended dosage was keeping it in check without killing estrogen altogether. I feel fine and no sides.

[Krb367]

Yes. I'm on 500mg test-e / week.

1 week before cycle, test free test was 15.6pg/mL and estradiol was 27pg/mL. At 6 weeks, free test was >50pg/mL and estradiol was 45pg/mL.

normal range for estradiol is 3-70pg/mL. I would say the recommended dosage was keeping it in check without killing estrogen altogether. I feel fine and no sides.

Nice.

I just had pre bw done Monday, and the cycle has now been pushed back again since I'm going to need more exemestane! Wish I would have came across this post sooner.. I originally had planned for 12.5 EOD

[DontTaseMeBro]

Nice.

I just had pre bw done Monday, and the cycle has now been pushed back again since I'm going to need more exemestane! Wish I would have came across this post sooner.. I originally had planned for 12.5 EOD

Good call. Never start your research until you have ALL your sh!t in place. You never know when someone will be out of product, shipping screws up, etc.

I find that the sponsor's product is g2g; and their service is first rate.

I really think that Jimmy hit the nail on the head at 12.5 twice a day; but we are all different. I may bump mine up very slightly since my estrogen was up a little bit.

Good luck!

[bsterling]

I'm not completely sold on this idea. If exmestane is a suicide inhibitor, and destroys 85% of estro per dose. This percentage might be less in males but even if its 50% that still seems like plenty to me. Especially over time, which this mighty study that all you guys are basing your opinion on doesnt even go over 10 days! You gotta be creating armotase like crazy to need that much of a dose.

Everyone is acting like this is gospel truth over a little 10 day study on guys that weren't even on AAS. This study barley applies to anything we do. There have been a couple guys chime in and said that they did well with 25 ED. Well I did great with 12.5 EOD zero estro sides libido was jacked through the roof especially the last 2 weeks of my 12 week cycle. I wish more people would post bloods. I would have them done but It'll cost me around 600 bucks to have pre, during, and post work done. I am going to opt just for the during I guess. wish it didn't cost 200$ bones per blood test where I am in the country.

Anyway, where's Jimmy's follow up blood work to this post? He never came through with it as far as I'm concerned the jury is still out. Just cuz one guy thought he figured out something with some data he used that doesn't even support his hypothesis.... Not solid IMO.

[jimmyinkedup]

I'm not completely sold on this idea. If exmestane is a suicide inhibitor, and destroys 85% of estro per dose. This percentage might be less in males but even if its 50% that still seems like plenty to me. Especially over time, which this mighty study that all you guys are basing your opinion on doesnt even go over 10 days! You gotta be creating armotase like crazy to need that much of a dose.

Everyone is acting like this is gospel truth over a little 10 day study on guys that weren't even on AAS. This study barley applies to anything we do. There have been a couple guys chime in and said that they did well with 25 ED. Well I did great with 12.5 EOD zero estro sides libido was jacked through the rough especially the last 2 weeks of my 12 week cycle. I wish more people would post bloods. I would have them done but It'll cost me around 600 bucks to have pre, during, and post work done. I am going to opt just for the during I guess. wish it didn't cost 200$ bones per blood test where I am in the country.

Anyway, where's Jimmy's follow up blood work to this post? He never came through with it as far as I'm concerned the jury is still out. Just cuz one guy thought he figured out something with some data he used that doesn't even support his hypothesis.... Not solid IMO.

The data your quoting is its effects in women, not men. The effects in men is greaty reduced. This is a proven fact. Also I just had on cycle blood work done within the last 3 weeks and dosing using this protocol my e2 was within the clinical range,just a tad higher than I would like. This is posted in my on cycle log. Also as you see members other than me are getting blood work done and finding the protocol is right on the money.
That being said you certainly do not have to buy into it, however since your premise for this is based off of inaccurate data based on effects in women, not men, when stane is proven less effective in males plus the fact that you have zero blood work to support your contention and there are several real world examples from people here with on cycle blood work showing it works, Id say out of the 2 theories your speculation using inaccurate data and no blood work is much less solid than mine, which is supported by facts, accurate data, and blood work not only on me but provided by others on cycle.
If you dont believe it, dont follow it. However dont misrepresent data to refute it or offer no data of your own to support your theory.

