mid tren/test cycle crisis

**recalledz** · 03-19-2015, 12:51 PM

hi guys! so i started tren /prop acetate cycle about 6 weeks ago. Began with low doses to test the waters (50mg of tren/ 50mg of prop) EOD and started bumping up the tren to 100mg after the second week for 300tren/week and 225mg prop/week. This is my first time using tren and i am currently 170lbs 25 y/o 5'7''

So far results have been disapointing. Started off bulking but i was getting all puffy and and my physique has not changed much. I did gain a bit size (maybe got 10lbs with fat) and vascularity. Also i felt quite strong, but I am nonetheless unsatisfied with my physique.
Since the purpose of this cycle was to gain a bit muscle while staying lean, and then cut for the rest of it, I started about two weeks ago cutting calories and doing more cardio. By this time even without a cycle i would start seeing some change with this same diet/cardio since i cut pretty fast. But no, today i checked myself in the mirror and even more puffiness.

I might add that I am weary of upping my tren dose because even at this dose I have felt some sides (increased heart rate, insomnia, dark pee, fatigued fast) but if there is no other option I might do it.

So my bottle of tren is over and I need to buy another, but because of this issue I have reconsidered and need some advice as to what to do next:
-get tren and up dose
-get tren and winstrol
-get only winstrol
-use another compound

**EquilibriumZ** · 03-19-2015, 01:14 PM

Are you taking ai and antidopamynes?

**mikegilbert1986** · 03-19-2015, 01:28 PM

I've ben on tren for a hot minute started with e now I switched over to tren a. from what you are describing i guarantee your estrogen is high. what happens is the tren takes over and the test converts more to estrogen in easy words. if your using prop i would use it at 50mg eod tops. dude get on a ai now high estrogen literally trashes your whole cycle. i use aromasin at 10mg ed and i use 250 cyp a week. feel great killin it but you gotta choose what your goong to do a surplus or and deficit. if i were you clean surplus you may even lean out a little doing this.

**RangerDanger830** · 03-19-2015, 01:36 PM

Im going to propose another idea concerning your unhappiness with results and you may not like it, but don't disregard it.

You're not big by any means, you're relatively average on a height and weight scale. You're just above the average weight for your height. I consider Tren a fairly powerful compound, very powerful actually. I never touched it myself until I was comfortably over 200lbs.

I think more importantly than gear you need to focus on your diet. Quite frankly at your size you really don't need something as strong as Tren. Just plain plain old test should still yield results, hell, even test/deca .

I took a test only cycle and went from 165-190 in just eight weeks with a great diet and no noticeable net change in fat via calibers. See what I'm saying here?

Maybe share some details about your diet and we can help. This seems to be a multi-faceted issue.

**recalledz** · 03-19-2015, 02:11 PM

Thanks for the inputs.
ok so my diet is basically:
2 scoop whey protein/casein 50/50
whole bread sandwich with eggs
whole almonds handful
Tuna sandwich whole bread
chicken with pasta and vegetables
chicken with whole rice
casein protein before sleep.

I might add that compunds such as aromasin and caber are unheard of here. Poeple here are so ignorant. I talk about this and fellow users look at me as if i was crazy. So far i have only been able to get some natural products, arimdex and clomid.

**recalledz** · 03-19-2015, 02:13 PM

If i lower test dose then there is no need for aromatase inhibitor right? I could just get a prolactin inhibitor? both?

**recalledz** · 03-19-2015, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by mikegilbert1986

I've ben on tren for a hot minute started with e now I switched over to tren a. from what you are describing i guarantee your estrogen is high. what happens is the tren takes over and the test converts more to estrogen in easy words. if your using prop i would use it at 50mg eod tops. dude get on a ai now high estrogen literally trashes your whole cycle. i use aromasin at 10mg ed and i use 250 cyp a week. feel great killin it but you gotta choose what your goong to do a surplus or and deficit. if i were you clean surplus you may even lean out a little doing this.

If i lower test dose then there is no need for aromatase inhibitor right? I could just get a prolactin inhibitor? both?

