Deca/Winny/Proviron Cycle

[aeldaly]

Hello everyone,

First of all, sorry for the long post. Just want to provide as much (hopefully) useful information as possible.

41 - training for many years, 170lb, 15% bf. What I'm proposing will be my 3rd cycle.

A quick background about me. I've always had low levels of test. Only recently have I been diagnosed with a prolactinoma which turns out after years and years of frustration to be the root cause of my constantly low test levels. My low test levels has meant that no matter how much I work out, I've never had the body I think I deserve. I'm now taking Caber, prescribed by my doc, and for the first time in my life, my test levels have been normal for the past 2 months.

Background about my past cycles. My first one was a sust only cycle, 250mg/week for 2 weeks and then 500mg/week for another 7. The results were OK, but I really suffered from high blood pressure, and had very mild gyno. Unfortunately, once off cycle, I returned to my same old same old test levels and lost my gains. My second cycle was simply awesome for me. No sides what so ever and had great results. It was Winny/Proviron /Tren cycle. I love tren!

Now that my test levels have stabilized, I'd like to start a 3rd cycle that cuts the fat and builds muscle. I already have winny and deca available, and would like to follow this plan:

Week	Proviron	Deca	Winstrol	Tamoxifen	HCG
1		200mg/week		20mg/day
2	50mg/day	200mg/week		20mg/day
3	50mg/day	200mg/week		20mg/day
4	50mg/day	200mg/week		20mg/day
5	50mg/day	200mg/week	20mg/day	20mg/day
6	50mg/day	200mg/week	20mg/day	20mg/day
7	50mg/day	200mg/week	20mg/day	20mg/day
8	50mg/day	200mg/week	20mg/day	20mg/day
9	50mg/day	200mg/week	20mg/day	20mg/day
10	50mg/day	200mg/week	20mg/day	20mg/day
11	50mg/day		20mg/day	20mg/day
12
13
14					7,500 IU
15					5,000 IU
16					3,000 IU

As for diet, I'll be targeting 2,300 calories per day. My rationale is 1.5gm/lb protein, 1gm/lb carbs, 0.3gm/lb fats, which would give 270gm protein, 180gm carbs, and 54gm fats per day for a total of 2,300/day, approximately. I'll be getting my food from wholesome, clean sources, all cooked at home + whey protein.

I really would like to use the Deca and Winny as I already have them and do not want to spend money when I do not have to. What do you guys think of this cycle. I'm also really interested in the PCT as I do not want to lose the gains this time around.

Thanks!

[Cuz]

This 19th century stuff where did you find this. That cycle is complete disaster even with the proviron added horrible idea to not run test with a Deca cycle...thats one of the worst cycles ive ever seen and hcg should be run entire cycle along with an aromatise inhibitor...not nolvadex good god man lol

[aeldaly]

LOL. Thanks for the feedback

I did approach the cycle in a backwards fashion, I have to admit. I started searching for a cycle that includes the gear that I already have, namely winny and deca .

As I said, tren /winny/anavar worked wonders for me, but I really want to use what I have. I also have about 10 vials of sust 200mg/ml on hand. What do you suggest? Why is a 19th century cycle bad if it produces results?

[Cuz]

Well I would use the sust alongside deca and since you are set on using the winny use it at the end of cycle . That cycle wont produce much but a limp dick. Do you have an AI ? Gonnaneed one. Since you are gyno ssensitive id get some caber also. Any pct planned?

[aeldaly]

It won't produce nothing but a limp dick because of the deca ? Is it the deca that's old school? Should I just stick to repeating my second cycle since it went pretty well for me?

[Back In Black]

5'11 and 170lbs after 2 cycles? Man, you need to fix your diet not worry about running disastrous stacks. Forget the steroids and hit up our nutrition forum. You lose your gains because you don't now how to eat to gain/maintain.

You'll get no better advice at this stage other than, if you think you have low test levels (and there's every chance after your last cycle) you should go and get some bloodwork done.

Good luck

[Cuz]

Hes right man. At 41 see where your blood work stands before you cycle. Also he made another good point on losing gains. If you had eaten more during and after pct you would have retained more gains. Post your diet up in the nutrition forum they can tweak it

[aeldaly]

Hey guys. Thanks for all the feedback. Much appreciated. I'm scrapping this disastrous cycle then and will start a new thread about repeating my second one.

I just did blood work that was ordered by my doctor to verify test and prolactin levels after taking caber for 6 months. Not sure if you guys read the part where I have a prolactinoma that screws with my prolactin and test levels.

Both my prolactin and test levels are bang on right now.

[Back In Black]

Hey guys. Thanks for all the feedback. Much appreciated. I'm scrapping this disastrous cycle then and will start a new thread about repeating my second one.

I just did blood work that was ordered by my doctor to verify test and prolactin levels after taking caber for 6 months. Not sure if you guys read the part where I have a prolactinoma that screws with my prolactin and test levels.

Both my prolactin and test levels are bang on right now.

I'll be sure to reply with my same comments about your weight and diet. Oh, and your second cycle was a disaster too. Read the comments about not running test.

Also edit post 3 no source posting, thanks.

