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  1. #1
    markymark909 is offline New Member
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    Question Test and Tren, PCT?

    Have done a few test only cycles (sustanon 500mg/ml a week for 2 months) with success. Looking to add Tren to improve results. I plan on doing a lean bulk in July. I have a nutritionist (who has prepped winning bodybuilders in my area) so diet is on par and I have a good workout program from a trainer to accommodate. I'm currently at 12% bf, looking to get to 9% by end of June, and then step it up for some lean muscle build. All I need is some advice for PCT, just want to bounce some ideas off people here for an 8 week cycle.

    CYCLE:
    Week 1-8 1ml TTE 2x a week (Test Enanthate 250mg/ml and Tren Enanthate 150mg/ml).. They're in the same bottle.

    Week 5-6 HCG 1000iu on day 1, 500iu every 4 days after.

    I don't get sensitive nips or gyno symptoms from test, but I have Letrozole 1.25mg capsules on hand for an emergency if anything starts to happen. I don't want to suppress estrogen during my cycle if I don't need to and I don't want to cause an estrogen rebound. I've never had an issue with it.

    I also plan on doing ECA (24mg E/ 200mg C/ 81mg A) x 3 a day because I like the little boost of energy to push out some extra reps and I don't crash from it. Also, I like the little bit of fat burning potential.

    PCT starts 3 weeks after

    HCG 1000iu on day 1, 500iu every 4 days after
    Nolvadex - 20mg/day for 6 weeks

    On the side, I might add some Clen in to the PCT (just for fat loss, not any recovery purpose) to switch from the ECA after a break and do 2 week on, 1 week off. I want to keep as much fat off as possible which is of course why I'm lean bulking. I can get clen only in 50mcg capsules so I would stick to that 1 a day for 2 weeks since dividing it up is a pain in the ass.

    Any thoughts of changes or suggestions to PCT? I don't want to change the cycle because I want to see how I can handle the tren. I've only ever used test, so I'm going to keep the addition of new compounds into my stack one at a time. I also plan on getting some fasted blood work done before I start as well as 3 weeks after my PCT to make sure everything is in check.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Blaz Kavlic's Avatar
    Blaz Kavlic is offline Associate Member
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    Why you wanna run enanthate for only 8 weeks? It'll be week 5 or 6 before you feel anything, and then you've only got two more weeks left. I'd go with test P and tren A for an 8 week cycle. If you do this, run the HCG from day 1 and have caber on hand. If testing your system's ability to handle the tren A is a concern, just start off with a low dose of around 50mg EOD to begin with.

    For PCT i'd drop the HCG and run Clomid with the Nolva at 100/100/50/50/50 and 40/40/20/20/20 respectively.

  3. #3
    redz's Avatar
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    Definitely too short for enanthate also HCG should be ran up to pct not during pct. I dont like your pct either. An ai on cycle would be good too at a low dose not letro though.

  4. #4
    markymark909 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaz Kavlic View Post
    Why you wanna run enanthate for only 8 weeks? It'll be week 5 or 6 before you feel anything, and then you've only got two more weeks left. I'd go with test P and tren A for an 8 week cycle. If you do this, run the HCG from day 1 and have caber on hand. If testing your system's ability to handle the tren A is a concern, just start off with a low dose of around 50mg EOD to begin with.

    For PCT i'd drop the HCG and run Clomid with the Nolva at 100/100/50/50/50 and 40/40/20/20/20 respectively.
    I've been continuing to do some reading, and I guess since I'm wondering if I respond well to Tren, Tren A would be my better bet since it could clear out of my system faster. What dosage would you run the HCG at from day 1? From the steroid profile on Tren A I read: "Trenbolone 's active metabolite 17beta-trenbolone has a binding affinity to the progesterone receptor (PgR) that is actually greater than progesterone itself (18). No need to panic though, the anti-estrogens letrozole or fulvestrant can lower progesterone levels, and combat any progestenic sides. The use of a 19-nor compound like trenbolone also increases prolactin & . bromocriptine or cabergoline are often recommended to lower prolactin levels (20)"

    Also

    "Ironically, even though Trenbolone ( Tren ) is an excellent contest prep drug, it lowers your thyroid level(23), and this raises prolactin. I recommend taking T3 (25mcgs/day) along with your Tren to avoid elevating your prolactin too high via this route."

    So should I make sure I use an intermittent dose of letrozole (since my capsules are high dose) to lower progesterone levels and cytomel (T3) which would keep my thyroid from shutting down which would keep down prolactin? Maybe it's better to keep the letro out because they recommend long ester test such as cypionate or enanthate which the resulting estrogen from aromatization will assist tren with even more anabolic effect? I used sustanon my first cycle ever doing steroids for 4 months straight (risky I know) and I recovered absolutely fine from it (still won't try it again) and never once had a gyno symptom. I've never had a symptom since I started steroids so I'm not worried about estrogen sensitivity in that regard though I always have emergency letro in stock. Not disagreeing with you, but I don't know about caber too much, where I would get some, etc. And if I was to get cytomel (T3) instead, I could kill 2 birds with one stone for the clenbuterol that I might use in PCT to prevent downregulation. And I do like the idea for the rest of the PCT. I'm still experimenting with it, some guys say they like HCG during cycle and PCT, some prefer it just at PCT, I guess it's just finding out what works best for me when it comes down to it. This will probably be the biggest cycle (for me) that I will do for the next year so I want to do it right.
    Last edited by markymark909; 06-01-2013 at 07:24 AM.