**EquilibriumZ** · 03-19-2015, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by recalledz

If i lower test dose then there is no need for aromatase inhibitor right? I could just get a prolactin inhibitor? both?

You need both, even people who are on trt (low dose 100mg) some take ai.
Armidex is an ai, start taking it 0.5mg eod, the get bloodwork and adjust from there.
And ya you need prolactin inhibitor too, caber/pramipexole.

I m assuming you arent using hcg , and dont have nolvadex for pct.. Get those too. And use hcg asap

**EquilibriumZ** · 03-19-2015, 02:55 PM

The diet you posted looks really small, calculate calories, it's the amount that matters. You must be getting your macros to grow.

**recalledz** · 03-19-2015, 04:06 PM

Oh I meant nolvadex instead of arimidex .

So here is what im going to do. I will try to find caber and arimidex and continue with my tren /test cycle. However if I dont find it, im taking mikegilberts advice and just use propionate maybe even with deca , and arimidex of course.

**EquilibriumZ** · 03-19-2015, 04:34 PM

What country you live in? They dont have letrozole ?

Honestly i dont see any point in continuing a cycle like yours if you gonna have the high esterogen issues.

I d rather focus on diet

**mikegilbert1986** · 03-19-2015, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by recalledz

If i lower test dose then there is no need for aromatase inhibitor right? I could just get a prolactin inhibitor? both?

both

**mikegilbert1986** · 03-19-2015, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by recalledz

Oh I meant nolvadex instead of arimidex. So here is what im going to do. I will try to find caber and arimidex and continue with my tren/test cycle. However if I dont find it, im taking mikegilberts advice and just use propionate maybe even with deca, and arimidex of course.

i use aromasin and cabar. when you get estrogen in control. you need to count calories, i don't know how active you are but i work full time and lift 5-6 days a week. ok so i need 3500-4000 calories to gain and progress in strenth/weight. high carbs/protein and moderate fat is what you want to do on tren . i don't weigh my self regularly but i do pay attention to my lifts and progression thats most important with the tren cause you can grow and lose fat at the same time so scale isnt something to 100% base witch direction your going. but with your stats you should def rapidly progress if your eating training right. balancing estrogen is the only difficult thing you have to deal with cycling.

**mikegilbert1986** · 03-19-2015, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by recalledz

Oh I meant nolvadex instead of arimidex. So here is what im going to do. I will try to find caber and arimidex and continue with my tren/test cycle. However if I dont find it, im taking mikegilberts advice and just use propionate maybe even with deca, and arimidex of course.

and nolva is a serm which blocks estrogen from give you gyno and is used in pct. ai aromasin /anastrozole/letro bring estrogen down. to totally different things man. yea people can possibly save them self from gyno with a serm, but your still going to have shit sides from high e.

**NACH3** · 03-19-2015, 05:32 PM

Without an AI and DA w/Tren ... IMO... STOP! AI, hCG , DA(since your E2 is probably really high, along w/prolactin raising), must be used from the rip... clomid and Nolva both for PCT!

If you don't have these I would stop and pull BW asap!

**recalledz** · 03-19-2015, 05:37 PM

I know. I just said that the only compounds i find are nolva and clomid. I have these two on hand btw. They are my pct I have that settled already. Now what i do need to find is caber and arimidex .

**NACH3** · 03-19-2015, 05:41 PM

ar-r ... Internationally!

**aesthetix123** · 03-20-2015, 02:10 AM

besides the estrogen problem.. have you counted calories before or do you know how? shout out if yah need a hand working out macros

**recalledz** · 03-20-2015, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by aesthetix123

besides the estrogen problem.. have you counted calories before or do you know how? shout out if yah need a hand working out macros

Yes I have used myfitnesspal alot and though I dont use it as much anymore I do put everything I have eaten in the day once and a while.

**recalledz** · 03-20-2015, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by NACH3

ar-r... Internationally!

I didnt know of this! though I have seen mixed review I may give it a go. But first i will check towns pharmacy that supply nolva and clomid and see if I can get some arimidex from them and caber.

**NACH3** · 03-20-2015, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by recalledz

I didnt know of this! though I have seen mixed review I may give it a go. But first i will check towns pharmacy that supply nolva and clomid and see if I can get some arimidex from them and caber.

