Keeping Gains

[calstate23]

dang man 400+ per week just doesnt sound healthy for maintaining..

what i think i am understanding though is since we usually will not reach our genetic limit naturally then i could possibly benefit from running a cycle or 3 because the cycle would enable me to reach the genetic limit (and beyond) i probably wouldnt have reached otherwise and my body should be able to maintain it (up to my genetic limit which will be more LBM than i currently have now) even though i am no longer cycling..?? (i hope u understand the question!)

Hypothetically, no...

Because if you used steroids to reach bodies natural genetic limit, you reached it not naturally....Which means everything gained of steroids you will lose even if your body could hold it as a natural...If that makes sense....

[Brazensol]

Look at scooby from youtube. for his age, he's a pretty big guy, with a bigger chest than most folks who cycle.

I do believe that you will lose all gains post limitations. It's how the human body works. Same with horses when they stop injecting them with Equipoise , they go back to original endurance. We can't physically hold onto what our bodies cannot maintain naturally. It's just not possible. Muscle is a completely different beast than anything else. This is the sole purpose of steroid use . Heck, we can't even use T3 without some sort of protection.

Your body is incredibly smart and so complex that most folks couldn't even begin to understand. But like anything else, when something is "out of order", it's almost always temporary. Certainly always in the case of muscle tissue. When your body is done fighting an infection, white blood cells go back to normal. When your body has too much T3 floating around, TSH slows down to stabilize. When your temperature goes up, your sympathetic nervous system triggers sweat glands to bring temperature back in order.

So you see, your body is constantly going back to normal. Every second and every minute of the day it is fighting to stabilize and keep you alive. The human body was never designed to carry so much muscle mass that has to be fed in order to be maintained. You'll never naturally produce enough testosterone and everything else your body needs to maintain such tremendous growth. If you attempt to eat 20,000 calories you'll end up with far more issues than maintaining muscle. It's literally, physically impossible. It's not a random statement, it's how we, as humans are designed to function with the existing circulatory and hormone secreting systems that we possess. We are not supermen. Just men.

I often marvel, with all that has to happen to run correctly, that we can even wake up in the morning and get out of bed! It is just simply amazing what the body does day after day for as long as it does.

[austinite]

I've been thinking about this topic for awhile tonight (and wondering for quite some time how I would express my concerns but this seems a good place for it). Good topic by the way!

Like so many people who lift I neglected my legs. I know I am not the only one because I see it every time I go to the gym. My upper body is doing ok but it still has room to grow to be sure. Add to that I'm over 50 and it's easy to see time is NOT on my side any more. Cycling for me will be somewhat of a shortcut (by that I mean I doubt I will be as close to my genetic potential as I probably should be) to try and get as close to my genetic potential as reasonablyquick as possible. BUT! My legs are lagging for sure and will be for quite some time to come so... when I run my first cycle do my legs get to "come along for the ride" or will I cause an even greater disparity between them and my upper body?

I've have reached the critical sub 15% bf goal (and then some) for cycling (which I knew was a must) but I must admit I doubt I am near my natural limit. I'd guess somewhere around 75-80% at best. Would I be doing myself a diservice by cycling very late this year or early next year given my current condition? I must admit to being somewhat impatient but again, time is no longer an ally for me (not that I am ready for the old folks home just yet, lol). I don't currently have any desire to go beyond my potential but would not mind getting there quicker. Here is where I envision myself being completely satisfied with my body; 190-200 pounds at 10% bf. I am currently sitting at 177 pounds and 13.5% bf so this would require me adding ~22 pounds of lbm. Bottom line - am I ready to cycle?

It's amazing how much lean mass legs can hold...

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using steroids for the purpose of reaching your limits. The problem I have is when it's so far behind limits, that it becomes unsafe. Such as a 6 foot tall 145 lb man. Another factor of readiness is your state of mind. It's a completely different scenario when someone buys anabolic steroids and then asks how to use them. Vs. someone like you, Braz, who obviously researches and has proven that diet and dedication actually work. So your results would become amplified. Far more than any first timer. You're absolutely ready.

