Switching From Test Prop To Test E.

**Ljavy17** · 09-09-2009, 12:06 PM

I know its not the best switch ever. But I only have another bottle of Prop and I could only get Test E for my cycle.
I am wondering what a good way to switch would be without ending up with low test levels?
I am shooting 300Prop and want to swtich to 325mgs Test E a week.
Should I shoot 325mgs of Test E a week before my last week of Prop?
Meaning shooting them both together for one week and then completelly switching out to the other?

**sigman roid** · 09-09-2009, 12:42 PM

iit takes about 4 weeks for test e to kick in so even if you shot them both for a week once you come off the prop your still gonna have a wait until the E kicks in so the prop will have been a waste of time

**hankdiesel** · 09-09-2009, 12:45 PM

Plan out your cycle better next time. Have everything on hand before you start. How long is your cycle and what week are you on? How are you dosing your prop to get 300mg a week?

**Hazard** · 09-09-2009, 01:21 PM

I may be wrong here..... but if i'm not mistaken...... his test levels should already be built up pretty high from the test prop..... wouldn't he still feel the enanthate ? I know enanthate takes roughly 4 weeks to "feel" but thats because levels are building...... theoretically it's still working.....

~Haz~

**Noles12** · 09-09-2009, 01:25 PM

Due to half lifes his prop levels will be dropping while the longer ester will still take 4 weeks to build

**oneshot** · 09-09-2009, 01:29 PM

just start shooting the enanthate right after you stop the prop. or start shooting the enanthate now and save the rest of your prop for the end of the cycle to avoid the 2 week pct start delay. no need to overlap them. the enanthate will be active pretty quick.

**Noles12** · 09-09-2009, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by oneshot

just start shooting the enanthate right after you stop the prop. or start shooting the enanthate now and save the rest of your prop for the end of the cycle to avoid the 2 week pct start delay. no need to overlap them. the enanthate will be active pretty quick.

Can you explain this to me because i am reading over this and i think im just confusing myself. The enthanate ester shouldn't act any faster just because test is already present right?

**oneshot** · 09-09-2009, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Noles12

Can you explain this to me because i am reading over this and i think im just confusing myself. The enthanate ester shouldn't act any faster just because test is already present right?

there was a really good older thread on similar topic. lemme try to dig it up

**oneshot** · 09-09-2009, 01:56 PM

damn couldnt find the thread i wanted. the test enanthate you inject will be active immediately, its just the build up that takes a few weeks to get to where you can really feel it. im goin out on a limb here, but a frontloading type approach might not be a bad idea for the enanthate (or midload in this case?). like shooting double the dose the first week and then go back to the norm after that for the rest of the cycle. it really depends on how far in your cycle you are and how much you have left though. say you only have a couple weeks left, then it wouldnt even be worth it to try and start the test e at this point. next tiem plan your cycle out better and have everything on hand before taking that first shot.

**Ljavy17** · 09-09-2009, 02:01 PM

I was originally doing Test E so I started with some Test E leftovers and fronloaded it at 1250mgs the first two weeks. But then, I was able to get Test Prop for about 5 weeks. Then when I was in my 3rd week and I was only able to get another bottle of Test E instead of the Prop I needed.
So here it goes.
First two weeks 1250mgs of Test E.
Week 3 to 8 I can do Test Prop (I am in My fourth Week)
(I am holding tons and shitsload of water probably from the test Frontloading)
Then In week 8 I can do jump back on Test E.
Would this be a better choice?
Week 1 to 2 (test E frontloaded)
Week 3 to 4 (Test Prop) (currently in this week)
Should I just start using Test E now, (and use it Week 4 to the end of the cycle?)
I am holding Lots of water now, Could this be from the Test E I took all at once?
Whats a smart way to Get rid of this water weight and Incredibly Bloated face? I ordered Some Letro, Should I use it or just wait until the Test E Subsides?

**Mooseman33** · 09-09-2009, 02:11 PM

do u have ur PCT on hand? and if so, what is planned?