  5. #5
    Back In Black's Avatar
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    You are 21 years old?
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  6. #6
    markymark909 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back In Black View Post
    You are 21 years old?
    22, all I'm looking for is respectful input for good information disregarding my age as I know there will be the few that will try and chastise me for it.

  7. #7
    Fllifter's Avatar
    Fllifter is offline Associate Member
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    If your hell bent on cycling at 22 why not go with something less harsh like a test only cycle ? Tren is a harsh compound op .

  8. #8
    Back In Black's Avatar
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    Please layout your cycle and PCT history including dates of each.
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  9. #9
    markymark909 is offline New Member
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    I have done 2 cycles of sustanon only (500mg/ml), 1st one 4 months (Sept-Dec 2012), 2nd one was 2 months (Feb 2013-March 2013), both using nolvadex for PCT, and everything checked out with bloodwork. I would like to start this next cycle at the start of July. I will be getting bloodwork done at the end of this month before I start and a few weeks after I finish the PCT. Since I have had no issues with test only, so I want to try and add tren . This is going to be my last cycle, possibly for the next few years as I am going to go away for school and won't have access to the stuff (from a good reliable source) and I'll will be focusing my finances towards school. IMO, I don't think this sounds like a crazy idea, It's only two compounds for a cycle, and I haven't had an issue with test. But you're right Fllifter, it is a bit harsher, which is why I want to make sure I have better PCT and preventative measures than I have with the test only in the past (which worked perfectly fine for me).
    Last edited by markymark909; 06-01-2013 at 09:27 AM.

  10. #10
    Back In Black's Avatar
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    So you ran a 16-18 week cycle as your fist, PCT for 1 month then straight into your 2nd cycle as soon as your PCT ended, no break?

    How tall are you and what do you weigh?
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  11. #11
    markymark909 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back In Black View Post
    So you ran a 16-18 week cycle as your fist, PCT for 1 month then straight into your 2nd cycle as soon as your PCT ended, no break?

    How tall are you and what do you weigh?
    I realize that wasn't the smartest thing to do, I'm not going to argue that but I didn't hurt myself from it, bloodwork is fine, no harm done. I'm not trying to justify that by saying I didn't screw myself up though, I realize it wasn't the proper way to do it. I'm 5'11", 190 lbs, 12% bf, currently cutting until end of June trying to get to 10% bf. And I have been taking a long break after PCT for the second cycle, I realize I didn't take enough time the first time around.

  12. #12
    Back In Black's Avatar
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    Honestly? 2 cycles to get to those stats?

    You'd be better off spending your money on food and spending your time in our nutrition forum.
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  13. #13
    markymark909 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back In Black View Post
    Honestly? 2 cycles to get to those stats?

    You'd be better off spending your money on food and spending your time in our nutrition forum.
    I know it's not the best results ever, but I now have a reputable nutritionist who has prepped bodybuilders who's been telling me what to eat and has helped me immensely and now once I start lean bulking, I'm looking to make some really good gains. I have my diet and training in check, I'm just looking for some good info for PCT and mid cycle management from some experienced guys besides being told I have no business doing that.

    CYCLE 8 weeks:
    Tren A: 200 mg/mL a week
    Test Cyp: 500 mg/mL a week
    HCG : *would like some advice on the dosage*
    Cytomel (T3) OR Caber: *would like some advice on the dosage*

    PCT starting 3 weeks after last shot:
    Clomid with the Nolva at 100/100/50/50/50 and 40/40/20/20/20 respectively. (as recommended by Blaz)

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by markymark909; 06-01-2013 at 08:39 AM.

  14. #14
    OnTheSauce is offline Banned
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    T3 OR caber? Lol. Why would it be between those

  15. #15
    Lunk1's Avatar
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    Why would anyone give you advise with "disregard to your age" as you said? It's an extremely important factor, in fact probably the MOST important factor.

  16. #16
    markymark909 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick4588 View Post
    T3 OR caber? Lol. Why would it be between those
    From what I've read, Tren will slow down your thyroid which will increase prolactin. T3 keeps down prolactin by keeping your thyroid in check. That's what the steroid profiles on this site have told me.

  17. #17
    Blaz Kavlic's Avatar
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    Mate running test C is an even worse choice than test E for an 8 week cycle. Test C is the slowest releasing ester and should be run for a minimum of 12 weeks to produce results. If you must run this cycle against the advice of many, run test P for 8 weeks. I just ran test P alone and gained 12kg in 8 weeks.

    Personally I dont think you're ready for tren . The step up from a test only cycle to adding more compounds is not to be taken lightly. Its clear from your posts that you need to do more research and educate yourself before adding additional compounds, especially tren. You're young, you've got time ahead of you so keep reading before taking unnecessary risks.

    If I were you, i'd do a cycle like this:

    Weeks 1-8
    400mg test P per week (around 125mg eod)
    HCG 250iu eod

    Weeks 2-8
    A-dex 0.25mg eod or as required

    Weeks 9-13
    Clomid 100/100/50/50/50
    Nolva 40/40/20/20/20

    If you train hard and eat like a horse you'll be amazed at the results from test P alone.

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