Safety First!!! A novices stack.

**F40** · 06-09-2003, 09:59 AM

I am a complete novice to AS and have been doing considerable research before I start my first stack. My number one priority is absolutely minimising side effects whilst maintaining the gains I get during my cycle.
I have a genetic predisposition to male pattern baldness and used to have bad skin.

Here is what I am thinking of:
Deca /Clomid/Clenbuterol .

Taking JUST deca on it's own. 8 weeks starting at 200 and building up to 350 before coming down again to 100mg in week 8. I want to keep the dosage low (is this what you would consider low?) to reduce side effects....
Clomid to bring my natural testosterone back as soon as possible whilst also acting as a mild anti-estrogen (100mg per day)
Clenbuterol to block the cortisone. (need a suggestion on dose......)

- So 8 weeks of Deca.
- At week 6 I will start Clomid and it will extend to week 10.
- At week 8 I will start Clen and do it for 2 weeks slowly trimming back the dosage.

I am already quite happy with what I have achieved with my body naturally - I would like to keep around 14lbs after everything is finished - is this a realistic aim - on the basis that I have a very good diet/rest/training regime.

P.S. Would Equi (perhaps at 250mg to 400mg) be better than Deca from a minimising side effects point of view?

**MBaraso** · 06-09-2003, 10:31 AM

I don't know who gave u this cycle idea but honestly your wasting your time IMO.
First of all if you run deca you need to run test along with it unless u don't wanna use ur dick.
2nd: you have to run deca for atleast 10 weeks to see good results IMO. third you don't have to pyrimid the dosage. You keep it constant throughout (300-400mgs per week)
And 4th: You don't need to start clomid for 3 weeks after your last shot.
Now if your looking for mimimum sides then you should go with Eq over Deca. Eq has very low side effects compared to deca, however you'd still wanna run Test along with the eq which can lead to some sides.
My suggestion to you would be:
Week 1-11 Test 500mgs
Week 1-10 Eq 400mgs
Clomid 2 weeks after last test shot.

**flexgolf** · 06-09-2003, 10:43 AM

whatever you dont...dont use the link 'cycles for the novice".

you want to minimize side effects?? deca dick is a side effect that you wont want. you need test with your cycle to help keep your cock working

**F40** · 06-09-2003, 10:47 AM

Thanks.

But please elaborate on the second line in your post.
I am thinking about Equi over deca and upping the dosage.

Are you implying that I simply won't gain anything from a purely deca cycle - (see novice cycles on this very website..).

Flexgolf - I've just seen your post!

What will deca do to my cock?

no seriously... It looks like I'm missing something pretty important.

**mammoth** · 06-09-2003, 10:52 AM

Running a anabolic at a very low dosage without adding a androgen is gonna put a bad taste in your mouth about gear. Its understandable that you wanna be safe and minimize sides however if you are that scared about the side effects then maybe you shouldn't be doing steroids period. Like MBaraso said, you more than likely are wasting your money. With Deca you should at 400mg/week minimum with no tapering. Next time, I would suggest that you save up your money and purchase a better stack. MBaraso gave you a good example of a beginner cycle. Good luck!

**MBaraso** · 06-09-2003, 10:54 AM

Those cycles are really outdated and need to be changed. The pyrimiding dosage thing is old school, reason being that was used to help your body come off the steriod so you wouldn't lose your gains. But w/ the use of clomid these days there's just no reason to do it.
You would gain off a deca cycle but chances are your dick won't be working too well but your dosage would need to be 300-400 per week. Plus Test should be the basis of any cycle.
And Like i said if your looking for low sides then I would suggest going w/ Eq over deca.
Bout the only side you'll get from Eq is that you'll be hungry all the time which IMO is good when your trying to gain mass.
As far as mass goes though, Eq isn't a mass building agent like deca is.
Eq gains are alot slower but they're lean keepable gains where deca gains are less of a lean gain.

**Lift Chief** · 06-09-2003, 12:43 PM

My suggestion:

Test only cycle

Test enanthate 400mg per week for 10 weeks... that's it.
Nolva on hand and clomid for post cycle therapy .
For retaining hair use propecia at 1mg ED.

**F40** · 06-09-2003, 01:25 PM

Off the back of your guys valuable feedback, I've looked up deca -dick (which I previously thought was sexual overstimulation - I now find out I lose my balls and have NO sex drive) which is the exact opposite of what I thought....
Looks like a deca-only cycle is not such a good idea...
Got to be deca+test...

