Test prop vs Test ethanate for first cycle

[toilet]

Ill post my possible cycle up when I have it ready

Thinking of front loading 1000mg first week then 500mg next 11

[Doom44]

Ill post my possible cycle up when I have it ready

Thinking of front loading 1000mg first week then 500mg next 11

First cycle keep it simple. Dont have to front loading

[itsjayman02]

No need to front load on your first cycle!!

[toilet]

Yeah but it won't do any harm will it? Want dem gains

[itsjayman02]

No need to front load on your first cycle.......followed this thread and its commendable you are asking so many questions and researching.

Advice given is correct for your stats and first cycle

Good to go !!

[itsjayman02]

Gains come per say with each progressive cycle

The hard part is keeping as much as you can which ultimately relies on numerous factors!!

[toilet]

Only really want to do 2 cycles tops. Goal is 170lbs 6-8%. Just wondering if anything substantive can go wrong by front loading. My rationale for doing so was that with test e you aren't going to know if your gear is bunk
Till week 4 so if I front loaded I might get an idea by week 2. Just don't want to be injecting myself with nothing for 5 weeks to just be disheartened.


Also some people seem to only be gaining 10lbs a cycle and I really want a good 20lbs and to keep most of it. Just strikes me as weird how some people gain half as much as others even when factors such as years training, proximity to natural limit Etc remain the same

[itsjayman02]

Increase of sides front loading for your first cycle

Gains are not just dependant on Aas but diet sleep metabolism training etc

If you are worried about bunk gear better no gains after 5 weeks than gyno !!

Most of the things your asking are researchable but we can take away the need for trial and error
You just need to listen to vets advice.

[toilet]

Alright bro I won't front load. Ill just bust my ass and hope
For dem gains. Thanks

[itsjayman02]

Replace hope with dedication and you will be fine buddy !!

[marcus300]

Wait till your around 24 yrs old until your HPTA has developed then you can have the best chance possible, anything under this you are risking it and to be honest if you cant gain at 21-22 yrs old something is wrong anyway with your diet and training and steroids wont help, fix the problem and grow and don't reply on aas at your age .

[Back In Black]

Have you given us your stats yet toilet?

5'9.5"
22 years old

Weight?
Bodyfat%?

[Flacco]

Only really want to do 2 cycles tops.

Keep in mind, most juice heads don't start out saying... "I want to do a couple cycles a year for the rest of my life."

I'll speak for myself... at 18/19 "technically" I was a man, but I had the mindset of a teenager in many ways. Even now in some. At 19, I said, I'll just do one or two cycles to get where I want to be, and that's it. Wish I would have weighted till my thirties, maybe even late 30's before I started jucing. Can't take it back though. Its your body though. Gotta make your own mistakes.

[BunkerPunk]

I love reading all the help the vets give out to people who've done their research but still have questions. This site is awesome. Good luck with your cycle toilet.

[Aziz]

When it's all said and done, he'll be glad he did the E or if he doesn't he'll wish he did. So much discussion over not so much. At this point the Q's of what ester with the Test has been over discussed and I think someone wants attention. It's a moot point now Aziz. Even you see that. Oh, hi Aziz !! ...crazy mike

lol once again you rock crazy young mike

[crazy mike]

One more time. Everything you seem to be wanting to do comes down to QUICK and easy gains, the no more aas.
Trial error. You say only one or two and trying to base 1st cycle on the premise that this will happen just like this , if I do this. If I do prop it will work faster, if I front load I will gain faster and on , and on. You don't have a clue and you keep planning and asking and it goes on and on.
The best bang for your buck, first cycle WILL BE Test E 10 - 12 weeks. Take the simplest rout, the least expensive rout, , and why...that's what you asked US, and WE as a whole advised you. For a law degree man you don't seem to understand what you've been reading and or what we have said 30 or more posts ago. STOP look and listen, read...Simple Simon get three top vets, ask and do. It gets down to a bit of testosterone and a whole lot of diet and work. Over and out ...crazy mike I think , yes I think any more discussion on the cycle is a waste of time.

