Too much AI?

**abvansic** · 06-04-2014, 09:15 PM

Is there such thing as too much AI on cycle? I want good gains but not at the risk of bad issues post PCT so I have been taking aromosin every day at 25 mg.

Taking a blend of Test E/Test P/Tren E. 750 Test E/350 Test P/350 Tren E a week.

I have heard that estrogen isnt necessarily required for gains on cycle because it is the product of synthetic test but could I be supressing too much estrogen? I have seen others run Aromasin at 25 mg every three days.

Thanks for your help.

**MuscleInk** · 06-04-2014, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by abvansic

Is there such thing as too much AI on cycle? I want good gains but not at the risk of bad issues post PCT so I have been taking aromosin every day at 25 mg. Taking a blend of Test E/Test P/Tren E. 750 Test E/350 Test P/350 Tren E a week. I have heard that estrogen isnt necessarily required for gains on cycle because it is the product of synthetic test but could I be supressing too much estrogen? I have seen others run Aromasin at 25 mg every three days. Thanks for your help.

If you crash your E, you'll know. It's unpleasant BUT better to keep your E low than risk cardiovascular threats with high E.

**SEOINAGE** · 06-04-2014, 10:40 PM

I dunno, the times I have crashed my E, I might as well have threw any chance of making any progress out the window. I never did it too horribly, since I was able to drop ai and start to have improvements in two weeks, and after a month or so feeling back on par. but you are taking aromasin , I don't know if you bounce back from that as well, since it is killing aromatase enzyme. I've also had better gains and felt better with my E2 range in the 30s and even 40s over the 20s, just my preference.

**MuscleInk** · 06-04-2014, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

I dunno, the times I have crashed my E, I might as well have threw any chance of making any progress out the window. I never did it too horribly, since I was able to drop ai and start to have improvements in two weeks, and after a month or so feeling back on par. but you are taking aromasin, I don't know if you bounce back from that as well, since it is killing aromatase enzyme. I've also had better gains and felt better with my E2 range in the 30s and even 40s over the 20s, just my preference.

Correct. I force crashed my E once so I'd have first hand experience of the symptoms and signs. Never again. I felt like I had been run over by a truck several times and dragged behind it another couple hundred miles. No bueno.

**< <Samson> >** · 06-04-2014, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

I felt like I had been run over by a truck several times and dragged behind it another couple hundred miles. No bueno.

Lmao

That is the exact feeling

It's like all energy is gone from the body

**Buster Brown** · 06-05-2014, 12:02 AM

You will def know if u crash your e2. It feels like the life has been sucked out of u. I would run the aromasin at 12.5 daily due to it's half life in men. Excellent older thread around about aromasin that jimmyinkedup started a year or so ago that sheds a lot of light on that AI.

**Back In Black** · 06-05-2014, 01:14 AM

Over 1g of test a week, is that right?

What's your cycle history and stats?

**NACH3** · 06-05-2014, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

You will def know if u crash your e2. It feels like the life has been sucked out of u. I would run the aromasin at 12.5 daily due to it's half life in men. Excellent older thread around about aromasin that jimmyinkedup started a year or so ago that sheds a lot of light on that AI.

X 2 if not 25 mgs ed... Read sticky about " Aromasin the Underdosed AI...

**jimmyinkedup** · 06-05-2014, 07:42 AM

OP you can but I dont think you have to worry about. Here is a link to a read a couple posters referred too in the thread. I hope it helps yo understand. Exemestane-The Underdosed AI

**KBD** · 06-05-2014, 08:29 AM

A lot of these posts are blown seriously out of proportion. You'll just feel kind of tired, low sex drive, not death like everyone makes it out to be, it won't affect your gains if your caloric intake is high. But it is essential for sex drive and other things such as healthy bones etc.

**SEOINAGE** · 06-05-2014, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by KBD

A lot of these posts are blown seriously out of proportion. You'll just feel kind of tired, low sex drive, not death like everyone makes it out to be, it won't affect your gains if your caloric intake is high. But it is essential for sex drive and other things such as healthy bones etc.

Being unable to blow a load, and inability to perform in gym is pretty serious for gains!

**KBD** · 06-05-2014, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

Being unable to blow a load, and inability to perform in gym is pretty serious for gains!

Yeah but high estrogen causes the same issue. Tren causes the same shit people can't breathe or sleep but they workout anyways. Tren sides are worse than low e2

**SEOINAGE** · 06-05-2014, 09:28 AM

I was getting 3 hours of sleep every night, and getting stronger and performing really well in training, with a calorie deficit. The three hours of sleep didn't hurt progress at all compared to crashed e2. I mean you don't want high estrogen either. I'd much rather make sure whatever I am doing I can perform to my near fullest unless it is a short bout of a prime where I have hardly any calories or carbs.

**DontTaseMeBro** · 06-05-2014, 01:13 PM

For me, its best to start on a lower dose of AI for the first 2 weeks and then move up to the the full dose. Last cycle, I started Exemastane at 12.5 twice a day and I felt like hell. I cut it back to 12.5 once a day for a couple of weeks and then went back to 12.5 twice a day without problems. I theorize that by starting at the higher dose, I lowered my E2 before it ever got elevated. Blood work at mid cycle showed 12.5 twice a day was the correct dose. E2 was up, but only slightly and was definitely in range.