I'm thinking Equi (500mg) for 10 weeks + clomid + clen . What is the longest 'safe' amount of time for equi?

Call me a pussy (I would agree with you) but I don't wanna do Test.... need to find out more... Is it essential??
I am a novice and I am not aiming for particularly extreme gains...

Thanks again for you help so far. PLEASE keep it coming.

F40.

P.S. I am currently 'designing' a stack - no commitments have been made so far and not $1.00 has been spent.

**halifaxsteve** · 06-09-2003, 01:35 PM

i strongly encourage you to use test...trust me. i didn't use it...making good gains, but dick not so happy, neither is the gf.

if you run deca 300-400mg/wk (or EQ) and test 500wk you won't have EXTREME gains...then again it depends on your body.

mentally, are you ready for a cycle? it sounds to me like you have a lot of fears/reservations....

**gundam675** · 06-09-2003, 01:44 PM

Call me a pussy (I would agree with you) but I don't wanna do Test.... need to find out more... Is it essential??
I am a novice and I am not aiming for particularly extreme gains...

lmfao dude ! if ur not aiming for extreme gains then why dont u just run like anavar or winstrol or primo. if u dont want side effects then wtf would u use AS at all ? use ur head man and stop being a knob. i am flamming becuz u make no sense. ur so convinced! dude i ran a crzy insane cycle 400mg deca for 10 weeks with 500 mg test for 10 weeks and 40 mg d-bol for 4 weeks, and i didnt get one side effect, i didnt even run an anti-estrogen until the 6th week or so ! no gyno, no nothing. run a test or ull be so sorry, this, as someone already stated, will do lilttle for u, and will put a bad taste about gear in ur mouth. i mean bro, im literraly laughing at the cycling u proposed. just go all the way or dont go at all. here is a light cycle that i propose for u:

deca: week 1 - 8: 300mg/ew
test enth: week 1 - 8: 250 mg/ew

clomid at end and since ur so worried run an anti-estrogen the whole way through. i still dont understand y u would not want big gains but ur using heavily anabolic substances. and deca only cycle, LOL, DO U HAVE A DICK ? shit man, if u do, u wont have it anymore after ur cycle... anyways man be happy and positive, and dont get angry at me, cause i am not angry at u.

best of luck ( ur gonna need it) !

**gundam675** · 06-09-2003, 01:46 PM

oh btw, imho i think test is essential cuase u asked it earlier. bro, trust us, these guys helped me out when i first came here proposing a d-bol only cycle, and after they helped me, i did a deca /sus/d-bol cycle.... they know what they are talkin about. Good luck !

**flexgolf** · 06-09-2003, 01:48 PM

id run EQ if u dont wanna do test. a mod told me your Eq wont effect your dick

**MBaraso** · 06-09-2003, 02:08 PM

mentally, are you ready for a cycle? it sounds to me like you have a lot of fears/reservations....

I agree w/ Halif. It sounds like your not really mentally ready to start using AS.
Side effects are part of this game. If your not willing to except them then maybe AS isn't for you.
The use of test in a cycle is very important IMO.

**F40** · 06-09-2003, 03:56 PM

Guys.... when it comes to me there is no such thing as flaming.
All your advice is (no matter how crudely put

) is appreciated...
Keep the flames coming.... I need to learn....

Yes I am scared.... yes I am NOT mentally prepared. Fear is definitely part of the equation... and that's the reason I'm here.

I will NOT be using deca alone - thanks for the insight.

I WOULD like extreme gains but I am soo scared of side effects... perhaps too scared.
Thanks guys...

Final (rather irritating) question. I'm trying to get concensus.... Gundam and Baraso, do you guys agree with Flexgolf.... would it be possible to use Equi without test safely and effectively.
PLEASE bear in mind that I am not insistent on NOT using test - I just want to educate myself...

Flamesuit on guys.... your help so far has really been noted - do keep it coming.
Thank you...

***JohnnyB*** · 06-09-2003, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by Lift Chief
My suggestion:

Test only cycle

Test enanthate 400mg per week for 10 weeks... that's it.
Nolva on hand and clomid for post cycle therapy .
For retaining hair use propecia at 1mg ED.

This is the first cycle you need to do. Do some more research, if your going to juice you need to go with test. Test should be the base of any cycle, do waste your virgin receptors on any other drug but test.

JohnnyB

**unoigo** · 06-09-2003, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by F40
Guys.... when it comes to me there is no such thing as flaming.
All your advice is (no matter how crudely put ) is appreciated...
Keep the flames coming.... I need to learn....