[Chx beach 79]

^^^^^ listen to crazy mike! And I agree there is no more reason to keep talking about it... Good luck!

[crazy mike]

Another thing, I quote you "My rationale for doing so was that with test e you aren't going to know if your gear is bunk Till week 4 so if I front loaded I might get an idea by week 2. Just don't want to be injecting myself with nothing for 5 weeks to just be disheartened. "

What? who are you doing bus with and where are you buddies. What sources do they use. That's another reason to sit back a few months even. Get a known source. There are discussions on here. If you cant rely on your source you are being out wrong. You want to be careful, bets bang etc... But you are willing to put your bank acct and your a$$ on the line to inject something you don't know WTF. This whole reasoning that you speak of is not proper man.
Only twice , but quick, easy, fast just get some sh!t, hope it's good, inject and see, know in a few weeks so that's a rational. That's it, read your own thread again start to finish and see what I am saying. Time to shut this baby down. ...crazy mike, and I'm holding on to my panties now...


I tell you the truth, in ALL MY YEARS, I promise you I HAVE NEVER USED BUNK GEAR. NEVER and have never been sold any...............

[Chx beach 79]

^^^ agree with crazy mike yet again! You will see effects earlier then 4 weeks, that is just how long it takes to get your levels high. Just go for it and don't think so much about it!

[toilet]

Well I don't many people on steroids so hard to tell what source is good or not. The source I have at the moment is really expensive apparently but has a good rep. Like literally 4 times the price. But still don't ateroids come with a brand or something so I can tell by the brand name etc? Even if not bunk I don't want some underdosed shit either, maybe ill check out the how to spot bunk gear section.

I have a feeling I'm going to gain a good 20lbs,

Because I got sick in the middle of my cut and ended up losing a lot of muscle too.

Was 167 11% 3 months ago now 152 8% so need to utilise my muscle memory and gain that weight back before starting

And I know everyone will be like omg you're so light you don't need to cycle. But honestly all my lifts are really good and I'm just light at the moment due to getting sick mid cut.

Still putting up 225 x 10 on bench press even at this light weight.

Haven't seen any substantial gains in 2 or 3 years although admittedly my legs do need a lot of work as I have often had a slack attotude to leg day

[toilet]

And yes I've already agreed ill do either 500 or 600mg a week 12 weeks

[Aziz]

And yes I've already agreed ill do either 500 or 600mg a week 12 weeks

perfect case closed lol

[Back In Black]

At 152lbs, at your height, irrespective of you age, you shouldn't be considering AAS.

For someone who considers themselves educated you are making a poor decision if you decide to cycle.

You should be looking to gain 20lbs before you cycle. You should also wait a couple of years in view if your age.

When did you last do a bulk diet?

[toilet]

Last bulk ended 3 months ago at id guess about 12% BF and 168lbs. ill post a few pics;

obviously some areas (legs especially) lack development but meh most ppl seem to jump on way before their natty limit

so yeah after this i started to cut and am now really really light

As stated above, only reason I am so light atm is because I got ill during my cut. So in my mind, I am not actually that light and by the time I start cycle (in a month or two) I should have gained back all my weight anyway now that im better (that muscle memory). Lightest ive been in 3 years at the moment.

[Gaspaco]

Don't get me wrong but according to your picture your base is not ready for AAS!

You have so much of natty gains in front of you.

I would wait...

[toilet]

meh i try brah. but havent increased weight on bench press in like 2 yrs. depressing. though legs is a different story entirely.

[Back In Black]

Ok, toilet, here's the rub.

You are too light and too young. Just because other people do things it doesn't mean you should.

Spend some time in the nutrition forum and continue your learning. You say you could have whey every meal but never have a doughnut. You believe in simple carbs immediately PWO. Read about glycemic loading (not just glycemic index) and also read about the insulin index. Then see if you change your mind about any of your dietary comments.