I personally do not want to inject 600mg weekly for the rest of my life. So my goal is simple, 235 lbs at 11% BF. I have no interest in anything beyond that or even lower body fat. Even 11% will require a very steady diet to maintain. I'll know very quickly if I can maintain that weight naturally. So far at 225 and 12 % I'm fine. No loss and only running TRT. 100mg Test and 150 deca . Certainly not enough to maintain mass, so I'm practically doing it naturally.

[AD]

I often marvel, with all that has to happen to run correctly, that we can even wake up in the morning and get out of bed! It is just simply amazing what the body does day after day for as long as it does.

Do you believe in G..? (I'm trying not to make this into a religious thread )

[5x10]

It's amazing how much lean mass legs can hold...

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using steroids for the purpose of reaching your limits. The problem I have is when it's so far behind limits, that it becomes unsafe. Such as a 6 foot tall 145 lb man. Another factor of readiness is your state of mind. It's a completely different scenario when someone buys anabolic steroids and then asks how to use them. Vs. someone like you, Braz, who obviously researches and has proven that diet and dedication actually work. So your results would become amplified. Far more than any first timer. You're absolutely ready.

I personally do not want to inject 600mg weekly for the rest of my life. So my goal is simple, 235 lbs at 11% BF. I have no interest in anything beyond that or even lower body fat. Even 11% will require a very steady diet to maintain. I'll know very quickly if I can maintain that weight naturally. So far at 225 and 12 % I'm fine. No loss and only running TRT. 100mg Test and 150 deca. Certainly not enough to maintain mass, so I'm practically doing it naturally.

im miring your weight/body fat ratio, but I wouldn't call it close to natural
You are close to 2.5 times the natural amt for a man, weekly
And you are using a steroid , that arguably, is more anabolic than test

[calstate23]

I've been thinking about this topic for awhile tonight (and wondering for quite some time how I would express my concerns but this seems a good place for it). Good topic by the way!

Like so many people who lift I neglected my legs. I know I am not the only one because I see it every time I go to the gym. My upper body is doing ok but it still has room to grow to be sure. Add to that I'm over 50 and it's easy to see time is NOT on my side any more. Cycling for me will be somewhat of a shortcut (by that I mean I doubt I will be as close to my genetic potential as I probably should be) to try and get as close to my genetic potential as reasonablyquick as possible. BUT! My legs are lagging for sure and will be for quite some time to come so... when I run my first cycle do my legs get to "come along for the ride" or will I cause an even greater disparity between them and my upper body?

I've have reached the critical sub 15% bf goal (and then some) for cycling (which I knew was a must) but I must admit I doubt I am near my natural limit. I'd guess somewhere around 75-80% at best. Would I be doing myself a diservice by cycling very late this year or early next year given my current condition? I must admit to being somewhat impatient but again, time is no longer an ally for me (not that I am ready for the old folks home just yet, lol). I don't currently have any desire to go beyond my potential but would not mind getting there quicker. Here is where I envision myself being completely satisfied with my body; 190-200 pounds at 10% bf. I am currently sitting at 177 pounds and 13.5% bf so this would require me adding ~22 pounds of lbm. Bottom line - am I ready to cycle?

Steroids only improve what you have...

Hmm...This might sound a little weird but....Imagine a flower with 6 perfectly shaped petals that are blue....If you "so-called" gave it steroids the shape would not change...They would just be bigger and the color gets brighter...

It won't lose it shape, it won't lose it's color...Just makes it a little bit better...It won't turn it into something different...Still have the same shape, still have 6 petals and still be blue....

And this is why the low bf% comes into play before steroid use ...You want proportion, shape, and definition because you are just going to turn out what you look like before but bigger and with little bit more detail...

[austinite]

im miring your weight/body fat ratio, but I wouldn't call it close to natural
You are close to 2.5 times the natural amt for a man, weekly
And you are using a steroid, that arguably, is more anabolic than test

I seriously doubt it. I've killed deca and still maintained for those 6 weeks. 150mg of deca won't save anything but your synovial joints. Again, you'd be surprised and amazed how much you can grow naturally. We're all just blinded by steroids .

[Brazensol]

It's amazing how much lean mass legs can hold...