[Black]

I don't have current bloods (on cycle), but I have pre-cycle/TRT blood work.

At 200mg Test a week (my TRT dose is normally 140mg a week, however, after the completion of a Tren cycle several months ago, I upped my TRT dose to 200mg because the Tren had kicked my libido in the dirt), I was taking 12.5mg of Aromasin ED.

Testosterone , Serum 1462 (Range 348-1197 ng/dL)
-This is obviously too high for TRT and was taken right as my libido was coming back. After the test, I dropped back to 140mg. Interesting to note though, that when I first started TRT, my clinic had me on 300mg of test a week and my Total T was only 1100. Estrogen was an issue then.

Estradiol 42.2 (Range 7.6-42.6 pg/mL)
-In range, but a little higher than I would like. I wasn't having any estrogen related sides at the time, except for holding some extra water.

Right now, on cycle (700mg Test, 700mg NPP) I am taking 30 drops of Aromasin once a day (20 drops = 1ml). So 25mg/ml @ 30 drops is 37.5mg. I started out by taking 25mg ED and noticed some excess water retention, a couple pimples (nothing major, but its always been a sign of higher estrogen in the past). Libido was fine and erections were there. So due to the sides, I upped the dose to 37.5mg ED and since then, pimples have ceased, much less water retention and I pretty much wake up with a raging boner every morning like I'm 15 again.

Also, I did come across a study that showed very little increase in effects at doses over 25mg. It compared a 25mg dose and a 50mg dose. I will be getting some bloodwork soon, as last time I tried a new set of labs that were cheaper, but left a few things out that I'd like to have. As far as that, I do feel better at my current dosing (it wasn't terrible before as I have crashed my e2 before and also have had it considerably out of range, so I'm familiar with how it feels).

[ANIMAL]

I'm on 18mg stane ED and it works for me. I've done 25mg along with nolvadex to get rid of a gyno lump but at that dose it made me lethargic, unmotivated and just blah. I did that for 6 days, the lump went away and I backed down to 18mg feeling perfect.

Everyone is different and have different sensitivity to estrogen conversion. I think the data people provide is a good template but without your own bloodwork or feeling you can't just rely on others words. Which is a big reason why your few first cycle should be just test only to understand how your body works and reacts.

[bsterling]

In my post I did say it may be less in males. Id quote it and all that but I'm on my tablet.

Your right, I don't have empirical data to argue anything. I just find it bizarre that there isn't more critical thinking going on. You have a very high regard in the eyes of the people on this board and am surprised how quickly everyone jumped on board. I'm going to have to invest some money in blood work and follow up on this.

Thanks for the response.

[jimmyinkedup]

In my post I did say it may be less in males. Id quote it and all that but I'm on my tablet.

Your right, I don't have empirical data to argue anything. I just find it bizarre that there isn't more critical thinking going on. You have a very high regard in the eyes of the people on this board and am surprised how quickly everyone jumped on board. I'm going to have to invest some money in blood work and follow up on this.

Thanks for the response.

Im all for debate and discussion. Perhaps that is the case because they know that I have been here for years and am not quick to snap to judgment hastily and without foundation or experience to back the theories or ideas I put out there. The fact that I have been in this game for 20 years provably doesn't hurt either.
We are all different and all respond slightly different, however in this case I noticed a trend personally and with others across several boards, researched it, tried it personally, backed it with blood work (my own and others). It has since proven accurate with numerous accounts and supporting blood work. I really wish there was a long term study published in males, taking stane, using AAS at on cycle doses however we both know that isnt going to happen. The supporting data i used here is often, for better or worse, the most concrete foundation to formulate correct protocols we can find in this game.
The fact is stane is not the super potent ai in males that it was initially put out there to be. On paper it should be much more potent that adex, the reality is, and it has been proven time and time again, it just isnt.

[ANIMAL]

I'm having bloodwork done on Saturday, having been at a dose of 18mg/day for 4 consecutive days now, taking 500mg test/week I'm interested to see what my e2 will be.

Edit: I'm on week 10 of my cycle. Started cycle at 12.5mg/day and have going up as I felt symptons.

After reading your first post stating 25mg/day was ideal but at that dose I feel like shit I'm wondering if that's bringing my e2 levels too low which is causing the side effects I'm experiencing.

