how much fat is ok on cycle

**chaps** · 12-27-2013, 07:34 PM

Hi guys. I'm on week 7 of a 12 week test only cycle. I've gained 17lbs so far, and strength gains are starting to show nicely. What I want to know, is how much fat gain while bulking do you consider acceptable?

Before the cycle, I was floating around 12% bf, right now i'm probably around 16%. I'm starting to feel fat, but I don't want to give up on these awesome gains.

I'm sure I'm a little bloated as well, but lets not go there right now. What do you all think?

**gixxerboy1** · 12-27-2013, 07:37 PM

Its kinda what your comfortable with, i dont like being 16% . Also alot of the gains u don't want to give up are fat and water

**Cuz** · 12-27-2013, 07:38 PM

don't go over 15%

**mockery** · 12-27-2013, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

Its kinda what your comfortable with, i dont like being 16% . Also alot of the gains u don't want to give up are fat and water

fat and water is easy to drop if you are maximizing FFM gains. bothers me not to add 1:1 FFM to fat.

dont get sucked into this bro science dont cycle over 15% body fat. Its crap

**chaps** · 12-27-2013, 07:52 PM

So you think I should stay the course? I think theres another 10lbs in my cycle at least if I keep eating the way I do. I also know for a fact whenever I stop eating over maintenance I seem to drop 5lbs over night.

The way I see it, I am on course to bulk up to around 190-195, and then after I finish my PCT I'd be spending the next 4 months to cut 15 lbs. Is this reasonable, or does it make more sense to dial down my calories now?

**Cuz** · 12-27-2013, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by mockery

fat and water is easy to drop if you are maximizing FFM gains. bothers me not to add 1:1 FFM to fat.

dont get sucked into this bro science dont cycle over 15% body fat. Its crap

Why would anybody want to go over 15% BF anyway? I know I wouldn't want to, are you saying its ok to be basically "fat" and cycle?

**Lunk1** · 12-27-2013, 07:53 PM

It's a personal choice. I think your muscle gained will be more sustainable if done slowly with minimum fat gained. Gaining a lot of fat on cycle just creates the yo-yo of cut and bulk.

**Lunk1** · 12-27-2013, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by chadcuz1985

Why would anybody want to go over 15% BF anyway? I know I wouldn't want to, are you saying its ok to be basically "fat" and cycle?

Not that I agree with the way Mockery puts it but not everyone wants to be 12% or less. I would love to sit at 16%-18%!

**chaps** · 12-27-2013, 08:19 PM

So I love the way I look at under 12%, but my lifts are always insanely stronger when I stay above 12%. I never know what to do.

**gixxerboy1** · 12-27-2013, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

It's a personal choice. I think your muscle gained will be more sustainable if done slowly with minimum fat gained. Gaining a lot of fat on cycle just creates the yo-yo of cut and bulk.

i agree, and personally never got the concept of adding fat to cut it latter. So you bulk for 12 weeks pct wait then cut. so it takes you half a year to bulk and cut. i rather just add lean mass slowly

**mockery** · 12-28-2013, 01:08 AM

its as easy as 1-2-3

muscle is hard to build, fat is easy to lose. your 18% bf comp wont be the same as the next guys bf comp.

maximizing muscle gain is whats important, the majority of the people on this board are skinny or wanna have that surfer beach body. that's fine, i am not hating. But those who compete and are serious about muscle gain have no issue taking on some fat. that's what contest prep is for.

U ask stage athletes that have to do fitness modeling, have to guest pose and have to do sponsorship booth events so they have to stay lean year round. Ask them what they want... they will tell you " mate i wish i could bulk cause i need to get bigger for the nationals or for this event"

18% body fat isnt fat 15% body fat isnt fat and having a set number for giving advice dont cycle over 15% bf is silly when every fvcking person is different and has different needs.

i could cycle at 20% body fat gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.

on top of that too many people are thick or too cheap to go get proper body scans done, using bmi scales or a calculator online, calipers by a PT who is 18 and did a 3 week course. SO they have no idea about bodyfat % and using pictures of people at body fat % this or that is painfully wrong as well.