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using steroids for the purpose of reaching your limits. The problem I have is when it's so far behind limits, that it becomes unsafe. Such as a 6 foot tall 145 lb man. Another factor of readiness is your state of mind. It's a completely different scenario when someone buys anabolic steroids and then asks how to use them. Vs. someone like you, Braz, who obviously researches and has proven that diet and dedication actually work. So your results would become amplified. Far more than any first timer. You're absolutely ready.

I personally do not want to inject 600mg weekly for the rest of my life. So my goal is simple, 235 lbs at 11% BF. I have no interest in anything beyond that or even lower body fat. Even 11% will require a very steady diet to maintain. I'll know very quickly if I can maintain that weight naturally. So far at 225 and 12 % I'm fine. No loss and only running TRT. 100mg Test and 150 deca. Certainly not enough to maintain mass, so I'm practically doing it naturally.

Exactly on point! I know my chances of winning the Mr. Olympia are zero. Probably always was zero but now no there is no doubting it... So, 400, 500, 600 mgs plus of test. per week is not where I want to be. I want to reach (or get very close to) my potential, 10-12% bf, and hopefully do it with just test. cycles (since it is easier for me to get), and then maintain that through working out, cardio and good diet. It is good to hear you think I am ready as it puts my mind to ease. I have been really struggling with this question this for longer than you think and now that I got my bf sub 15% (sooner than expected) I have decisions to make! I have more questions to ask but will dedicate a thread to them when the time comes. Thanks again.

[Brazensol]

It's amazing how much lean mass legs can hold...

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using steroids for the purpose of reaching your limits. The problem I have is when it's so far behind limits, that it becomes unsafe. Such as a 6 foot tall 145 lb man. Another factor of readiness is your state of mind. It's a completely different scenario when someone buys anabolic steroids and then asks how to use them. Vs. someone like you, Braz, who obviously researches and has proven that diet and dedication actually work. So your results would become amplified. Far more than any first timer. You're absolutely ready.

I personally do not want to inject 600mg weekly for the rest of my life. So my goal is simple, 235 lbs at 11% BF. I have no interest in anything beyond that or even lower body fat. Even 11% will require a very steady diet to maintain. I'll know very quickly if I can maintain that weight naturally. So far at 225 and 12 % I'm fine. No loss and only running TRT. 100mg Test and 150 deca. Certainly not enough to maintain mass, so I'm practically doing it naturally.

How did you approach your doctor concerning this? I think it would do my shoulder joints a world of good but so far I can't even convince him to give me HCG for God's sake. Good news is I will get a new doc soon but whether he will be worth a damn is a whole other question...

[austinite]

Exactly on point! I know my chances of winning the Mr. Olympia are zero. Probably always was zero but now no there is no doubting it... So, 400, 500, 600 mgs plus of test. per week is not where I want to be. I want to reach (or get very close to) my potential, 10-12% bf, and hopefully do it with just test. cycles (since it is easier for me to get), and then maintain that through working out, cardio and good diet. It is good to hear you think I am ready as it puts my mind to ease. I have been really struggling with this question this for longer than you think and now that I got my bf sub 15% (sooner than expected) I have decisions to make! I have more questions to ask but will dedicate a thread to them when the time comes. Thanks again.

yeah I know the feeling. I came from 36% body fat. Sucked. But feels good to win.

[Brazensol]

Do you believe in G..? (I'm trying not to make this into a religious thread )

Honest to God I don't really know... lol. I like to think there is but then again I just don't know the answer to that one. I often think about it though.

[Brazensol]

Steroids only improve what you have...

Hmm...This might sound a little weird but....Imagine a flower with 6 perfectly shaped petals that are blue....If you "so-called" gave it steroids the shape would not change...They would just be bigger and the color gets brighter...

It won't lose it shape, it won't lose it's color...Just makes it a little bit better...It won't turn it into something different...Still have the same shape, still have 6 petals and still be blue....

And this is why the low bf% comes into play before steroid use...You want proportion, shape, and definition because you are just going to turn out what you look like before but bigger and with little bit more detail...

