Which order would you choose?

[thephoenix25]

Hi,
I'm preparing to buy my next two cycles in the next few weeks. For complicated reasons I wont be able to buy any more for a while so I've been trying to work out what I will want to run. I've settled on two different cycles, but bearing in mind that these will be my 2nd and 3rd cycles, I haven't gone wild with my choices:

Test P 8-10 weeks @ 525mg - 700mg per week (undecided dose yet)

and

Test E 12 weeks @ 500mg per week
Dbol 6 weeks @ 40mg per day

Please assume that AI, HCG and PCT will be the same for both cycles. And I am aware of the, time on + PCT = recovery between cycles.
Adex 0.25 - 0.5g eod.
HCG 500ui p/w.
PCT Clomid 75/50/50/50 & Nolvadex 40/20/20/20.

My problem is in choosing which to do first. My goal is to bulk through both cycles

Dbol+Test E
I've been cutting for the last 4 months and although I look ok, I feel kinda small, so I like the idea of the dbol kickstart to get an extra boost in size and strength (this is the only time when water weight is welcome lol). Test E alone worked great last time and I had very few troubles with sides.

Test Prop
Alternatively, it is always recommended that test only should be the first couple of cycles and I'd like to see how I get on with prop. I really like the idea of how fast it enters and then leaves your system, so a quick cycle with less wait for PCT has got to be good. I masochistically looked forward to my injections last time round, so the injection frequency shouldn't be a problem.

TLDR;
In which order would you choose to do these for 2nd and 3rd cycles (and why)
Test Prop or Test E with Dbol kickstart

[XxAndreaxX]

I would do test E only, and ramp up dose time for time, start @ 500mg and go up to 1000mg if your body admits it.
test prop is junk for me, lots of pins and PIP.
Dbol makes me feel sick, and 30mg dbol gives me the same results as 750mg test E

[Sfla80]

I would do test E only, and ramp up dose time for time, start @ 500mg and go up to 1000mg if your body admits it.
test prop is junk for me, lots of pins and PIP.
Dbol makes me feel sick, and 30mg dbol gives me the same results as 750mg test E

Do not listen to this guy!!

Stick with test e or p at 500 for ur 2nd cycle. U can add the dbol with no issues or another oral.

[Buster Brown]

Do not listen to this guy!!

Stick with test e or p at 500 for ur 2nd cycle. U can add the dbol with no issues or another oral.

Agreed......you should in no way be using a gram of gear your first fee cycles.

[ojm3]

1 gram test?! He's a man not a horse! Lol

[RigPig]

I'd say Prop first, because it's only your second cycle and you should still respond very well to a test only cycle, also it will help you learn to listen to your body better and dial in how you respond to your diet before adding a compound in the 3rd cycle. Since their both Bulk cycles back to back it should be easy to be bang on with your diet. This is only my opinion, what I would do in this case. I also only have one cycle under my belt at this point. My research leads me to my suggestion, not my experience.

[Buster Brown]

I'd say Prop first, because it's only your second cycle and you should still respond very well to a test only cycle, also it will help you learn to listen to your body better and dial in how you respond to your diet before adding a compound in the 3rd cycle. Since their both Bulk cycles back to back it should be easy to be bang on with your diet. This is only my opinion, what I would do in this case. I also only have one cycle under my belt at this point. My research leads me to my suggestion, not my experience.

If he is going for 12 weeks that's alot of pinning....maybe tes e for 10 then switch to prop 100 mgs eod to get a taste of frequent pinning and start pct sooner.

[RigPig]

If he is going for 12 weeks that's alot of pinning....maybe tes e for 10 then switch to prop 100 mgs eod to get a taste of frequent pinning and start pct sooner.

I hear that BB, but he asked which one first..didn't think the two together was an option he wanted to hear. And I'm a bit of a twisted f**k, I looked forward to pin day like it was Christmas. I'd be perfectly content pinning EOD haha

[thephoenix25]

I would do test E only, and ramp up dose time for time, start @ 500mg and go up to 1000mg if your body admits it.
test prop is junk for me, lots of pins and PIP.
Dbol makes me feel sick, and 30mg dbol gives me the same results as 750mg test E

Thanks for your input.

Stick with test e or p at 500 for ur 2nd cycle. U can add the dbol with no issues or another oral.

If he is going for 12 weeks that's alot of pinning....maybe tes e for 10 then switch to prop 100 mgs eod to get a taste of frequent pinning and start pct sooner.

My earlier proposed 2nd cycle was to kickstart with prop and then finish off with prop, and using test e for the main duration of the cycle. This was mostly because I'm impatient and want to get straight into it and I didn't like the waiting for PCT after the last test e cycle. There is attached a graph from roidcalc outlining how the test levels could be kept stable.

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ad-test-p.html

The consensus on that thread was that to kickstart with prop and switch back at the end was not worth the effort, would you agree?

I hear that BB, but he asked which one first..didn't think the two together was an option he wanted to hear. And I'm a bit of a twisted f**k, I looked forward to pin day like it was Christmas. I'd be perfectly content pinning EOD haha

I'm with you RigPig, I looked forward to pin day, so assuming the pip from prop isn't horrific, eod would not be a problem.

