Gyno or high bf?? Please help!!

**rusty_1989** · 06-14-2014, 03:04 PM

Can you please advise if you think this gyno or just high body fat.. I'm sure I can feel a lump behind left nipple but may be paranoid..

Been taking 20mg nolva per day during cycle but not noticed any reduction in puffiness.

Stats:

5ft 11"
195lbs
BF 22%

Finished test 400 deca 3 weeks ago, in middle of PCT now. Nolva and Clomid

40/40/20/20
100/100/50/50

Also taking 400mg vit b6.

Any advice would be great!

**Back In Black** · 06-14-2014, 03:11 PM

Honestly? I'd say you were carrying way too much fat to tell. Way too much fat to cycle/have cycled safely too. Are we looking at before and after cycle?

**austinite** · 06-14-2014, 03:14 PM

High bf for sure. Gyno... No telling from the pics.

**rusty_1989** · 06-14-2014, 03:18 PM

Bf used to be 28% after bulk, been on cut for 2 weeks now so seeing some real progress.. Only thing is the more bf I lose, the more prominent it becomes. Paranoid about the puffiness also

. U reckon if I get to maybe 10/12% bf, it will tighten chest up? Spoke to doc and she said not to worry, if I want 2nd opinion they will send me for ultrasound.

**Cuz** · 06-14-2014, 03:20 PM

Ur bodyfat is over 25%..to answer your question I'm not sure. You won't know until you drop some fat.

I advise not for you to cycle anymore until you can drop a lot of fat to prevent any future problem

**rusty_1989** · 06-14-2014, 03:22 PM

Thanks cuz.. Not planning any cycles until I get this under control, especially my body fat.. Macros and diet is in check now and hitting HIIT 4 times per week aswell as my usual weight lifting program. Do you think much point taking letro or adex now or wait until bf drops?

**rusty_1989** · 06-14-2014, 05:03 PM

Also, I know ppl say no lump, no gyno.. I have a few lumps u see each nipple, could this be fat as it is not painful at all, just puffy nipples. It feels like a doughnut shaped bit of fat, would this be the start of gyno?

Thanks for any advice you can give

**Buster Brown** · 06-14-2014, 05:26 PM

Well....... As you have heard, BF is way too high to begin with. How did they look before you cycled? Were they puffy?...sometimes? If you do feel a lump that is hard and pea like that is the beginning of gyno. Did you run an AI on cycle?

**rusty_1989** · 06-15-2014, 03:18 AM

No, we're not this puffy before cycle. Was always quite high in bf.. I feel lumps but really cannot tell the difference between this and fat.. Feels like the fat around my stomach? I have been on nolva 20mg ed on cycle, no ai. I know I should have used one but never had any issues with E2. Always used nolva on cycle and for PCT and been fine. What is protocol now?

**Back In Black** · 06-15-2014, 04:09 AM

Increased risk of gyno cycling at a high bodyfat. I empathise with your predicament in terms of possible gyno though.

Why are you cutting in PCT? Whatever muscle gains you may have made on cycle are gonna be pissed away.

No offence Rusty but you really need to educate yourself before you hurt yourself.

**lovbyts** · 06-15-2014, 04:16 AM

I dont get it although I see it all the time. Why do people cycle when their body fat is high? It's like running high octane racing fuel in a stock Ford Escort with 200,000 miles on it? What do you gain? Nothing except the probability of burning up the engine sooner. Your wasting your money and doing more harm than good. You would have had the same results if not better with fat loss with zero worries not doing a cycle.

STOP using aas until you get your body fat down under 15% and a decent base.

**rusty_1989** · 06-15-2014, 05:05 AM

I know I need to educate myself, I'm forever reading threads on everything g related I aas but soo many different views opinions etc.. Now should I start letro or any other ai now to see if this helps the puffiness or just rid it out and finish PCT? Well I need I cut like mad due to excess bf and also need to finish proper PCT hence why cutting on PCT. Previous gains mean nothing to me and would rather get on top of these nips before more serious!

**lovbyts** · 06-15-2014, 05:35 AM

No dont start letro or anything to fight gyno. You will just be adding fuel to the fire messing with your hormones more. I would say 99% chance you dont have gyno but if you keep going down this path you might soon enough.

Finish/do a proper PCT, get into the nutrition section and work out a proper diet.

**PBJtime** · 06-15-2014, 07:59 AM

My question is ,

This is your first cycle right ?

What were your dosages of test with deca ?

