Ive been feeling like shit.. Why??

[marcus300]

COME OFF CYCLE ALTOGETHER, your body is telling you to ive been there and done it, check your rbc immediately and forget the mental shite whats going around in your body otherwise the end result is your going to be using 2g a week to feel normal but with a boat load of sides. I ended up in hospital for staying on to long with my rbc sky high....fuk the size look after your health

[lovbyts]

Ive known a few people and have read about a lot more who try cruising at 300mg week for extended length of times and every one of them eventually start feeling like crap and have thyroid issues. It typically takes 4-6 months to clear up after coming off.

As said a cruise is trt dose such as 75mg - 150mg week.

[ironbeck]

I've already been loosing some strength "no loss in muscle or weight yet" but my energy and overall well being is in the garbage at 300mg test a week.... I could drop down to 200 but if I'm feeling like shit now how would taking even less test make me feel any better??? I don't want to loose too much during this cruise so what would you recommend I do or take for the next 4-6 wks??

This advise may seem a little out of the norm, but I would try only going to gym 1-2x a week, yes once a week and don't train real hard just about 65% of the max weight you usually use, and just let your body rest with your 300mg a week try this for 2 WEEKS!!! and it will temporarily get you back into the "swing" of things.

[marcus300]

This advise may seem a little out of the norm, but I would try only going to gym 1-2x a week, yes once a week and don't train real hard just about 65% of the max weight you usually use, and just let your body rest with your 300mg a week try this for 2 WEEKS!!! and it will temporarily get you back into the "swing" of things.

300mgs per week isn't off cycle, he cant continually carry on cycling, he needs to lower it to 100mgs-125mgs or come off completely and do pct. His body needs a rest and he seriously needs to check his rbc

[ironbeck]

300mgs per week isn't off cycle, he cant continually carry on cycling, he needs to lower it to 100mgs-125mgs or come off completely and do pct. His body needs a rest and he seriously needs to check his rbc

I agree marcus, was just giving him a "temporary" bandaid which may make him feel better.

[human project]

Ok so 175mg test a week for how long??? Can I add proviron ?? What about hcg dose?? I'm very suspect able to estrogen sides from hcg.. What ai?? Should I take a pct; if so of what?? Clomid makes me want to put a gun in my mouth.... Literally makes me crazy depressed... but should I take Nolva..?? I'm currently taking 6ius of hgh a day... Should i increase hgh to keep from loosing too much muscle?? Probably going to take insulin more often to help muscle wasting or at least help with weight gain.... Anything else or could someone "Marcus" set me up a way to preserve muscle tissue or maybe even bulk "off cycle"??? Also how long do I need to stay off?? I want to compete as soon as possible.... Preferably in 6 months but i need to fix the way I feel ASAP: I literally can't take it anymore I'm going insane

[Lunk1]

HP...come off completly, run a Nolva PCT and stay off untl BW shows you back to normal levels (if you can get there still).

[human project]

HP...come off completly, run a Nolva PCT and stay off untl BW shows you back to normal levels (if you can get there still).

No way..... I would literally loose 20-30lbs without a doubt.... I will be back on a stage in at very least 10 months and hopefully be back on in 6.... If I came off completely and then went back on just for mg contest prep my body would be all over the place... Not to mention If i can't handle the depression at 300mg a week I would jump off a cliff if I were to come completely off..... I literally barely have the energy to get out of bed in the morning let alone workout and I'm the type of person who has not taken more then two weeks off the gym since I walked into high school

[Lunk1]

No way..... I would literally loose 20-30lbs without a doubt.... I will be back on a stage in at very least 10 months and hopefully be back on in 6.... If I came off completely and then went back on just for mg contest prep my body would be all over the place... Not to mention If i can't handle the depression at 300mg a week I would jump off a cliff if I were to come completely off..... I literally barely have the energy to get out of bed in the morning let alone workout and I'm the type of person who has not taken more then two weeks off the gym since I walked into high school

I hope this "abuse" doesnt cost you more than you are willing to pay in the long run. I would take my health over 20 lbs of muscle any day

[tdoe11]

How long have you been on?

[human project]

How long have you been on?

I've come off three times in two years and every time I loose such an unbelievable amount of muscle I've decided to never do so again unless someone I fully trust can show me a way that I won't loose 20lbs.... I hope to turn pro before I turn 30 and I cannot afford to loose 20-30lbs of solid muscle. I wouldn't even make it back on stage next year

[Sgt. Hartman]

Man I went through the exact same thing a while back. Had been cruising at 300mg test between cycles for too long. Miserable is an understatement as to how I felt. My e was fine my RBC and hematocrit were slightly elevated but nothing to freak out about. I just needed a break and my body was letting me know about it in a bad way.

I came off everything except for 100mg test per week as pct was not an option for me. A week went by and I still felt like dog shit and thought about going back on but after another week started feeling better than I remembered was possible. Sometimes the best solution is to take a minimal type approach and put as few drugs in your body as possible instead of constantly adding more to offset the sides of the others.