And bitch tits! We don't want those at all. lol. I already got the puffy nips from puberty and don't need the rest to go with them. lol.

[austinite]

How did you approach your doctor concerning this? I think it would do my shoulder joints a world of good but so far I can't even convince him to give me HCG for God's sake. Good news is I will get a new doc soon but whether he will be worth a damn is a whole other question...

Honestly it's not easy for most. I have one of the coolest docs I've ever met. She knows that I blast through TRT. We've never discussed it but she jokes around and even guides me through it safely. Blood work comes back and she says.. "ok, I see what you're doing here.... this is what I need you to do...". Not that I need her help with that but gives you an idea of the rapport we have. I started talking to her about deca and it's benefits, and why I needed it. Before I could finish she says "Alright alright, I sent it to the pharmacy". It was that easy. Basically complained of joint discomfort.

Anavar on the way, too. I wouldn't trade her for the world.

[austinite]

25 mg of Melatonin and I'm still up. You bastards.

[Brazensol]

25 mg of Melatonin and I'm still up. You bastards.

Holy Smokes! 1 mg still works for me! Based on your avatar I am assuming you are from Austin... If so I grew up just down the road in San Antonio.

[calstate23]

Do you believe in G..? (I'm trying not to make this into a religious thread )

I could go on for hours about this but I won't do it here...Someone start a new thread and let's see others opinions...

[AD]

I could go on for hours about this but I won't do it here...Someone start a new thread and let's see others opinions...

Better not.

[calstate23]

Better not.

Ha ha...antagonizer

[calstate23]

One of my favorites...And probably yours...Do genetics REALLY exist? A TINY bit....A TINY BIT






This what happens when you don't ABUSE hormones, diet and train (Except he's still on test)

That should ANSWER EVERYONE'S questions...LOSE ALL GAINS

[Brazensol]

...or we could talk about politics!

[Brazensol]

One of my favorites...And probably yours...Do genetics REALLY exist? A TINY bit....A TINY BIT






This what happens when you don't ABUSE hormones, diet and train (Except he's still on test)

That should ANSWER EVERYONE'S questions...LOSE ALL GAINS

OK. Who is that? I feel like I should know. Don't tell me it's Ronny Coleman!

[calstate23]

Tom prince............get the drift?

[calstate23]

Picture blurry but again, get the drift? Tom Prince with Jay C and Bob C....

[calstate23]

So you see Tom Prince with Jay and Bob right?

SMALL DUDE...VERY SMALL...

Here is Tom Prince before Kidney Failure...............

[Brazensol]

Wow!

[calstate23]

Hmm Hmmm...Don't UNDERESTIMATE people...Get the drift again?

[calstate23]

Wow!

Yes, EXACTLY WOW!

People do NOT understand bodybuilding in the SLIGHTEST bit....VERY FEW...

I have more examples if people would like to see

[Brazensol]

Still amazing what aas can do. I think I will be very happy somewhere near my genetic limit knowing I can keep it with only good dieting and hard work at the gym plus my bike. I think I would be so depressed going from what was to what isn't. It's got to be a real downer.

[calstate23]

Still amazing what aas can do. I think I will be very happy somewhere near my genetic limit knowing I can keep it with only good dieting and hard work at the gym plus my bike. I think I would be so depressed going from what was to what isn't. It's got to be a real downer.

Ha ha...That isn't AAS my friend....That's called EVERY HORMONE in the book and also abusing it!

Yes, steroids 100%, but the gh, insulin , IGF-1 and on and on and on....Hormone abuse..ONLY way to step on Olympia stage...ONLY way...

[SlinKing]

but tom prince straight up quit lifting....

he quit hormonas and quit lifting.

[AD]

So you see Tom Prince with Jay and Bob right?

SMALL DUDE...VERY SMALL...

Here is Tom Prince before Kidney Failure...............

<img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143004"/>

Are you saying he lost his muscles to the disease or from stopping the juice?

[calstate23]

but tom prince straight up quit lifting....

he quit hormonas and quit lifting.

And EXACTLY...What's your point? I said it earlier in the post...Jail bait off hormones, diet and training look like crap after 1-2 years...

[calstate23]

Are you saying he lost his muscles to the disease or from stopping the juice?