Again , educate yourself on AAS next time and drop your BF with LOTS of cardio and nutrition before you do another cycle . AAS is not something to take lightly bro !! Spend your money on AI's and maybe some Raloxifene in case something does come up .

**rusty_1989** · 06-15-2014, 09:21 AM

Ok, well already stared PCT so will finish this and get proper diet and work out plan sorted..

400mg test, 300mg deca for 10 weeks. 20mg nolva per day and 400mg vit b6 per day.

Done same cycle about 4 years ago and then got bad injury and had to get surgery on arm.. Was out of training for a good 14 months.

**gearbox** · 06-15-2014, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by rusty_1989

Ok, well already stared PCT so will finish this and get proper diet and work out plan sorted..

400mg test, 300mg deca for 10 weeks. 20mg nolva per day and 400mg vit b6 per day.

Done same cycle about 4 years ago and then got bad injury and had to get surgery on arm.. Was out of training for a good 14 months.

it will be at least 8 months before you get that bf% where it should be to properly cycle. Your taking 2 steps forward and 3 steps backwards at the moment. Something many people do on here that have no business cycling till they gain a decent build. Glad you realize you need to get a diet, but you seem like this will take 3 weeks and you will be back at it. You have a long road ahead if you want to lose all that bf. However, good luck and the nutrition section is flooded with knowledge on how to eat properly to grow.

**jay94** · 06-15-2014, 09:45 AM

So you got injured because you started juicing when your body wasn't ready, and then you started juicing again. No offense meant but IMO your body still isn't ready at all. Steroids aren't a replacement for poor eating and if you're at 22% BF then clearly your diet is far from ideal.

**rusty_1989** · 06-15-2014, 11:30 AM

I'm at 22% now, was at 28% after bulk.. You're right though my diet was not constant an I will hold my hands up to that.. Dieting is my downfall and can never seem to perfect it. I have macros and update it daily and tweel it from time to time but never seem to get anywhere.. Defo not my gym side of things as I have a personal trainer draw me up a work out programme and I always stick to that.. Will get reading on the nutrition forum and see if I can get any advice.. So you don't think it's gyno then and more than likely high high bf?

**lovbyts** · 06-15-2014, 12:34 PM

Yes most likely high body fat.

A couple easy diet changes is try to eat 6 meals a day. Not large. Never stuff yourself and surround yourself with healthy foods for snacks all day. Fruits, vegetables, mixed nuts and more. If you arent hungry you wont have cravings.

**DrewZ** · 06-15-2014, 10:45 PM

I agree with lovebyts, 6 meals a day works great at curbing hunger and losing weight.

To add to it though I would portion meals out or individual macros out into zip lock bags and just grab them when its time to eat.
ie: 4oz brown rice, 4oz chicken breast, add some veggies.
This is how I ensure my success w/ diet, makes it a piece of cake... mmm cake

Be mindful of how many nuts you're eating though, they are a domino food - those calories can get pretty high pretty quick!

I would recommend portioning snacks out too so you don't over eat them.

Also, for myself I'm careful with how much fruit I eat and when - lots of sugar in fruit.

**jay94** · 06-15-2014, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by rusty_1989

I'm at 22% now, was at 28% after bulk.. You're right though my diet was not constant an I will hold my hands up to that.. Dieting is my downfall and can never seem to perfect it. I have macros and update it daily and tweel it from time to time but never seem to get anywhere.. Defo not my gym side of things as I have a personal trainer draw me up a work out programme and I always stick to that.. Will get reading on the nutrition forum and see if I can get any advice.. So you don't think it's gyno then and more than likely high high bf?

Forgot about lifting weights, dietting IS literally everything. You could do no weight lifting whatsoever and still lose fat efficiently if you know how to diet. Dietting should be learned by people before they even start lifting IMO, but that's only in an ideal world, and in our world things go the other way around most of the time.

**SEOINAGE** · 06-15-2014, 11:39 PM

Drop 40 lbs then worry about whether it is gyno or not, guarantee by then it will either be gone, or be very noticeable.

Couple things about the thread I would like to comment more on, but there are more than one ways to skin a cat. But to put it briefly, I hate when people say diet or training is in check, it is never in check, it almost always could use adjustment, or at least there are always improvements to be made. And yeah dieting is key, but I like to start people lifting weights that haven't been without making any dietary changes, unless they are far from the norm with their food consumption. Lots of reasons to this. And 6 small meals may work for some, but it is by no means required, but there are several reasons this approach is good for some.