Have your workout critiqued in out lifting section. If you haven't improved your bench in 2 years you are doing something very wrong. Start training your legs and your back and not just your 'disco' muscles. When you have given a new improved workout plan 6 months, combined with a great dietary plan, come back and let's see your progress. You will be closer to a more suitable age by then.

[toilet]

Well I could have a donut if it fitted my macros... Wasn't quite referring to it in that sense. I know about gl values and stuff so not sure what you are hinting at that I look at? I don't think it really matters as long as you hit your micros and macros what the gi of the carb is. And I don't see what's wrong with high gi carbs post work out?

I do train back it's just legs I often skip. But yeah I'll put my work out plan up for sure. And maybe stick it out till October

[Back In Black]

Look up insulin index and see that whey every meal really isn't a great choice.

Simple carbs PWO is so last decade. I consume zero carbs for at least an hour PWO.

[austinite]

Well I could have a donut if it fitted my macros... Wasn't quite referring to it in that sense. I know about gl values and stuff so not sure what you are hinting at that I look at? I don't think it really matters as long as you hit your micros and macros what the gi of the carb is. And I don't see what's wrong with high gi carbs post work out?

I do train back it's just legs I often skip. But yeah I'll put my work out plan up for sure. And maybe stick it out till October

I haven't read the thread so I may have missed the answer, but why do you skip legs often?

[toilet]

Looked up insulin index; wiki told me the following; "but high-protein foods and bakery products that are rich in fat and refined carbohydrates "elicit insulin responses that were disproportionately higher than their glycemic responses."

I don't get how this precludes the use of protein powder in every meal? Just says high protein foods which would encompass meats too? Plus I don't get the point of the insulin index at all. I thought the current correct approach was iffym then eat it but as a rule of thumb make sure you fit your micros and full 80-90% of your diet with what you would consider as clean foods. So I don't get what I'm looking for here? Explain please.

Austin; I have no reason to skip legs it's just me being lazy. For a good year I was smashing them hard doing wendler 5/3/1 but then I ****ed my back so stopped squatting and thus got slack on leg day.

But honestly I think my bench is maxed out to my natural limit but yes some of my other lifts can go up for sure

[austinite]

Looked up insulin index; wiki told me the following; "but high-protein foods and bakery products that are rich in fat and refined carbohydrates "elicit insulin responses that were disproportionately higher than their glycemic responses."

I don't get how this precludes the use of protein powder in every meal? Just says high protein foods which would encompass meats too? Plus I don't get the point of the insulin index at all. I thought the current correct approach was iffym then eat it but as a rule of thumb make sure you fit your micros and full 80-90% of your diet with what you would consider as clean foods. So I don't get what I'm looking for here? Explain please.

Austin; I have no reason to skip legs it's just me being lazy. For a good year I was smashing them hard doing wendler 5/3/1 but then I ****ed my back so stopped squatting and thus got slack on leg day.

But honestly I think my bench is maxed out to my natural limit but yes some of my other lifts can go up for sure

Gotchya. Wasting your time on the bench press. Pickup dumbbells instead.

[Back In Black]

Whey ilicits a high insulin response. Higher than most meats. So it makes it a poorer protein choice.

Ultimately you will never know what works for you until you try many different things. As your body should be in a constants state of flux, so should your diet be.

You have a diet thread, please visit it

[marcus300]

Ok, toilet, here's the rub.

You are too light and too young. Just because other people do things it doesn't mean you should.

Spend some time in the nutrition forum and continue your learning. You say you could have whey every meal but never have a doughnut. You believe in simple carbs immediately PWO. Read about glycemic loading (not just glycemic index) and also read about the insulin index. Then see if you change your mind about any of your dietary comments.

Have your workout critiqued in out lifting section. If you haven't improved your bench in 2 years you are doing something very wrong. Start training your legs and your back and not just your 'disco' muscles. When you have given a new improved workout plan 6 months, combined with a great dietary plan, come back and let's see your progress. You will be closer to a more suitable age by then.

Good advice ^^