[Cuz]

What were test levels ? Really no need in starting another thread I agree with BIB

[aeldaly]

Don't have the numbers on hand ATM but before the doc prescribed caber, prolactin levels were 20x the highest allowed and test levels were 0.5x the minimum.

Now both are in the mid range of acceptable levels.

[aeldaly]

I'll be sure to reply with my same comments about your weight and diet. Oh, and your second cycle was a disaster too. Read the comments about not running test. Also edit post 3 no source posting, thanks.

Thanks BIB. I edited the post as requested.

That cycle worked really well for me both in terms of gains and fat loss. I had no sides, no loss of libido, it went smooth as silk. I do have sust, Clomid, nolva and the doc prescribed caber on hand. I'd like to repeat it and can add the sust in if that's the recommended way to go about it.

[tarmyg]

How much did you weigh and what was your body fat levels before the last cycle? In other words, how much did you keep in gains from your previous attempt?

[aeldaly]

I will post in the nutrition group for advice on nutrition during and post cycle.

My low test levels for all my adult life has been frustrating and caused much anguish. I'm happy that I finally found the reason and the that's it's fixed. I'd like to kickstart the process now and am looking for advice on the cycle, PCT and HCG dosages during cycle and during PCT.

Appreciate the comments. Just an FYI, nutrition or not, I found it impossible to keep gains with the low levels of natural test I was producing. I don't have the numbers on hand right now, but it used to be half of the lower normal range. That is not an issue anymore.

[aeldaly]

How much did you weigh and what was your body fat levels before the last cycle? In other words, how much did you keep in gains from your previous attempt?

After the cycle I was at 190lb and fat reduction was amazing. I keep all the fat around the abdomen and at the end you could start seeing the abs forming. 3-4 months later I was back where I started. Part nutrition of course, but mostly due to my low natural test levels.

[Deal Me In]

You've said on a couple of occasion that you have low natural test but it's no longer an issue. What did you do to correct this? Did your doctor put you on some TRT? It seems to me that if you finally have your hormone levels balanced for the first time in your life you should leave things alone for awhile and see what happens. See what you are capable of with normal test levels and then go from there. Just my .02.

[aeldaly]

You've said on a couple of occasion that you have low natural test but it's no longer an issue. What did you do to correct this? Did your doctor put you on some TRT? It seems to me that if you finally have your hormone levels balanced for the first time in your life you should leave things alone for awhile and see what happens. See what you are capable of with normal test levels and then go from there. Just my .02.

Hey man. Thanks for the good question. It turns out that in my late adolescent years I developed a prolactinoma. Essentially a brain tumour that grew and started pushing on my pituitary gland. It's nothing dangerous. The effect is that squeeze on the pituitary gland caused it to send all sorts of wrong signals that prompted my body to produce prolactin all the time. You can only imagine what kind of havoc that caused on my hormone levels. The solution turned out to be simple. Doc prescribed caber for me which counteracted the prolactin that my body produces and set everything in it's proper order.

I understand your point and I have thought about it but here's the deal. I'm not a slacker couch potato. I run 3 times a week, I bike regularly, I swim twice a week, I lift, I watch what I eat. I've put in the time and effort, time and time again. I can understand how reading my stats can point to a guy that has not put in the time or the effort, but I have. I nurture a healthy lifestyle for my kids and I. We do activities all the time together. The only issue is that so far my body has not cooperated because of that prolactinoma.

I don't want to start from scratch. I feel I've earned a good body, but without hormones to supplement it, the efforts go wasted. I want to kickstart and start further along and take it from there.

Hope that makes sense.

Guys, if you could help me with my cycle, I'd tremendously appreciate it. Ultimately, I want to start with a lean body. I know that tren has worked awesomely for me. If you could point me to:

1. A cycle that incorporates tren
2. Ancillary support, I know that I'll need caber for sure
3. The PCT
4. HCG . Yes/no, when?

Before the end of PCT I'll post again asking for pointers to what to do after my cycle to make sure I don't lose the gains.

Thanks to all your support so far

[Back In Black]

If you insist on running a cycle you should learn how to do it properly. Test only with proper ancillaries and see how you react. You are truly lacking a basic understanding which is why I am recommending this.

My First Cycle: Planning and Executing a Successful First Cycle

Oh, and eating 2300cals a day to bulk is why you only weigh 170. You need to eat to grow. Full stop.

[Deal Me In]

I have to second what BIB said. I understand your desire to use AAS. However, it's a marathon not a sprint. Follow the advice in the link posted by BIB. Test only with proper precautions. You're only 41, you have many cycles in your future. Start with the basics and build on them.

On a side note, with your issues with prolactin I would be very wary of Tren . Without proper control of your E2 it will cause a rise in prolactin. Considering you are already sensitive to prolactin issues I see no reason to take the risk. You can achieve the results you are looking for with other compounds that don't come with this risk.

[Deal Me In]

Oh, and eat more. If you're as active as you say, and I have no reason to believe you aren't, I'm surprised you way that much with only 2300 calories a day. You have to get your caloric intake to at least 500 over what you burn daily to see any results. Hit up the nutrition section to learn all about this. READ READ READ.

[aeldaly]

Thanks for your feedback guys. I'll get my nutrition right, gain some muscle and come back in a few months and see. I really appreciate all the honest feedback.

All the best