**oneshot** · 09-09-2009, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Ljavy17

I was originally doing Test E so I started with some Test E leftovers and fronloaded it at 1250mgs the first two weeks. But then, I was able to get Test Prop for about 5 weeks. Then when I was in my 3rd week and I was only able to get another bottle of Test E instead of the Prop I needed.
So here it goes.
First two weeks 1250mgs of Test E.
Week 3 to 8 I can do Test Prop (I am in My fourth Week)
(I am holding tons and shitsload of water probably from the test Frontloading)
Then In week 8 I can do jump back on Test E.
Would this be a better choice?
Week 1 to 2 (test E frontloaded)
Week 3 to 4 (Test Prop) (currently in this week)
Should I just start using Test E now, (and use it Week 4 to the end of the cycle?)
I am holding Lots of water now, Could this be from the Test E I took all at once?
Whats a smart way to Get rid of this water weight and Incredibly Bloated face? I ordered Some Letro, Should I use it or just wait until the Test E Subsides?

at this point, id just keep using the test e til you run out, then switch to prop for the rest. is test the only compound running? if so, then the bloat is probably from that. the two week frontload was a bit overkill. usually frontloading is just done the first week. as for the water, try cutting back on the sodium, upping your water intake, and keeping that diet clean. if i still isnt manageable, then maybe add in some adex at .25 mg ed. letro would be a bit extreme just to get rid of some water weight. some of that bloat might go away once you start the prop, but im still surprised you would get severely bloated at all off such a small dose

**oneshot** · 09-09-2009, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Mooseman33

do u have ur PCT on hand? and if so, what is planned?

^^^ yup yup. whacha got for that?

**roid_rage** · 09-09-2009, 02:28 PM

Ppl is confusing things here, while is true that it takes about 4 weeks for the E to kick, is not the ester whats kicking, is the test, therefore, if it hits the peak of the test level with prop, E should be kicking right away (well not E but test) will be the same as using cyp and switching to E after week 4th, you wont have to wait another 4 weeks to feel the efect, due that your test level are at its peak already..

Sorry If I couldnt express my self in the right way, english isnt my first lenguage...

**Hazard** · 09-09-2009, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by roid_rage

Ppl is confusing things here, while is true that it takes about 4 weeks for the E to kick, is not the ester whats kicking, is the test, therefore, if it hits the peak of the test level with prop, E should be kicking right away (well not E but test) will be the same as using cyp and switching to E after week 4th, you wont have to wait another 4 weeks to feel the efect, due that your test level are at its peak already..

Sorry If I couldnt express my self in the right way, english isnt my first lenguage...

Thats more or less what I was trying to say also.....

~Haz~

**BBall6** · 09-09-2009, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by roid_rage

Ppl is confusing things here, while is true that it takes about 4 weeks for the E to kick, is not the ester whats kicking, is the test, therefore, if it hits the peak of the test level with prop, E should be kicking right away (well not E but test) will be the same as using cyp and switching to E after week 4th, you wont have to wait another 4 weeks to feel the efect, due that your test level are at its peak already..

Sorry If I couldnt express my self in the right way, english isnt my first lenguage...

That's b/c the cyp is a long estered test just like the E. Therefore, you pick up pretty much where where you left off. The ester is what binds to the test and you can only use the test as quickly as the ester it is bound to. The cyp and E have a 15 day active life whereas the prop only has a 2-3 day active life, so between day 3 and 20 something, he isn't going to have any test to amount to anything.

This sounds like a terrible plan to me and I would start PCT now and plan a better cycle next time before doing any type of permanent damage.

**Ljavy17** · 09-09-2009, 03:13 PM

No not really, If I was to use your Advice then the best Idea is to shoot The test E about 3 weeks Before I run out of Prop (Both Together).
Maybe Lower the Test Prop to 200mgs a week and Shoot 250mgs of Test E until the Test Prop runs out and then Run Test E by itself (at 325mgs).However Instead of making it so complicated I will simply add Test E a week before at 300mgs and take 200 mgs of Prop that same week and then switch it all at once the week after.
I have decided to run .25 Mgs of Letro EOD or ED. (I want to stay ar dry as possible)
I am ALso Running Mast at 400mgs (lowering to 350 this week)(Hard to sleep, verry Irritable)Specially because I cant sleep and I am a full Time Student.
And will Add Proviron at 25mgs ED (Next week)
So how does this sound so far?