I'm still flexible on my cycle choices and am open to suggestions or advice

[RigPig]

Thanks for your input. My earlier proposed 2nd cycle was to kickstart with prop and then finish off with prop, and using test e for the main duration of the cycle. This was mostly because I'm impatient and want to get straight into it and I didn't like the waiting for PCT after the last test e cycle. There is attached a graph from roidcalc outlining how the test levels could be kept stable. http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ad-test-p.html The consensus on that thread was that to kickstart with prop and switch back at the end was not worth the effort, would you agree? I'm with you RigPig, I looked forward to pin day, so assuming the pip from prop isn't horrific, eod would not be a problem. I'm still flexible on my cycle choices and am open to suggestions or advice

From what I gather Prop PIP is as individual as any other PIP, some guys say no problem, others say hurts like a mofo. I did 3 shots out of a bottle of Test-E, hurt so bad for days I gave it to my buddy and he did the rest and said no PIP at all. I'm not a *****, just must have ben sensitive to that batch, maybe the oil, may have been the solvent I don't know.

[Buster Brown]

Thanks for your input.

My earlier proposed 2nd cycle was to kickstart with prop and then finish off with prop, and using test e for the main duration of the cycle. This was mostly because I'm impatient and want to get straight into it and I didn't like the waiting for PCT after the last test e cycle. There is attached a graph from roidcalc outlining how the test levels could be kept stable.

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ad-test-p.html

The consensus on that thread was that to kickstart with prop and switch back at the end was not worth the effort, would you agree?

I'm with you RigPig, I looked forward to pin day, so assuming the pip from prop isn't horrific, eod would not be a problem.

I'm still flexible on my cycle choices and am open to suggestions or advice

I think backloading with prop makes great sense because it allows you to make those weeks productive.

[XxAndreaxX]

Agreed......you should in no way be using a gram of gear your first fee cycles.

I never said to use 1gr. I said to do that if your body admits it. We all know the concentration that’s written on the bottle of an UGL product, is only speculation. Sometimes even the hormone itself. 1gr of test, could result in less than 500mg If you’re unlucky.
That’s why I say, start at a safe dose, and ramp up if you feel you could handle more. For the prop, like I said, I hate short esters, I never ended a cycle with short ester test, but I assume, you could get a very noticable test crash. I never felt a real crash with long esters.

[Nobuddy]

Have you considered a Test/Deca stack as a second cycle?

[thephoenix25]

I never ended a cycle with short ester test, but I assume, you could get a very noticable test crash. I never felt a real crash with long esters.

This is a good point. Personally I found the two weeks wait kind of depressing on my first cycle so I'm interested to see what it like to drop quicker. I think I'd prefer to get it over with in a few days.

Have you considered a Test/Deca stack as a second cycle?

Yea, not really ready for this one. The cycle would be longer and I'm still feeling my way around with the AI and I understand that prolactin is a concern, which I've not read up on yet.

Thanks for the inputs

[Buster Brown]

This is a good point. Personally I found the two weeks wait kind of depressing on my first cycle so I'm interested to see what it like to drop quicker. I think I'd prefer to get it over with in a few days.

Yea, not really ready for this one. The cycle would be longer and I'm still feeling my way around with the AI and I understand that prolactin is a concern, which I've not read up on yet.

Thanks for the inputs

Tes crash?????? That's a good one! Switching from long Esther to a short Esther has been a widely accepted approach for the reasons I stated in my earlier post .....I as well as many others have done this with much success.

[Rida5d]

I never said to use 1gr. I said to do that if your body admits it. We all know the concentration that’s written on the bottle of an UGL product, is only speculation. Sometimes even the hormone itself. 1gr of test, could result in less than 500mg If you’re unlucky.
That’s why I say, start at a safe dose, and ramp up if you feel you could handle more. For the prop, like I said, I hate short esters, I never ended a cycle with short ester test, but I assume, you could get a very noticable test crash. I never felt a real crash with long esters.

Man , I never see you posting but from the reaction of the members I see you are a reckless person.
Never give advice that could end up hurting others.
What if the test was well dosed ?
Playing the yo yo with dosages is not a good approach... You are dealing with hormones, not a play station game.

[Inquisitive]

Posted from friends account, ignore this!

[thephoenix25]

Tes crash?????? That's a good one! Switching from long Esther to a short Esther has been a widely accepted approach for the reasons I stated in my earlier post .....I as well as many others have done this with much success.

Not sure if you meant to quote my post or XxAndreaxX's. I know that many people do prop only cycles and don't have a problem when it comes to finishing up and waiting for test levels to drop low enough to start pct. My point is that I didn't like waiting two weeks on the longer esthers and think a short esther would be an advantage to me. I'm happy with the transition from test e to test p and look forward to giving it a go.

I appreciate your help with this decision.

[thephoenix25]

Man , I never see you posting but from the reaction of the members I see you are a reckless person.
Never give advice that could end up hurting others.
What if the test was well dosed ?
Playing the yo yo with dosages is not a good approach... You are dealing with hormones, not a play station game.

Agreed. The test e I can get is legit bayer & schering testoviron so I'll not be going above 500mg per week. And while I can't vouch for the test p, I do trust the source so again I'll be using it conservatively. Also test e takes such a long time to become noticeable, IMO adjusting dose mid cycle would be difficult and probably counter productive