If you have spent 4-5 months... heck a year dieting down the proper way then all the power to you to cycle while lean, having abs year round is great. not everyone starts that way. BIG GUYS GET BIG FROM EATING BIG , expect my best friend he grows muscle from thin air aside from that, If you actually had proper body scans added cardio and trained hard enough you would gain muscle and lose fat.

**chaps** · 12-28-2013, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by mockery

its as easy as 1-2-3

muscle is hard to build, fat is easy to lose. your 18% bf comp wont be the same as the next guys bf comp.

maximizing muscle gain is whats important, the majority of the people on this board are skinny or wanna have that surfer beach body. that's fine, i am not hating. But those who compete and are serious about muscle gain have no issue taking on some fat. that's what contest prep is for.

U ask stage athletes that have to do fitness modeling, have to guest pose and have to do sponsorship booth events so they have to stay lean year round. Ask them what they want... they will tell you " mate i wish i could bulk cause i need to get bigger for the nationals or for this event"

18% body fat isnt fat 15% body fat isnt fat and having a set number for giving advice dont cycle over 15% bf is silly when every fvcking person is different and has different needs.

i could cycle at 20% body fat gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.

on top of that too many people are thick or too cheap to go get proper body scans done, using bmi scales or a calculator online, calipers by a PT who is 18 and did a 3 week course. SO they have no idea about bodyfat % and using pictures of people at body fat % this or that is painfully wrong as well.

If you have spent 4-5 months... heck a year dieting down the proper way then all the power to you to cycle while lean, having abs year round is great. not everyone starts that way. BIG GUYS GET BIG FROM EATING BIG , expect my best friend he grows muscle from thin air aside from that, If you actually had proper body scans added cardio and trained hard enough you would gain muscle and lose fat.

Thanks for this, I think this is the advice I was looking for. I'm go to stay the course and keep bulking like I have been. Thinking about it, the bigger I get my muscles now the easier fat loss will be afterwards, and losing fat has never been hard for me anyways (well, getting down to around 12%, beyond that I seem to lose alot of strength). I'm also sure as hell not going to gain muscle when I start cutting, so might as well get as much to start with as I can.

**Cuz** · 12-28-2013, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by mockery

its as easy as 1-2-3

muscle is hard to build, fat is easy to lose. your 18% bf comp wont be the same as the next guys bf comp.

maximizing muscle gain is whats important, the majority of the people on this board are skinny or wanna have that surfer beach body. that's fine, i am not hating. But those who compete and are serious about muscle gain have no issue taking on some fat. that's what contest prep is for.

U ask stage athletes that have to do fitness modeling, have to guest pose and have to do sponsorship booth events so they have to stay lean year round. Ask them what they want... they will tell you " mate i wish i could bulk cause i need to get bigger for the nationals or for this event"

18% body fat isnt fat 15% body fat isnt fat and having a set number for giving advice dont cycle over 15% bf is silly when every fvcking person is different and has different needs.

i could cycle at 20% body fat gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.

on top of that too many people are thick or too cheap to go get proper body scans done, using bmi scales or a calculator online, calipers by a PT who is 18 and did a 3 week course. SO they have no idea about bodyfat % and using pictures of people at body fat % this or that is painfully wrong as well.

If you have spent 4-5 months... heck a year dieting down the proper way then all the power to you to cycle while lean, having abs year round is great. not everyone starts that way. BIG GUYS GET BIG FROM EATING BIG , expect my best friend he grows muscle from thin air aside from that, If you actually had proper body scans added cardio and trained hard enough you would gain muscle and lose fat.

yes, 18% IS FAT, get over it.

**ickythump** · 12-28-2013, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by chadcuz1985

yes, 18% IS FAT, get over it.