I am basically in the same boat as you knowledge wise. As far as the sides, we just have to deal with it.

Bro's, from what I understand, test should be involved period. Got that covered. Does it matter which type........enan, cyp, sus? Or does that depend on how many times one would like to inject? I've got some Dbol , anavar and clen lying around and am just trying to figure out what injectable to add to it. I am trying to put together a moderate beginners cycle for lean mass. Not really looking for the huge bloated, dull look. Any thoughts?

***Billy_Bathgate*** · 06-09-2003, 06:24 PM

Any steroid (except possibly var, primo, maybe andriol at low doses) will shut down your body. What I mean is your body produces no testosterone .

Now imagine you do a cycle, whether its winstrol , eq, or deca ALONE. You will have NO test in your body. Think about that.

This is why test is essential to every cycle, even a low 200mg/wk for replacement.

Withouht it, possible complications include, but not limited to, depression, lethargy, sexual dysfunction.

**flexgolf** · 06-09-2003, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by Billy_Bathgate
Any steroid (except possibly var, primo, maybe andriol at low doses) will shut down your body. What I mean is your body produces no testosterone .

Now imagine you do a cycle, whether its winstrol , eq, or deca ALONE. You will have NO test in your body. Think about that.

This is why test is essential to every cycle, even a low 200mg/wk for replacement.

Withouht it, possible complications include, but not limited to, depression, lethargy, sexual dysfunction.

isnt it true that different gear reduces your test production by varying amounts?

**Buschlightcan** · 06-09-2003, 09:45 PM

All i can say is that i have ran some heavy cycles and i have never once expiernced a side effect other than slight acne on my arms and i mean slight. Find a good cycle to run by disscussing it with bros here and then lift up your skirt grab your balls and lets rock!

***Billy_Bathgate*** · 06-10-2003, 02:00 AM

Originally posted by flexgolf

isnt it true that different gear reduces your test production by varying amounts?

eventually they all can shut you down to nothing.

But some do it faster and harder. Deca and tren for one are some of the hardest. It has to do with aromatation and receptor affinity. I couldnt make a direct list in order though, only guesses from experience and others feedback. Var and Primo are at the bottom of that list though.

**flexgolf** · 06-10-2003, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by Billy_Bathgate

eventually they all can shut you down to nothing.

But some do it faster and harder. Deca and tren for one are some of the hardest. It has to do with aromatation and receptor affinity. I couldnt make a direct list in order though, only guesses from experience and others feedback. Var and Primo are at the bottom of that list though.

thanx for the help...so basically gear which aromatizes less will suppress you less..correct?

**UltimateFighter** · 06-10-2003, 11:38 AM

hey bro on the other hand I did deca only 400mg for 8 weeks for my first cycle and BLEW UP. I gained about 25 pounds with no sides.

**F40** · 06-10-2003, 01:09 PM

From the advice here so far I am thinking of:

10 weeks.
Test En: 200mg
Equi: 400mg
Clomid

Equi to keep sides down... Test at 200mg to act *purely* as replacement...Perhaps the dose could be lower/higher...

Your thoughts dudes.

**nj juice** · 06-10-2003, 03:17 PM

IMO i think you should do:

Eq- 400mg wk 1-10
Test E @ 500mg wk 1-10
clomid therapy after

If the only reason why your scared of taking test is side effects, just err on the side of caution, and take a anti-e like nolvadex - or whatever you can get, anti-e's are so easy to find and buy. Take it everyday if you really feel the need to, although i would just keep it on hand just in case.

If your going to commit to taking test, you might as well go all out and take it the right way. Whats the worst that could happen, you'll get bigger? lol

**Gettin'Old** · 06-10-2003, 03:36 PM

Bro, I agree with the posts above but will share my 2 cents. I was also very worried about the sides, like you are. But, who isn't. I took the plunge and am concluding a low dose test only cycle. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT. Listen to JohnnyB and the others. I did test only at 300mg/week (just bumped it up the last two shots) and at that lower dose alone I achieved tremendous gains. Libido went through the roof. My wife is still in hiding as we speak!

I noted you are particularly worried about hair loss. So was I. This is an issue with test, but a controllable one for the most part. At low doses I don't think you will have much of a problem. I did notice significant hair loss, even at that low dose however. Having said that, I simply ordered up some nizoral shampoo, some topical minoxidil and spironolactone and it totally took care of the problem.

Go with the test for your first cycle bro. You will be glad you did.