**Ljavy17** · 09-09-2009, 03:13 PM

I already have Tamoxifen and HCG on hand for PCT. Maybe add Arimidex later on.

**Mooseman33** · 09-09-2009, 03:23 PM

ur whole cycle sounds like a cluster fvk bro.

cut ur losses, hit PCT and plan a better cycle.

**BBall6** · 09-09-2009, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Ljavy17

No not really, If I was to use your Advice then the best Idea is to shoot The test E about 3 weeks Before I run out of Prop (Both Together).
Maybe Lower the Test Prop to 200mgs a week and Shoot 250mgs of Test E until the Test Prop runs out and then Run Test E by itself (at 325mgs).However Instead of making it so complicated I will simply add Test E a week before at 300mgs and take 200 mgs of Prop that same week and then switch it all at once the week after.
I have decided to run .25 Mgs of Letro EOD or ED. (I want to stay ar dry as possible)
I am ALso Running Mast at 400mgs (lowering to 350 this week)(Hard to sleep, verry Irritable)Specially because I cant sleep and I am a full Time Student.
And will Add Proviron at 25mgs ED (Next week)
So how does this sound so far?

Personally, I would just take however much prop you have left and then use the E in your next cycle (even though overlapping like that won't cause a huge dip, it will still give you a peak). In order to minimize sides and everything else, it is best to maintain stable blood levels. I'm not saying this is what you should do as I believe the best thing to do would just continue your prop, but it would be better to gradually taper off the prop over 3 weeks or so while the E is building up in order to keep things as stable as possible (at least in theory - I can't say that I've know anyone that has actually done anything like this)

And no matter what route you go, I would use an anti-estrogen like your letro. Especially if you choose to try and use your test E again as your estrogen levels will be all over the place.

**BBall6** · 09-09-2009, 03:37 PM

Bottom line, just be patient and stay healthy enough to do another cycle, there is nothing wrong with finishing up the prop, but I would seriously stop there and do your PCT after that.

**Hazard** · 09-09-2009, 03:54 PM

I don't know why people think the test isn't "working" until it "kicks in"..... Once you inject it - it gradually enters the blood stream. Test enanthate has a 14 day half-life..... it's active when it's injected and HALF of what is injected is left after 14 days.

I'm going to look for a specific post to show this.....

~Haz~

**Hazard** · 09-09-2009, 04:26 PM

OK - here is a thread that shows how test levels rise..... Test Injection Frequency Graphs

Prop does peak sooner which we all knew but just because you inject enanthate doesn't not mean it's not active in your system. essentially..... If you were to do this switch..... i would use it with the prop for 2 to 3 weeks but if it was me.... I would just finish up the prop and do PCT and save the test e for next go.

~Haz~

**BBall6** · 09-10-2009, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Hazard

OK - here is a thread that shows how test levels rise..... Test Injection Frequency Graphs

Prop does peak sooner which we all knew but just because you inject enanthate doesn't not mean it's not active in your system. essentially..... If you were to do this switch..... i would use it with the prop for 2 to 3 weeks but if it was me.... I would just finish up the prop and do PCT and save the test e for next go.

~Haz~

We're pretty much on the same page. I never said that he wouldn't get any test out of his E right away, it just takes a lot longer for the body to get the benefit out of the 500mg injected that week (a much more gradual build than the prop). The prop will also taper off and leave the blood stream much faster as well which will leave a large dip in his test levels. I didn't say there wouldn't be any test, just that it would be much lower for several weeks just as the link you posted illustrates.

**BBall6** · 09-10-2009, 07:25 AM

Also note that there are twice as many days in the Enanthate graphs than there are in the prop graphs so that they are being looked at correctly.

