AI and Caber yearround

[XxAndreaxX]

Want to know if it could give some negative sides to be on low dose AI (stane) and Caber yearround. I know there are people who are actually doing it. My question is, if I discontinue the use of AI and Caber, will I have the opposite effect?? Will I end up with higher prolactine and estro?

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Why do people take Caber year round?

[XxAndreaxX]

caber seems to be some kind of Premium viagra, and AI, seems to higher test producction, maybe because the lack of estro??

[clarky.]

caber seems to be some kind of Premium viagra, and AI, seems to higher test producction, maybe because the lack of estro??

I've never heard of ppl using these two drugs for what you state. People on trt use a AI yes but not just a AI on it's own and caber for a hard on ?.

[XxAndreaxX]

caber will let you jerk off and go on doing it without any pause. Your Wood will still depend on your brain, but you won't have any physical obstacles. I used it for a while, at 0,5 E3D even outside the cycle and it Works wonders.

[MuscleInk]

caber will let you jerk off and go on doing it without any pause. Your Wood will still depend on your brain, but you won't have any physical obstacles. I used it for a while, at 0,5 E3D even outside the cycle and it Works wonders.

So abusing a dopamine agonist to prolong erections and reduce refractory periods is justifiable in your mind?

Come on. If you want to experiment with your dopaminergic system, go right ahead, but lets not advocate this kind of unnecessary abuse of drugs on here!!!!

[< <Samson> >]

Why do people take Caber year round?

Because I have been on tren the whole time


Otherwise bro, no - no point at all


Even if you drop the caber, the prolonged nut effect will last for a long time. Last time I got off tren for a month or so I stopped the caber - Nothing changed

[michael30]

If you want better erections why not just use cialis or viagra? I would think it would be better for your health and give you the same effects.

[< <Samson> >]

If you want better erections why not just use cialis or viagra? I would think it would be better for your health and give you the same effects.

It has nothing to do with getting erections directly - Just how long you can hold off

[Docd187123]

So abusing a dopamine agonist to prolong erections and reduce refractory periods is justifiable in your mind?

Come on. If you want to experiment with your dopaminergic system, go right ahead, but lets not advocate this kind of unnecessary abuse of drugs on here!!!!

MuscleInk, have you heard about or have any information on DAWS or dopamine agonist withdrawal syndrome? The FDA site and clinical trials state it's possible to get withdrawal like symptoms after immediate cessation of DA. There's a lot of secondhand reports on many different forums but nothing I'd consider conclusive. What are your thoughts about this? Is it something that only happens with chronic use, is it even something to be concerned about?

[MuscleInk]

MuscleInk, have you heard about or have any information on DAWS or dopamine agonist withdrawal syndrome? The FDA site and clinical trials state it's possible to get withdrawal like symptoms after immediate cessation of DA. There's a lot of secondhand reports on many different forums but nothing I'd consider conclusive. What are your thoughts about this? Is it something that only happens with chronic use, is it even something to be concerned about?

Yes it's been a concern for me and many fellow neurologists who have/had used DAs in the past for a variety of conditions. The prevalence and variability of DAWS across patient populations has prompted many in the community to seek alternate therapies and use DAs judiciously. The biggest issues with DAWS is that the effects are wide ranging but highly variable - some patients have mild DAWS symptoms, others have more severe symptoms which can last for years once DAs are discontinued.

Unfortunately when the symptoms do emerge (see below), most remedies involved further pharmacological therapies to treat these symptoms.

The more common symptoms of DAWS are:
- anxiety/depression
- agitation
- hyperpyrexia (elevated temp)
- hypotension
- generalized pain
- nausea
- diaphoresis

It is believed that over stimulation of DA1 receptors of the ventral tegmentum and nucleus accumbens are partially involved in DAWS.

Rare cases include suicidal ideation but this is far less common.

Pramipexole and pergolide are bigger concerns however.

[Docd187123]

Yes it's been a concern for me and many fellow neurologists who have/had used DAs in the past for a variety of conditions. The prevalence and variability of DAWS across patient populations has prompted many in the community to seek alternate therapies and use DAs judiciously. The biggest issues with DAWS is that the effects are wide ranging but highly variable - some patients have mild DAWS symptoms, others have more severe symptoms which can last for years once DAs are discontinued.

Unfortunately when the symptoms do emerge (see below), most remedies involved further pharmacological therapies to treat these symptoms.

The more common symptoms of DAWS are:
- anxiety/depression
- agitation
- hyperpyrexia (elevated temp)
- hypotension
- generalized pain
- nausea
- diaphoresis

It is believed that over stimulation of DA1 receptors of the ventral tegmentum and nucleus accumbens are partially involved in DAWS.

Rare cases include suicidal ideation but this is far less common.

Pramipexole and pergolide are bigger concerns however.

Perfect this is exactly what I'm looking for, thank you very much!

So in your opinion, using a dopamine agonist while on cycle should only be done if PRL is elevated? I always read about people running them anyway regardless of PRL levels and I used to think it was no big deal until I heard about this.

What further pharmacological therapies would be used to treat this? There's nothing OTC that can take their place?

