Free test not being absorbed

**rowlover** · 09-16-2013, 03:54 PM

Recently got my blood taken at the end of a 12 week cycle and was told by the doc that I have way too much free test not being absorbed, which he thinks ought to have made me much bigger (gained 3/4 inch on my arms and I'm not a beginner). The amount of free test was 173 and the apparent maximum for a man naturally is supposedly 94. I was using 1500mg per week of testosterone cypionate .

He said my receptors (I'm assuming androgen receptors?) were likely overloaded and weren't absorbing the testosterone . Is that a genetic factor or is there some other reason or supplement issue here?

Also, if this is just a matter of excess testosterone not being used (except for nice side effects like dangerously enlarged, oxygen-rejecting red blood cells and acne), I'd gladly reduce the dose next time.

Thanks!

**Bio-Active** · 09-16-2013, 04:43 PM

Do you have reference ranges? Seems like my free t was way higher than that the last time I ran labs

**rowlover** · 09-16-2013, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by jim230027

Do you have reference ranges? Seems like my free t was way higher than that the last time I ran labs

31-94 is supposedly the normal medical range.

**OnTheSauce** · 09-16-2013, 05:26 PM

For ng/dl its 5-21. The more free test the better.

**rowlover** · 09-16-2013, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by OnTheSauce

For ng/dl its 5-21. The more free test the better.

Yeah mine was measured in nmol/L which is a chemical unit I'm not familiar with. Is free test actually better though? If it's not binding, what's the point? You are probably not using the rest for muscle building I would think.

**OnTheSauce** · 09-16-2013, 05:50 PM

What is bound is not usable. Free test is used to build muscle.

**rowlover** · 09-16-2013, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by OnTheSauce

What is bound is not usable. Free test is used to build muscle.

But isn't the bound test the kind that has successfully bound to the androgen receptor and thus started the actual process of increased protein synthesis, etc? How could the free test be causing any changes just floating around not interacting in any cellular process?

**Bio-Active** · 09-16-2013, 07:03 PM

according to that conversion your Free t levels are pretty high. Mine came back at 975 ng\dl which is pretty high for free T but that converts to 33.8325 nmol/L: So you should be happy with that number

**rowlover** · 09-16-2013, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by jim230027

according to that conversion your Free t levels are pretty high. Mine came back at 975 ng\dl which is pretty high for free T but that converts to 33.8325 nmol/L: So you should be happy with that number

Actually sorry I just realized it was pmol/L, not nmol/L. The nmol/L was for my bound test. I guess to sum it up I just want to make sure I'm not harming myself unnecessarily and p#ssing out useless testosterone with too much free test.

**jimmyinkedup** · 09-16-2013, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by rowlover

But isn't the bound test the kind that has successfully bound to the androgen receptor and thus started the actual process of increased protein synthesis, etc? How could the free test be causing any changes just floating around not interacting in any cellular process?

""bound test"(not sure a legit term) would be test bound by SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) and thus rendered inactive. Free (or ünbound) refers to the test avaiable to bind to androgen receptors and do its thing.

Also OP the androgen receptors dont get "överloaded". In the presence of excess androgen both the life span of AR and the rate of generation of new AR increases. Thus preventing overload or down-regulation of AR...so I dont think his explanation is accurate. The more likely scenario IMO would be low SHBG or that nothing in fact is wrong. What exactly is the problem? It sounds like your free test is through the roof and your gains were excellent?

**OnTheSauce** · 09-16-2013, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by jim230027

according to that conversion your Free t levels are pretty high. Mine came back at 975 ng\dl which is pretty high for free T but that converts to 33.8325 nmol/L: So you should be happy with that number

Doubt that bro, double check your bloodwork. To have 975, your total would be near 20,000. Free test only makes up usually 2-4%. As I said, range is 5-21. Mine was in the 400s with 8100 total t. And my free t % is higher than most

**DAAS** · 09-16-2013, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by OnTheSauce

Doubt that bro, double check your bloodwork. To have 975, your total would be near 20,000. Free test only makes up usually 2-4%. As I said, range is 5-21. Mine was in the 400s with 8100 total t. And my free t % is higher than most

what were you taking at the time to be at 8100 and 400 free?

**DAAS** · 09-16-2013, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

""bound test"(not sure a legit term) would be test bound by SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) and thus rendered inactive. Free (or ünbound) refers to the test avaiable to bind to androgen receptors and do its thing.

Also OP the androgen receptors dont get "överloaded". In the presence of excess androgen both the life span of AR and the rate of generation of new AR increases. Thus preventing overload or down-regulation of AR...so I dont think his explanation is accurate. The more likely scenario IMO would be low SHBG or that nothing in fact is wrong. What exactly is the problem? It sounds like your free test is through the roof and your gains were excellent?

down regulation is now being discovered as a myth correct? It used to be what people considered fact

**Bio-Active** · 09-16-2013, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by OnTheSauce

Doubt that bro, double check your bloodwork. To have 975, your total would be near 20,000. Free test only makes up usually 2-4%. As I said, range is 5-21. Mine was in the 400s with 8100 total t. And my free t % is higher than most

Sorry guys it was 975 pg/ml free test and 3,200 ng/dl total testosterone

**kelkel** · 09-16-2013, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

""bound test"(not sure a legit term) would be test bound by SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) and thus rendered inactive. Free (or ünbound) refers to the test avaiable to bind to androgen receptors and do its thing.

Also OP the androgen receptors dont get "överloaded". In the presence of excess androgen both the life span of AR and the rate of generation of new AR increases. Thus preventing overload or down-regulation of AR...so I dont think his explanation is accurate. The more likely scenario IMO would be low SHBG or that nothing in fact is wrong. What exactly is the problem? It sounds like your free test is through the roof and your gains were excellent?

Exactly this ^^^. Test goes up suppressing SHBG thus allowing more free T. Your doc seems to be under the mistaken idea that your free T should not be showing up on your lab work to be useful. Your doc needs to go back to Hormones 101. When it comes to how much size you gain, that's up to your training and nutrition and nothing else.

**rowlover** · 09-16-2013, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

""bound test"(not sure a legit term) would be test bound by SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) and thus rendered inactive. Free (or ünbound) refers to the test avaiable to bind to androgen receptors and do its thing.

Also OP the androgen receptors dont get "överloaded". In the presence of excess androgen both the life span of AR and the rate of generation of new AR increases. Thus preventing overload or down-regulation of AR...so I dont think his explanation is accurate. The more likely scenario IMO would be low SHBG or that nothing in fact is wrong. What exactly is the problem? It sounds like your free test is through the roof and your gains were excellent?

I don't think SHBG was measured on the bloodwork, but I know I caused my estrogen levels to be almost zero with anastrazole...wondering if that could have been a problem?

I think I made quite nice gains for a 3 month cycle but I guess the doc thought I'd be massive (not that he doesn't know what he's talking about; I know he sees a lot of dudes who juice and does research on it too).