**sigman roid** · 09-10-2009, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by BBall6

We're pretty much on the same page. I never said that he wouldn't get any test out of his E right away, it just takes a lot longer for the body to get the benefit out of the 500mg injected that week (a much more gradual build than the prop). The prop will also taper off and leave the blood stream much faster as well which will leave a large dip in his test levels. I didn't say there wouldn't be any test, just that it would be much lower for several weeks just as the link you posted illustrates.

I agree blood levels wont be stable until a few weeks after he stops the prop and we all know its better to have as stable blood levels as possible

**shread** · 09-11-2009, 06:20 AM

im not certain, but maybe find out if you can start the test e about 3.5 weeks before your test p runs out?? then when your test levels are about to go down from the prop, the test e should start to work. thats if you have enough to last another 3.5 weeks.

**Ljavy17** · 09-11-2009, 09:07 PM

Yeah I have enough for about 13 More MLs. 100mg/ML, Im going to wait for the Letro Then start at .25mgs EOD.

**Ljavy17** · 09-11-2009, 09:11 PM

And start the Test E at 250mgs/week.
Once I start the Test E I will Shoot Mon/Wed/Fri Shots of 80Mgs of Prop for The first week.
Second Week I will Shoot 250mgs/Test E week and 80Mgs of Prop.
Third Week I will shot 325Mgs of Test and 60Mgs (3 times a week) of Prop.
Fourth Week I will Do 325Mgs of Test E.
I will Also Be Doing Letro at .25mgs EOD and proviron at 25mgs ED.

**shread** · 09-14-2009, 12:14 AM

sounds good in theory but still i havent tried this, so dont hold me to it. but yeah i'd do what your doing

**roid_rage** · 09-14-2009, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by BBall6

We're pretty much on the same page. I never said that he wouldn't get any test out of his E right away, it just takes a lot longer for the body to get the benefit out of the 500mg injected that week (a much more gradual build than the prop). The prop will also taper off and leave the blood stream much faster as well which will leave a large dip in his test levels. I didn't say there wouldn't be any test, just that it would be much lower for several weeks just as the link you posted illustrates.

I think you are mistaken my friend, if it is like you say, then a 14 weeks cycle should've taken like 32 weeks, if you are going to wait till every mg kicks in from every single shot (assuming you are shooting once a week). Test peak levels are achive by the accumulation of test in your body, you will reach the peak slower if you use a long acting ester, but once is there, it will be there for as long as you are shooting test... The Cyp and E is the perfect example, you said that because the Half life of the ester is the same, you pick it up where you left it because the esters have similiar half life, and its not accurate, you pick up wehere you left it because you have achive a certain ammount of test in your body, it has nothing to do with the ester, keeping stable your blood levels has to do with the ester though.. the same will happen with switching prop to E, your levels are going to be up there, may be you will get a little gap, because of the last shot of prop will be out by day 4, but the whole ammount of test that you have achived by that date wont all the sudden dropped to 0... It will be like this, by week 3 you have "x" test level on your body, if you are shooting cyp, the last shot will still be releasing test for 12 days, so some of it will be mix with some mgs of the new shoot, that will keep test levels stable and by accumulation, by week 3 you start to feel the efects... what will happen with prop? well the gap will be of about 6 days, and your levels will drop a little bet for that gap, since the prop will totally release the whole test in 4 days, while the E will release the whole ammount of the test in 10 days, so basically its a 6 day gap were your test levels will change, but is nothing like gonna run out of test for 21 days till the E starts working...

So I really think just keept the cycle going, it wont f***k your cycle up, may be 1 o 2 pounds at much, but that isnt much, not enough to make the whole cycle go to hell.... at least IMHO....

**Ljavy17** · 09-14-2009, 04:43 PM

Roid Rage you pretty Much really Summed it all up nicelly. Thanks for some Good solid Knowledge Breakdown.

**roid_rage** · 09-14-2009, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Ljavy17

Roid Rage you pretty Much really Summed it all up nicelly. Thanks for some Good solid Knowledge Breakdown.

tx man, glad you could understood what I was trying to say, english isnt my first lenguage....