[chi]

human project i hope you are able to get back to feeling yourself soon. Nothing makes you value your health and well being then not feeling well and I when I don't feel well my whole world is upside down.

[human project]

human project i hope you are able to get back to feeling yourself soon. Nothing makes you value your health and well being then not feeling well and I when I don't feel well my whole world is upside down.

I know this feeling is miserable

[Lunk1]

I know this feeling is miserable

I had to do the same think man. I have been off now for over 3 weeks and am feeling much better. It's not worth looking good if you feel like dog shyt doing it

[snowblowjoe]

You never look good anyway Lunk

[panntastic]

You never look good anyway Lunk

How's that water weight doing?

[snowblowjoe]

Actually excellent, thanks for asking

[AlinSR]

I cruise on 500mg test

[human project]

I cruise on 500mg test

See so many people tell me this.... My coach even goes as far as telling me I need 500-600 mg deca and 350mg test..... All in all I've taken Marcus advice before my nutritionist, trainer, and coach on many occasions..... If he would be willing to set me up with a "off cycle" cycle.... Ill keep up dating on my project diet form and post results or losses during this off time.... If anything maybe it will serve as a guide for someone else

[marcus300]

See so many people tell me this.... My coach even goes as far as telling me I need 500-600 mg deca and 350mg test..... All in all I've taken Marcus advice before my nutritionist, trainer, and coach on many occasions..... If he would be willing to set me up with a "off cycle" cycle.... Ill keep up dating on my project diet form and post results or losses during this off time.... If anything maybe it will serve as a guide for someone else

I know how you feel ive been there a few times over the years but you have to put your health first. You can't watch the scales and be governed by each lb you lose or gain you have to listen to your body, its telling you something very important "its had enough and needs a rest". I know what the mental side of losing weight can be like trust me I do I remember being 275lbs and feeling skinny and wouldn't take my top off because I thought I wasn't big enough, but you have to take control and don't let it control you otherwise your going to be very ill and your health will suffer.

I had very thick blood and was hospitalised due to staying on steroids to long and using way to much, I looked around the ward I was on and it was full of old men and I thought to myself wft am I doing here, they said my body would sort itself out within 100days but I may not survive the 100 days so they were going to take blood twice over the next 2 weeks, I thought to myself I was indestructible but inside I was breaking down from all the heavy use and long cycles .

Cruising on 500mgs of test isn't a cruise that's cycling and your body will respond in sides because we can not continually growth if that was possible I would be 500lbs at 6% bf and the inbecile who tells you to cruise on test and deca at those dosages must be on medication. You have a metal block that size is everything and losing a few lbs is going to make you look shite but you have to rest your body to move forward. I am not saying you have a very high RBC but your body needs a rest and you have to try and get back to normal even if that's the cost of a few lbs. Yes your going to lose weight and size but at least you can cycle from this state not using large amounts what will have a negative effect on your health.

The way I see it you got two option either come off completely and go into pct and try and recover your natural test or drop your test down to a normal trt dose of 100-150mgs per week and get your body to stabilize itself. I would also get blood work done asap and make sure you get your RBC checked, I would also drop the intensity at the gym for a bit or take a few more rest days. Try and use food and training to progress and maintain rather than steroids for a bit and on a personal note I really don't know how long you have been on cycle but I would try and recover your natural test and see where you stand unless you have low test then I would drop it right down to 100-150 per week.

You carry on being on cycle it will have a negative effect on your health either now or further down the line. You feel like shite and depressed for a reason so fix the problem and then you can move forward again.

[human project]

[human project]

I gave blood today... They took one pint..... They said if I waited until fri they could take two pints but at this time they could only take one so do I need to go back again and if so when...

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

Right now I'm down to 300mg test a week... Along with 250mcg hcg every 5-7 days "I'm really susceptible to estrogen issues from hcg" also taking 1mg arimidex per day and 50mcg t3.... What do you recommend i take for my cruiz??? I'm already loosing strength and endurance in workouts..... Honestly I can barely even lift weights at all...... In all reality it's getting hard to even get out I bed

I am an old guy on TRT but I didn't see anyone comment one one important post this man made I hate to 2nd guess all you pros but 1 mg of Armidex has put his E2 in the tank that is what my DA Dr. scripted me and 1 mg a day is the dosage for cancer people and I have found in only 8 mths of TRT due to Juice abuse 30 years ago that E2 will kill your drive quicker than anything I have taken and .25 mg EOD is the recommended dose ?

If I am wrong please forgive me but due to my having issues with E2 and a DA Dr. I have had to learn on my own , No disrespect just something that jumped out at me and my issues with staying balanced

[ironbeck]

I believe this to be a very important thread that could hols a wealthful of info and actions, that a serious long time user may encounter. Pls human keep us updated, of course we wish the best for you which ever route you take , but keep us updated.