**MuscleInk** · 06-05-2014, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by KBD

A lot of these posts are blown seriously out of proportion. You'll just feel kind of tired, low sex drive, not death like everyone makes it out to be, it won't affect your gains if your caloric intake is high. But it is essential for sex drive and other things such as healthy bones etc.

Ok, if you want the actual clinical symptoms....
- myalgia
- arthralgia
- alopecia (rare)
- lethargy
- somnolence

These are the most common clinically manifested hallmarks. Better now?

**jimmyinkedup** · 06-05-2014, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by KBD

Yeah but high estrogen causes the same issue. Tren causes the same shit people can't breathe or sleep but they workout anyways. Tren sides are worse than low e2

Not for me. Everyone gets and handles sides differently man. For me low e2 sucked bad. Way worse than night sweats and any other tren side. My joints were literally killing me. MY hips, my hands, I felt horrible, no energy at all, sexual sides, it was way worse than any tren sides i ever experienced and I dont wanna go there again. The other thing that sucked is it took weeks to get it back to where it needed to be. Maybe when your older and have more time and xpeience in this game you will feel differently. I have been doing this almost as long as you have been on this earth and one thing ive learned you thoughts and opinions will change a lot. What you think is fact now, 4 years from now you may realize was completely wrong.Also you learnb a lot and you realize in addition to the sides you notice there are others going on in your body that may be a hell of a lot more serius than those you see and feel. So you tend to get a little wiser over time and take all things into consideration. Its not necessarily a bad thing.

**MuscleInk** · 06-05-2014, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

Not for me. Everyone gets and handles sides differently man. For me low e2 sucked bad. Way worse than night sweats and any other tren side. My joints were literally killing me. MY hips, my hands, I felt horrible, no energy at all, sexual sides, it was way worse than any tren sides i ever experienced and I dont wanna go there again. The other thing that sucked is it took weeks to get it back to where it needed to be. Maybe when your older and have more time and xpeience in this game you will feel differently. I have been doing this almost as long as you have been on this earth and one thing ive learned you thoughts and opinions will change a lot. What you think is fact now, 4 years from now you may realize was completely wrong.Also you learnb a lot and you realize in addition to the sides you notice there are others going on in your body that may be a hell of a lot more serius than those you see and feel. So you tend to get a little wiser over time and take all things into consideration. Its not necessarily a bad thing.

Agreed. My E2 hit 410 and I was asymptomatic. Not true when I crashed my E.

**probuild42** · 06-05-2014, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

Agreed. My E2 hit 410 and I was asymptomatic. Not true when I crashed my E.

Holy hell 410 and not a thing? I would have been crying my eyes out with every happy or sad thought, plus my nips itch like crazy.

**MuscleInk** · 06-05-2014, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by probuild42

Holy hell 410 and not a thing? I would have been crying my eyes out with every happy or sad thought, plus my nips itch like crazy.

No sir. Surprised the heck out of me. Hb was elevated, hematocrit elevated, pulse ox slightly down but no clinical symptoms (libido, appetite, erectile function all normal). PSA was 9.2 as well and yet no change to voiding patterns. Had I not run blood work at week 8, would have never known. I'm sure if I let it continue, the clinical symptoms would become noticeable quickly.

I dropped it quick though with letro. Brought PSA down to 3.2 by increasing Cialis.

**KBD** · 06-05-2014, 03:16 PM

I've already taken everything. Ive experienced it and tren sides are worse for me but like u said everyone's diff.

**probuild42** · 06-05-2014, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

No sir. Surprised the heck out of me. Hb was elevated, hematocrit elevated, pulse ox slightly down but no clinical symptoms (libido, appetite, erectile function all normal). PSA was 9.2 as well and yet no change to voiding patterns. Had I not run blood work at week 8, would have never known. I'm sure if I let it continue, the clinical symptoms would become noticeable quickly.

I dropped it quick though with letro. Brought PSA down to 3.2 by increasing Cialis.

Never had a high PSA. I've always been less then 1 on or off cycle. At 9.2 thats cancer screening levels. You would think the prostate would have been swoling too. I love cialis on so many different levels!

**probuild42** · 06-05-2014, 04:09 PM

My first cycle I crashed my e2 really, really bad for 2 weeks by overdosing my ai on accident. I felt really sick and tired. The joint pain was in the core of the joints vs high e2 my joints felt tight and burned. I had no problems with libido though. Actually my erections seemed harder, however it was difficult to finish the job.

It took me some time to figure out how to manage my e2. I seem pretty sensitive to e2, either high or low. I had to do bloodword several times and listen to my body before getting it in check. I also switched from adex to stane. I much prefer examastane (I feel it is much easier to manage e2 levels).

**MuscleInk** · 06-05-2014, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by probuild42

Never had a high PSA. I've always been less then 1 on or off cycle. At 9.2 thats cancer screening levels. You would think the prostate would have been swoling too. I love cialis on so many different levels!

Yes, PSA was too high. Prostate boggy on DRE. No TRUS ordered. Expected changes to urinary voiding were absent. 4 week BW after initial draw showed response to Cialis.