**BBall6** · 09-17-2009, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by roid_rage

I think you are mistaken my friend, if it is like you say, then a 14 weeks cycle should've taken like 32 weeks, if you are going to wait till every mg kicks in from every single shot (assuming you are shooting once a week). Test peak levels are achive by the accumulation of test in your body, you will reach the peak slower if you use a long acting ester, but once is there, it will be there for as long as you are shooting test... The Cyp and E is the perfect example, you said that because the Half life of the ester is the same, you pick it up where you left it because the esters have similiar half life, and its not accurate, you pick up wehere you left it because you have achive a certain ammount of test in your body, it has nothing to do with the ester, keeping stable your blood levels has to do with the ester though.. the same will happen with switching prop to E, your levels are going to be up there, may be you will get a little gap, because of the last shot of prop will be out by day 4, but the whole ammount of test that you have achived by that date wont all the sudden dropped to 0... It will be like this, by week 3 you have "x" test level on your body, if you are shooting cyp, the last shot will still be releasing test for 12 days, so some of it will be mix with some mgs of the new shoot, that will keep test levels stable and by accumulation, by week 3 you start to feel the efects... what will happen with prop? well the gap will be of about 6 days, and your levels will drop a little bet for that gap, since the prop will totally release the whole test in 4 days, while the E will release the whole ammount of the test in 10 days, so basically its a 6 day gap were your test levels will change, but is nothing like gonna run out of test for 21 days till the E starts working...

So I really think just keept the cycle going, it wont f***k your cycle up, may be 1 o 2 pounds at much, but that isnt much, not enough to make the whole cycle go to hell.... at least IMHO....

Just a clarification, that is a half life. Only half would be gone in that example.

And once again, I never said his test levels would go to "0", I said their would be a large dip in them. I went ahead and plotted a graph illustrating the half lives of shooting 500mg of test prop/wk shot ED for 16 days (it doesn't matter if it goes longer bc it has already pretty much plateaued), Then starting the day after the last shot of prop starting test E at 500mg/wk shot twice a week.

The chart illustrates the only point I was trying to make. That their would be a substantial dip in test levels for several weeks, not that they would be gone.

**BBall6** · 09-17-2009, 05:32 PM

And LJavy, I think what you are doing is probably about the best solution given what you are trying to do. You could always calculate out the half lives and shots exactly and in theory maintain a completely level test in your body, but you should at least avoid the large dip with what you are doing.

And post how often you are shooting everything that you listed above. I think you only did it for the prop and I will calculate out your test levels in your body if I get bored this weekend.

**FluffyBeginner** · 12-20-2014, 05:35 AM

Sorry to jack-

Okay I am going to be honest,

I didn't plan for my first cycle as BEST as I could. Left things for last minute and changed my original plan - was going to run Test P for 7 weeks pinning twice a week, after posting here I changed it to MWF. This is my first cycle, I got some serious good gains these last 4 weeks, especially when upping dosage from 0.5ml to 1ml.

I f****D UP badly. My guy let me down on bringing me a second vial of test prop - on week 4, was going to run it for 8 weeks. Anyways I have about 0.5 - 0.75 ml left of my test prop which I am pinning MWF, so one shot left for Monday, maybe.

The place I am on vacation doesn't really have gym junkies BUT the pharmacies are quite leaniant.
I managed to find some Test Cyprinate from a pharmacy – 100mg /ml for a 10ml vial.

I also found medical grade Test Sust from a pharmacy that they will sell to me over the counter but in 1 ml doses.
Ratio is: Test P 20mg
Test Phenyl: 40mg
Test Isocpriate: 40mg
Benzyl Alchol IP: 0.1ml
Arachis Oil IP q.s.

So I have two options, considering this is only week 4 and I want to finish this cycle.

Option A – Buy the CYP and jump onto that from Monday. My last pin was yesterday for prop. Have maybe 0.5m – 0.75ml left. This is also the cheapest option as they are selling 10ml vials at around 60 dollars each. What dosage and how often should I run it? When should I run PCT – considering I have done 4 weeks of PROP.

Option A - Buy the sust and jump onto that from next week. If so what dosage would you recommend? Each 1ml vial is 10$.

Option C - Cut the cycle short, run some M-Stak and PCT.

This is my first cycle to.

Any advice appreciated!