I disagree, I've seen 18% +/- on me plenty and never considered it fat in honesty but I call myself fat as I don't consider myself trim until much lower than that, but if you were on the beach and started calling me a fat slob I would be very very very confused, that percentage on me still has my arms and legs and back pretty ripped just not my stomach or love handles

Either way, op wanted to hear what he wanted to hear so idk why he posted anything at all then, dead thread

**Lunk1** · 12-28-2013, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by chadcuz1985

yes, 18% IS FAT, get over it.

Fuk! I'm morbidly obese!

**Cuz** · 12-28-2013, 12:02 PM

well, lunk im not disrespecting you or op dont take that way buddy. I understand we all have different goals. I myself considered am borderline, but in bodybuilding which is what im wanting to do, ive always been told to keep your bf in control. hope I didnt offend anyone, my statement of dont go over 15% was just personal preference and opinion, I guess I need to realize not everyone want to be a competitive bb

**Igifuno** · 12-28-2013, 01:21 PM

It is most definitely a personal choice as well as body type/metabolism, etc... Many factors come into play including goals.

Also, OP, I think it's important you know the variables associated with bulking and cutting as it relates to diet (TDEE and macronutrients) and your goals. This was just discussed the other day in a thread, but many seem to think its best to 'cut' immediately after a 'bulk' but then aren't happy with the net LBM gained from their cycle.

It's may be better to eat clean and bulk for a longer period of time (don't mistake this with cycling for a long period of time as you do t need to be on cycle to bulk). This way you can gain true LBM, and although the overall weight gain will be at a slower rate, you have a better opportunity to keep your bf% lower in the process and therefore won't feel the 'need to cut' right after a bulk.

**mockery** · 12-28-2013, 08:47 PM

The ONLY Reason to give advice not to cycle at high body fat, would be the impact the the gear + being out of shape have on your heart, not so much during the cycle but the damaged caused that will show it self later down the road.

**Lunk1** · 12-28-2013, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by chadcuz1985

well, lunk im not disrespecting you or op dont take that way buddy. I understand we all have different goals. I myself considered am borderline, but in bodybuilding which is what im wanting to do, ive always been told to keep your bf in control. hope I didnt offend anyone, my statement of dont go over 15% was just personal preference and opinion, I guess I need to realize not everyone want to be a competitive bb

No worries buddy. I'm just making a point that 8% isn't everyone's goal. Not everyone desires to compete. I personally would never want to be under 12%..EVER. Not enough balance in life for me at that point.

**mockery** · 12-28-2013, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by chadcuz1985

well, lunk im not disrespecting you or op dont take that way buddy. I understand we all have different goals. I myself considered am borderline, but in bodybuilding which is what im wanting to do, ive always been told to keep your bf in control. hope I didnt offend anyone, my statement of dont go over 15% was just personal preference and opinion, I guess I need to realize not everyone want to be a competitive bb

have you seen most bodybuilders off season? heavy weight and super heavy weight? they are well above 15% off season.

sure frank zane wouldnt go over 10% his stage weight of season, but he also wasn't a very large guy.

There is online bodybuilding approaches and real life bodybuilding approaches. And they really are different. Good example is people taking time off between cycles you wont grow or keep mass like that "online approach" staying on for 8 months then doing 16 week heavy contest prep then coming off for 2 months rinse and repeat "offline approach"

**ickythump** · 12-29-2013, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by mockery

have you seen most bodybuilders off season? heavy weight and super heavy weight? they are well above 15% off season.

sure frank zane wouldnt go over 10% his stage weight of season, but he also wasn't a very large guy.

There is online bodybuilding approaches and real life bodybuilding approaches. And they really are different. Good example is people taking time off between cycles you wont grow or keep mass like that "online approach" staying on for 8 months then doing 16 week heavy contest prep then coming off for 2 months rinse and repeat "offline approach"

Sorry if I'm just not down with the lingo but what does that last bit mean?