[Docd187123]

Im all for debate and discussion. Perhaps that is the case because they know that I have been here for years and am not quick to snap to judgment hastily and without foundation or experience to back the theories or ideas I put out there. The fact that I have been in this game for 20 years provably doesn't hurt either.
We are all different and all respond slightly different, however in this case I noticed a trend personally and with others across several boards, researched it, tried it personally, backed it with blood work (my own and others). It has since proven accurate with numerous accounts and supporting blood work. I really wish there was a long term study published in males, taking stane, using AAS at on cycle doses however we both know that isnt going to happen. The supporting data i used here is often, for better or worse, the most concrete foundation to formulate correct protocols we can find in this game.
The fact is stane is not the super potent ai in males that it was initially put out there to be. On paper it should be much more potent that adex, the reality is, and it has been proven time and time again, it just isnt.

I happen to agree with you but only bc you have a badass avi

[Juced_porkchop]

I'm not completely sold on this idea. If exmestane is a suicide inhibitor, and destroys 85% of estro per dose. This percentage might be less in males but even if its 50% that still seems like plenty to me. Especially over time, which this mighty study that all you guys are basing your opinion on doesnt even go over 10 days! You gotta be creating armotase like crazy to need that much of a dose.

Everyone is acting like this is gospel truth over a little 10 day study on guys that weren't even on AAS. This study barley applies to anything we do. There have been a couple guys chime in and said that they did well with 25 ED. Well I did great with 12.5 EOD zero estro sides libido was jacked through the roof especially the last 2 weeks of my 12 week cycle. I wish more people would post bloods. I would have them done but It'll cost me around 600 bucks to have pre, during, and post work done. I am going to opt just for the during I guess. wish it didn't cost 200$ bones per blood test where I am in the country.

Anyway, where's Jimmy's follow up blood work to this post? He never came through with it as far as I'm concerned the jury is still out. Just cuz one guy thought he figured out something with some data he used that doesn't even support his hypothesis.... Not solid IMO.

You are not understanding the point that the studies were on women and itdoesnt relate the same way, some dont even use an 'ai and think they are fine, you need blood work. but trust me 25-50mg ed-eod is where it is at for males. i like letro more anyway : - P

[DontTaseMeBro]

Good discussion.

Jimmy's research and reasoning made sense to me, so I gave it a try. The first week to ten days of my cycle, I felt a little lethargic. I cut back for a week and then went back up to 12.5 twice a day. At 6 weeks, my estrogen was up but still well within range. I conclude that for me, the recommended dosage is enough to control estrogen without killing it (and the associated problems) while on 500mg test-e per week.

The only real way to figure it out is to start with the recommendation, adjust based on how you feel, and confirm with blood work. I'm sure that the amount and type of AAS being used, the differences in blood chemistry, bodyfat and the rate at which one converts testosterone to estrogen all come into play.

[JinNtonic]

Thank you Jimmy. I cant wait to try this theory out.

[jimmyinkedup]

I'm having bloodwork done on Saturday, having been at a dose of 18mg/day for 4 consecutive days now, taking 500mg test/week I'm interested to see what my e2 will be.

Edit: I'm on week 10 of my cycle. Started cycle at 12.5mg/day and have going up as I felt symptons.

After reading your first post stating 25mg/day was ideal but at that dose I feel like shit I'm wondering if that's bringing my e2 levels too low which is causing the side effects I'm experiencing.

Maybe for you somewhere right in between is perfect. The BW will tell the tale

[ANIMAL]

Jimmy, what starting (mg) dose do you find to work best with a TRT regiment?

[jimmyinkedup]

Well when I was cruising at 225test and 150deca/week I was taking 12.5 and my e2 was in the 25 neighborhood....
Thats my best gauge for trt dosing

[lovbyts]

Good to see this is still going. I think it was over 1yr ago, maybe 1 1/2 when on cycle I was taking 12.5 ED and my E2 was through the roof, 300 range. I switched to adex and it seemed to work better for me I think although I did not retest during cycle.

[bobdurden]

Hey guys, just thought I'd contribute a bit here. BW was taken 35 days into cycle. 300mg Test E E3D. Aromasin 5mg in the AM and 5mg before bed. Both doses are taken with coconut oil.

Pre Cycle:


Intra-Cycle

[clarky.]

Your e2 looks good in the middle ish.