[human project]

I believe this to be a very important thread that could hols a wealthful of info and actions, that a serious long time user may encounter. Pls human keep us updated, of course we wish the best for you which ever route you take , but keep us updated.

I actually feel a little better today.... Actually thinking about going for a run tonight..... Weird.... Maybe from giving blood or dropomg my arimidex to .5 yesterday and today.....

[human project]

Bump for advice on labs please

[chi]

Bump for advice on labs please

High AST ALT levels are an indication of damaged or diseased liver. Are you on orals right now? If you are you need to discontinue use of them immediately. Frankly Human Project I am surprised you have not commented on what Marcus wrote since he has been down this route before though I know it was for high rbc but nonetheless you neeed to come off your body is telling you too!!!

[frank13]

I actually feel a little better today.... Actually thinking about going for a run tonight..... Weird.... Maybe from giving blood or dropomg my arimidex to .5 yesterday and today.....

what was your rbc i just gave blood it took forever and they almost trend me away because my rbc was almost to high the day after was the first day in a month i didn't feel dizzy at work in the morning so it probably helped

[OnTheSauce]

High AST ALT levels are an indication of damaged or diseased liver. Are you on orals right now? If you are you need to discontinue use of them immediately. Frankly Human Project I am surprised you have not commented on what Marcus wrote since he has been down this route before though I know it was for high rbc but nonetheless you neeed to come off your body is telling you too!!!

They aren't that high. Just working out can throw those numbers off. They are almost in range.

[chi]

They aren't that high. Just working out can throw those numbers off. They are almost in range.

The reason I know about ast and alt levels is my sister had high ast and alt levels which showed up after getting blood work done. It was caused from taking medication that was prescribed to her which also caused her to feel like death and have little to no energy as well as hardly any appetite. I was not aware that ast and alt numbers may be skewed from working out and I was going off of the op's symptoms he was having. I guess it may have not been the best comparison because one could say it was the medication hence the reason why I asked him if he was taking orals.

[OnTheSauce]

Some orals throw those way up high. I've seen in hundreds. How high were your sis levels?

[cj111]

Think of your health buddy, I hope you make the right decision and take Marcus's advice. Best of luck

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

I actually feel a little better today.... Actually thinking about going for a run tonight..... Weird.... Maybe from giving blood or dropomg my arimidex to .5 yesterday and today.....

IMHO .5 per day is stil more than most ppl take from other threads most take no ore than .25 EOD and that was to much for me and I inject only 470 mg of Test and 200 mg of NPP per week ?

[briansvk]

Very good thread (well it is nice to read, what can I expect in some time)... I guess some pause from hard use will be inevitable.. As said numerous times above, I would just drop test to 200mg/week or lower, maybe stop AI at all (don't think it is necessary with test this low) and you should get better.. Blood work did not bring up any issues, so it is probably just body telling it needs a break for few weeks... Hopefully you wont lose much mass..

[havanakid]

Hey Human Project heres whats gonna happen bro and Im telling you from recent personal experience.My situation was somewhat similar to yours so here it is.You got a pint taken out and thats great thats step one.Bring the arimidex to .25 a day and I only saying that because of your sensitivity to estrogen otherwise I would say every other day.Next step bring the test down to NO MORE than 150 mgs weekly and trust me man you are goin to feel a whole lot better.My hematocrit/rbc levels were scary high.I took a whole month off everything except hcg twice a week and a-dex .25 twice a week.Got a pint taken out.Took some natural supplements that I am still taking thanks to Austinites help and man I left the docs office with a clean bill of health .My test level before goin off was 1342 and my weight was 218-220 with about 15-16% bf.After I had the phlebotomy and after a whole month off and yes my drive was down my test levels were at 168...BUT during that whole month I NEVER missed a workout,I rarely missed a meal and my blood pressure was getting better and better and finally at the end of the month bloodwork came back.Hematocrit was at 51,blood pressure was/is great and all just in time for my new planned 8 week cycle of prop/anavar that I started just this week and in case youre wondering my weight after the month of was 222 and 224 today.My avi pic was taken 3 days ago cause the wife really liked my shirt so I was like oh what the hell let me take a classic mirror pic lol.Moral of my story: Taking time off and putting your health first is the very best way to go.Did I feel I would lose gains?Hell yes!!What was my priority though?To keep the mass or to enjoy my daughter my family and my health?The latter was the more important.I lost some strength but I ll get it back.DONT worry so much about the loss of your gains.Youre a warrior and whatever you lose you will get back soon and by at least doing a low dose of test weekly you will retain a lot more than you think.I hope this helps buddy and I wish you the best.Be safe,be smart,and stay healthy and strong.I know you will.Youre the human project after all.

[chi]

Some orals throw those way up high. I've seen in hundreds. How high were your sis levels?

Don't recall but they were not that out of range where it was alarming and cause for panic. The doctor just ordered here to discontinue use of the meds, stay away from taking any other medications, abstain from drinking, etc..