Doesn't matter, DISEASE or not....

All it means is no food intake, no training, and no hormones...Which = Not much

[calstate23]

EVERYONE loves to talk about body types and who can or can't be a "Bodybuilder"

here is one for ya'll

Dexter Jackson 1992 ectomorph



I've said it ONCE, I've said it TWICE, genetics DON'T matter....Just a LIL bit, if you get my drift...

So Dexter from 1992 to Dexter Mr. Olympia in 2008....Hmmm Hmmm WEIRD...Not to me...

[AD]

Doesn't matter, DISEASE or not....

All it means is no food intake, no training, and no hormones...Which = Not much

That seems a little off topic. I thought we were talking about losing gains when off cycle, with training and diet still on point.

[marcus300]

I kept a lot of my gains when I didn't cycle for 4 years except trt, did this by being consistent at very hard intense training and an excellent diet

[calstate23]

I do..... I'm 6'1 - got to 200 naturally. Been up to 255 at 12%.....

I've just come off a 1 year lay off. No gym, no hormones. I held on to quite a bit. By all means..... I don't look 255 at 12% lmao but I still looked fairly big. Here's a pic of me about 8-9 months without lifting or hormones.....

I'm bigger than this now..... Sitting on 253 at the moment after being back for about a month. I'm now doing cardio out the ass to lean out.

Sry to get off topic...... In short..... I think 300mgs/wk maybe 400 with a good diet and steady training can maintain a decent amount.

I'm sorry but this has been killin me for hours and hours and I can't let you slip by....

This is BS to the FULLEST extent...Come on man, apparently people aren't smart around here or don't know what their talking about...But I can't let this slip by....

EVERYTHING you mentioned is fake...I know bodybuilding INSIDE AND OUT and this statement is just VERY VERY WRONG...

You are NOT what you speak of....It's IMPOSSIBLE!

[panntastic]

I'm sorry but this has been killin me for hours and hours and I can't let you slip by....

This is BS to the FULLEST extent...Come on man, apparently people aren't smart around here or don't know what their talking about...But I can't let this slip by....

EVERYTHING you mentioned is fake...I know bodybuilding INSIDE AND OUT and this statement is just VERY VERY WRONG...

You are NOT what you speak of....It's IMPOSSIBLE!

Haz is a very long standing and very well respected member here
He speaks the truth buddy
What is so wrong with his statement?
Because something works for one person an not with another you think it's BS?

[calstate23]

Haz is a very long standing and very well respected member here
He speaks the truth buddy
What is so wrong with his statement?
Because something works for one person an not with another you think it's BS?

No, but there is a MAJOR difference of what's possible for someone and what's not....

Apparently, I could be wrong but he "floats" between 10-12% at 255 lbs...Yet he came off of hormones and is same weight and same bf%?

If he was "so-called" 10-12% bf on hormones he BETTER be A LOT higher in bf% off hormones...You can't pull the SAME numbers on hormones as a natty...NO WAY, NO HOW....

Just look at his pic and ANY KNOWLEDGEABLE person can see hormone use there...Why even try to lie?

It's RIDICULOUS

[panntastic]

No, but there is a MAJOR difference of what's possible for someone and what's not....

Apparently, I could be wrong but he "floats" between 10-12% at 255 lbs...Yet he came off of hormones and is same weight and same bf%?

If he was "so-called" 10-12% bf on hormones he BETTER be A LOT higher in bf% off hormones...You can't pull the SAME numbers on hormones as a natty...NO WAY, NO HOW....

Just look at his pic and ANY KNOWLEDGEABLE person can see hormone use there...Why even try to lie?

It's RIDICULOUS

If you read MARCUS DIARY in the lounge section Haz does go into detail about all of this
If it wasn't Saturday and I didn't have the kids I would locate and link this for you.

I think what he's wrote has somehow been misconstrued possibly
I know he's spoken in past of being BIG using hormones
Then he had some personal things and took some time away from training/ hormone usage etc
Now he's getting back into it properly again and leaning out and gaining lbm

I may be wrong but that's how I read it.

But Haz is no liar buddy trust me