[Rrexy]

So Bob, you were only using 5 mg 2x / day?

[bobdurden]

So Bob, you were only using 5 mg 2x / day?

Yes, that is correct. Interestingly enough my last cycle I dosed 10mg once per day and had bouts with bloat and acne. My E2 was in the high 40s so still well within range but the sides were much more noticeable. My previous cycle was 500mg of Test E per week.

[Machdiesel]

I'm not completely sold on this idea. If exmestane is a suicide inhibitor, and destroys 85% of estro per dose. This percentage might be less in males but even if its 50% that still seems like plenty to me. Especially over time, which this mighty study that all you guys are basing your opinion on doesnt even go over 10 days! You gotta be creating armotase like crazy to need that much of a dose.



Everyone is acting like this is gospel truth over a little 10 day study on guys that weren't even on AAS. This study barley applies to anything we do. There have been a couple guys chime in and said that they did well with 25 ED. Well I did great with 12.5 EOD zero estro sides libido was jacked through the roof especially the last 2 weeks of my 12 week cycle. I wish more people would post bloods. I would have them done but It'll cost me around 600 bucks to have pre, during, and post work done. I am going to opt just for the during I guess. wish it didn't cost 200$ bones per blood test where I am in the country.

Anyway, where's Jimmy's follow up blood work to this post? He never came through with it as far as I'm concerned the jury is still out. Just cuz one guy thought he figured out something with some data he used that doesn't even support his hypothesis.... Not solid IMO.

I'm on trt. At 120mg a week of test my e2 was 51 and total test was 650. I upped my dose to 140mg a week and got prescribed exemestane. At 6.25 mg a day my nips still had some sensativity. At 12.5 a day I felt good but sex drive was slightly down. I ended on 12.5 mg on injection days and 6.25 on Otner days. Nips feel fine and sex drive is good. Will have bloods in a few weeks

[zeeibi]

bumps...any more bloodworkers?

[Iron Mind]

Great read, I'll post my results if I start my test-only cycle. Not sure what dose to start with 12,5mg or 25mg ED with a 500mg/week test-e.

But I'll let you guys knows when I run the cycle

[zeeibi]

Heres some blood work done, came to bump this thread as i believe it has very valuable info!
Running 550mg test E p/w with 50mg anavar .
Aromasin (ar-r brand) at 0.3ml 2x a day, which is approx 15mg ED.


Results are:

Test 100.0 nmol/L
free test 3351 pmol/L
SHBG 12 nmol/L
Oestradiol 72pmol/L ( <160 is range)


Is my Oest too low, do i want to drop the dose abit or am I in the sweet spot? Would appreciate some advice thx

[Mr.BB]

Heres some blood work done, came to bump this thread as i believe it has very valuable info!
Running 550mg test E p/w with 50mg anavar .
Aromasin (ar-r brand) at 0.3ml 2x a day, which is approx 15mg ED.


Results are:

Test 100.0 nmol/L
free test 3351 pmol/L
SHBG 12 nmol/L
Oestradiol 72pmol/L ( <160 is range)


Is my Oest too low, do i want to drop the dose abit or am I in the sweet spot? Would appreciate some advice thx

How much was your E2 pre cycle?

[zeeibi]

How much was your E2 pre cycle?

not sure of my pre cycle e2 levels, last cycle when i was using adex it was 127 pmol/L.

I have noticed a hard lump under right nipple, isnt painful and nipple isnt sensitive or anything but im abit worried about it..

Im start of week 10 now in my cycle should I start my nolva now?

[lovbyts]

not sure of my pre cycle e2 levels, last cycle when i was using adex it was 127 pmol/L.

I have noticed a hard lump under right nipple, isnt painful and nipple isnt sensitive or anything but im abit worried about it..

Im start of week 10 now in my cycle should I start my nolva now?

Are you sure the lump was not there before? We do have glands and things in there that if you have not felt for it before and you are sure it was not it may have been all along but you didnt notice until now.

I think if you dont have any other signs of gyno I would just wait until normal PCT time.

