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Thread: Do I have everything in place for first cycle?

  1. #1
    whodeysay is offline New Member
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    Do I have everything in place for first cycle?

    27 years old
    5'6 165lbs 10-12" BF
    No previous cycles
    Diet and training are in check!

    350mg Sust a week for 10 weeks
    .25mg Liquidex EOD up until last injection

    Start PCT 3 weeks after last injection (because of long lasting esters)
    Nolva (Liquid Tamox)-40-20-20-20
    Clomid (Liquid Clomi)- 75-50-50-50

    I've heard from other that even at 350mg (5 esters) of Sust, I will still expect to see good results. Don't want to go full blown as its my first time and want to see how the body responds.
    Here are the ingredients on bottle:
    Test Acetate 30mg
    Test Deconate 100mg
    Test Propianate 100mg
    Test Cypionate 85mg
    Test Phenylpropionate 35mg

    Thanks in advance and any advice is appreciated.

  2. #2
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    You should use hCG the entire time your pinning and use an AI all the way up until PCT. When using sustanon PCT should begin 18 days after last pin.

  3. #3
    Times Roman's Avatar
    Times Roman is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    You should use hCG the entire time your pinning and use an AI all the way up until PCT. When using sustanon PCT should begin 18 days after last pin.
    that's right.
    pin based on the fastest burning esther
    PCT wait period based on the slowest burning esther

    and it's close to the most expensive form of test.

    whodoyasay...
    ...how do you know your diet is in check?
    jay94 likes this.

  4. #4
    whodeysay is offline New Member
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    Thanks for the input.
    Times Roman, when you say pin based off the fastest burning ester, would you recommend then pinning every 3rd day.(175mg monday, 175mg Friday)
    Also, been hearing about HCG this and that but why is it so important? I know it keeps your natural test up but is it ABSOLUTELY a must? I've heard of many people doing Sust WITHOUT HCG and they have had success with the cycle as well as PCT. Another is I don't know where to find HCG.

    Also, how do I know my diet is in check? I've been tracking macros, dieting and bulking for 2 years now and have found my sweet spot (c,f,p ratio). I know what works for me. Since on the subject, would you recommend a full blown bulk (800+ surplus calories a day) or could I get away with doing a more steady 200-300 lean bulk? Could I be in a deficit and still gain muscle?

    Thanks again. Open ears (or eyes) here

  5. #5
    whodeysay is offline New Member
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    Liquidex is an AI correct? So I have that down.
    PCT will start 18 days instead of 21 days. Thanks

    And why is HCG so important? I've heard of people making great gains and recovering well without it. Just curious

  6. #6
    Times Roman's Avatar
    Times Roman is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by whodeysay View Post
    Thanks for the input.
    Times Roman, when you say pin based off the fastest burning ester, would you recommend then pinning every 3rd day.(175mg monday, 175mg Friday) - NO. Your fastest burning esther is the A, which means you will have the distinct pleasure of pinning daily.Also, been hearing about HCG this and that but why is it so important? I know it keeps your natural test up but is it ABSOLUTELY a must? I've heard of many people doing Sust WITHOUT HCG and they have had success with the cycle as well as PCT. Another is I don't know where to find HCG. - Taking HCG is based on your needs as a person. For me, I'm on TRT, and I've had the vasectomy, and the only benefit to me would be cosmetically maintaining testicular size. I see no reason why I would consider taking HCG, period. But you must make your own decision.

    Also, how do I know my diet is in check? I've been tracking macros, dieting and bulking for 2 years now and have found my sweet spot (c,f,p ratio). I know what works for me. Since on the subject, would you recommend a full blown bulk (800+ surplus calories a day) or could I get away with doing a more steady 200-300 lean bulk? Could I be in a deficit and still gain muscle?

    if you cut (going below TDEE), you will lose mostly BF, (assuming everything else is in place), but you WILL lose some muscle. If you want to keep the muscle, and maintain your weight by recomping, then eat AT TDEE. As far as the degree of caloric surplus over TDEE for bulking, it really is a function of how much fat you are willing to tolerate. (And how easily you lose fat when you focus on this). For some, they dirty bulk when it's cold out (1/2 autumn, winter) and cut when it warms up. There are many that will swear by this. But it also means dynamic weight change, which is not healthy in the long run, as it strains the body. For me, I'll be bumping up over TDEE here in a couple of months, after I've finished my recomp, and I'll probably go maybe 150 cals/day over TDEE. My limitation is the arthritis in my back. I'm 210 right now, and I could probably get to 250 by summers end (September/October), but the more I weigh, the more it hurts. So I'm learning to be very cautious with adding fat.


    Thanks again. Open ears (or eyes) here
    comments in red. does it make sense?

  7. #7
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    When using a mix like this your serum levels will be more consistent the more often you pin. E3D-EOD will keep serum levels highest and any fluctuation in levels will minimized. Also, expect to get PIP when using a concentration that high on your first cycle.

    Yes dex is an AI.

    When exogenous test is introduced into your HPTA shutdown. Your body will not be producing LH or FSH. This means your body will stop producing natural test and spermiogenesis will stop. hCG mimics LH and will keep your leydig cells functioning. hCG will increase your chances of recovering successfully during PCT.

    You should read this thread.

    HCG: Why you should use it on-cycle only & how to prepare your hCG for injections

    You should also read the threads in this database to be properly prepared to cycle.

    Austinite's Educational Article Database
    Last edited by numbere; 06-27-2014 at 06:49 PM.

  8. #8
    Zedded is offline Junior Member
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    why the mix for a first cycle? why not just test E or C?

  9. #9
    whodeysay is offline New Member
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    Thanks Times for your thorough response.
    So if I plan on eating in a 200 calorie surplus a day (1400 a week or roughly .4lbs a week) does that mean I would only gain that .4lbs a week or since I'm using Test, my gains would grow much more than just what you eat? Or is it strickly based off of what you eat? If eat in a 3500 calorie surplus a week for 10 weeks, will that mean I will put on just 10lbs?
    Hope that makes sense. Just curious on what gains would be expected for a cycle.
    Thanks again for your time

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