And finally, you say pramiprexole and pergolide are bigger concerns...is this bc prami (and I assume pergolide) activate D1 receptors as well as D2, and D3? I believe caber only activates D2 and 3? If you were to require the use of a DA, which would be your first choice?

[Ashop]

Want to know if it could give some negative sides to be on low dose AI (stane) and Caber yearround. I know there are people who are actually doing it. My question is, if I discontinue the use of AI and Caber, will I have the opposite effect?? Will I end up with higher prolactine and estro?

I think anything taken too long can end up going stale or even counter productive.

[kelkel]

I'll add to this conversation that using caber on cycle (19-Nor) is fine but IMHO guys use way too much unnecessarily. Using .5mg two or 3 times per week is over-kill. .25 x 2 per week will adequately crush any prolactin issues. Save your money.

[Buster Brown]

I'll add to this conversation that using caber on cycle (19-Nor) is fine but IMHO guys use way too much unnecessarily. Using .5mg two or 3 times per week is over-kill. .25 x 2 per week will adequately crush any prolactin issues. Save your money.

Sounds good to me

[MuscleInk]

Perfect this is exactly what I'm looking for, thank you very much!

So in your opinion, using a dopamine agonist while on cycle should only be done if PRL is elevated? I always read about people running them anyway regardless of PRL levels and I used to think it was no big deal until I heard about this.

What further pharmacological therapies would be used to treat this? There's nothing OTC that can take their place?

And finally, you say pramiprexole and pergolide are bigger concerns...is this bc prami (and I assume pergolide) activate D1 receptors as well as D2, and D3? I believe caber only activates D2 and 3? If you were to require the use of a DA, which would be your first choice?

Anytime I run a DA its always caber for the reasons you've cited and I tolerate it better. I use the same protocol Kel uses but many times I hardly run a DA because I'd sooner crush my E2 than run a DA - and I've never crushed my E2 (yet).

As far as symptomatic management of DAWS, often it's good old anti-psychotics for agitation, anxiety, or depression or anti-emetics for nausea.

[MuscleInk]

I'll add to this conversation that using caber on cycle (19-Nor) is fine but IMHO guys use way too much unnecessarily. Using .5mg two or 3 times per week is over-kill. .25 x 2 per week will adequately crush any prolactin issues. Save your money.

The student has become the teacher! I'm gonna retire now!

[Docd187123]

Anytime I run a DA its always caber for the reasons you've cited and I tolerate it better. I use the same protocol Kel uses but many times I hardly run a DA because I'd sooner crush my E2 than run a DA - and I've never crushed my E2 (yet).

As far as symptomatic management of DAWS, often it's good old anti-psychotics for agitation, anxiety, or depression or anti-emetics for nausea.

It is my understanding or belief that it's not necessarily 19-nors that elevate prolactin on some cycles. It may be elevated estrogen stimulating "prolactin secretion by disrupting inhibitory influence of dopamine". This is why it's advised to manage estradiol properly first and foremost in the fight against prolactin but what I'm asking is, is it the cause too? I've seen several studies,not greet ones, but they all lead me to believe any aromatizing compound can stimulate prolactin production?

[kelkel]

The student has become the teacher! I'm gonna retire now!

Pay me enough and I'll work for you.

[Docd187123]

Pay me enough and I'll work for you.

I'll go get my debit card if you show me how to get vascularity like you with no cardio

[XxAndreaxX]

ok so its not a very good Idea take a DA yearround.... and taking an AI (stane) yearround??

[Docd187123]

ok so its not a very good Idea take a DA yearround.... and taking an AI (stane) yearround??

Taking an AI year round probably isn't as bad as taking a DA year round but for what reason and goal/purpose? I still wouldn't recommend it.

PDE-5 inhibitors are cheap from RC companies. If you want a premium Viagra.....look into Cialis.

Yes AI's increase testosterone levels but do so SLIGHTLY and to no/little degree of clinical significance.

[ironbeck]

I think anything taken too long can end up going stale or even counter productive.

Very good common sense advise that goes for everything in life in general!

[ironbeck]

It is my understanding or belief that it's not necessarily 19-nors that elevate prolactin on some cycles. It may be elevated estrogen stimulating "prolactin secretion by disrupting inhibitory influence of dopamine". This is why it's advised to manage estradiol properly first and foremost in the fight against prolactin but what I'm asking is, is it the cause too? I've seen several studies,not greet ones, but they all lead me to believe any aromatizing compound can stimulate prolactin production?

I'm a firm believer in strict estrogen control for overall health.

[Docd187123]

I'm a firm believer in strict estrogen control for overall health.

My question is geared more towards the aromatization process promoting prolactin secretion, have you any thoughts on the topic?

Generally I advise estrogen control as well but being more of a strength athlete than a physique one, I prefer highER estrogen than most for myself lol.

[ironbeck]

I believe with proper estro control prami or caber is not needed(unless gyno prone). I prefer lower estro on the spectrum myself, being on trt and running cycles I'm thinking about long term usage and the estrogen related issues over extended period of time. You could say I'm paranoid of estr0 lol. My problem is keeping enough in my system for normal functions.

[kelkel]

I'll go get my debit card if you show me how to get vascularity like you with no cardio

If I knew how, I'd share. They're just there.