[zeeibi]

to be honest it was there last cycle too, ive forgotten if i checked on it after last cycle when i was off..shoulda really paid more attention.

im gna hold back on the nolva and get an ultrasound done jst to be sure on what it really is, its not directly behind the nipple either its kinda above it to the right so im bit sus on it

[jimmyinkedup]

to be honest it was there last cycle too, ive forgotten if i checked on it after last cycle when i was off..shoulda really paid more attention.

im gna hold back on the nolva and get an ultrasound done jst to be sure on what it really is, its not directly behind the nipple either its kinda above it to the right so im bit sus on it

Keep us posted on US results if you dont mind....

[zeeibi]

for sure, should know within next few days

[zeeibi]

Still wondering if its potentially even possible for gyno to occur when using an AI and having estrogen well within normal ranges :\ ??

[lovbyts]

Still wondering if its potentially even possible for gyno to occur when using an AI and having estrogen well within normal ranges :\ ??

Estrogen, Prolactin, Progesterone Management + Gynecomastia Prevention & Reversal

Prolactin in Men: Explanation and Purpose

First thing... there is no such thing as "prolactin-induced" gynecomastia . I've heard this one too many times and later in this segment you will understand why. Now, prolactin is another sex hormone and is secreted by the pituitary gland in your brain. Although it's found in both males and females, it's main purpose is for milk production for females. The fact is, males have no use for prolactin that we know of today. Why, God, why?? Anyway, while low levels are not harmful, high levels certainly are. So let's take a look at the concerns with higher than normal prolactin levels in men...

Effects of High Prolactin Levels in Men:

- Adverse Testicular Interference
- Lowers natural testosterone
- Lower sperm count (to infertility levels)
- long term elevation can cause erectile dysfunction (sometimes short term)
- Low Libido
- Breast tenderness
- Male lactation
- Low ejaculate volume

[zeeibi]

so my current bloodwork for estrogen is useless/irrelevant?

Gettin the US tomorrow to see whats really going on..if its gyno do i continue cycle (last 3 weeks left) while taking nolva as recomended in that thread til end of pct?

[zeeibi]

So results of ultrasound show that i have mild gyno only on the right nipple.
I started taking nolva 40mg for the past week and switching over to 20mg as of today and running it til i finish cycle (im in week 11 of 12 right now). Really annoyed but nothing i can do now except hope that the nolva can reverse it.
Hard to tell if it was caused from this cycle or from previous one were i stopped my AI for a few weeks but it really doesnt change much so im just accepting it as a side effect and hoping for the best


When i start up pct should i up nolva dose from 20mg to 40mg for first two weeks of the PCT or do i jst run it at 20mg because ive been on it already for a month prior to starting pct?

[mikegilbert1986]

So results of ultrasound show that i have mild gyno only on the right nipple. I started taking nolva 40mg for the past week and switching over to 20mg as of today and running it til i finish cycle (im in week 11 of 12 right now). Really annoyed but nothing i can do now except hope that the nolva can reverse it. Hard to tell if it was caused from this cycle or from previous one were i stopped my AI for a few weeks but it really doesnt change much so im just accepting it as a side effect and hoping for the best When i start up pct should i up nolva dose from 20mg to 40mg for first two weeks of the PCT or do i jst run it at 20mg because ive been on it already for a month prior to starting pct?

i have flat button like lumps under mine from past cycles just try to control it don't use shit thats going to aggravate it. nothing you can do but surgery, if there small enough they can go un noticed. your not the only one there a high percent of men who use gear and not that have this issue man.

[zeeibi]

i have flat button like lumps under mine from past cycles just try to control it don't use shit thats going to aggravate it. nothing you can do but surgery, if there small enough they can go un noticed. your not the only one there a high percent of men who use gear and not that have this issue man.

yea u cant really notice mine at all its really mild and wanna keep it that way.

So in future cycles should i be taking nolva thruout? or how else do i control it ?

[jimmyinkedup]

yea u cant really notice mine at all its really mild and wanna keep it that way.
So in future cycles should i be taking nolva thruout? or how else do i control it ?

When i start up pct should i up nolva dose from 20mg to 40mg for first two weeks of the PCT or do i jst run it at 20mg because ive been on it already for a month prior to starting pct?

I would take nolva or raloxifene alongside your ai.
As far as your pct just keep tamox at 20 imo.
Thanks for reporting back the findings man. Since your gyno is small and seemingly relatively new you may want to try off cycle reversal attempt using raloxifene. If anything would work its ralox but if there is a fibrous mass even it may not reverse it.