Yeah, I don't know where your at, but I can(as well as many members on here) certainly vouch for them!!! Everything I've ever used(for my "research purposes"

)! There liquidex is top notch as well as(well everything from peps to ancilleries, etc)... If ya can't get all your necessities over there than for sure check em out

**mikegilbert1986** · 03-20-2015, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by recalledz

I didnt know of this! though I have seen mixed review I may give it a go. But first i will check towns pharmacy that supply nolva and clomid and see if I can get some arimidex from them and caber.

there is other research sites that are good to go, prices much lower i would never shop there to throw money away!

**NACH3** · 03-20-2015, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by mikegilbert1986

there is other research sites that are good to go, prices much lower i would never shop there to throw money away!

ar-r is extremely loyal to this site! And is also the site sponsor... Please don't say those things(as people/members will think something not so good.... And they've been nothing but great IMHO!!!

**mikegilbert1986** · 03-20-2015, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by NACH3

ar-r is extremely loyal to this site! And is also the site sponsor... Please don't say those things(as people/members will think something not so good.... And they've been nothing but great IMHO!!!

ok sorry i cant erase my comment though. I'm sure ar has good products.

**NACH3** · 03-20-2015, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by mikegilbert1986

ok sorry i cant erase my comment though. I'm sure ar has good products.

Thx, I just wouldn't want to see a great research Co like them to get a bad rep b/c someone said something... By all means if they're was ever an issue you could ask them one on one in their sec.... Thx again!

**recalledz** · 03-22-2015, 10:43 AM

Ok so getting arimidex was easier than I thought (got it locally). Started today, lets see how it goes.

**NACH3** · 03-22-2015, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by recalledz

Ok so getting arimidex was easier than I thought (got it locally). Started today, lets see how it goes.

It's pretty potent(can lower E2 levels by 70% in a single dose)... So start w/a .25mg EOD...

Do you have BW to compare to if you were to pull bloods now? B/c this would also help w/dosing to bring your Estro down...

Did you get a DA, too?

Edit: do not up your Tren dose as prolactin could be an issue(in a bad way) w/out a DA and your elevated E2...

**recalledz** · 03-23-2015, 09:36 AM

I am using .5 mg. Didnt get caber becuase I am not using tren anymore but may get some prami because its the only one available. Since my experience with tren has been so bad, I decided to drop it and go for nadrolone phenylpropionate for the rest of the cycle. I am going to do BW also this week.

**NACH3** · 03-23-2015, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by recalledz

I am using .5 mg. Didnt get caber becuase I am not using tren anymore but may get some prami because its the only one available. Since my experience with tren has been so bad, I decided to drop it and go for nadrolone phenylpropionate for the rest of the cycle. I am going to do BW also this week.

Suggested recommended dose for a-dex is .25mgs eod(pull bloods and adjust if needed....

Also, NPP(Nandrolone Phenyl Propionate - is just Nandrolone in a short acting ester)& is also a progestin so I'd defo have a DA on hand(and get your prolactin checked so you'll know if you need to start taking the DA(Prami/caber)...

**EquilibriumZ** · 03-23-2015, 02:27 PM

And hcg ?

**NACH3** · 03-23-2015, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by EquilibriumZ

And hcg?

Mentioned up top...

good point though... Can't say it enough! Lol

**Samialfa1** · 03-28-2015, 12:20 PM

Has any one tried androxine alpha pharma please

**NACH3** · 03-28-2015, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Samialfa1

Has any one tried androxine alpha pharma please

Start a new thread please.... Thx!

**recalledz** · 04-02-2015, 11:06 PM

hi guys just writing to thank you for all the good advice. Ever since I started the arimidex my strength, energy levels and endurance started to shoot through the roof. I had never felt this power and stamina in my life! Not even in my other cycles... Did not know how important keeping estrogen levels was while doing aas, I frankly believe it is not stressed enough in the forums and guides posted here and in sites elsewhere. For anyone who is doing aas it is imperative to maintain estrogen because it will **** up your gains and I have learned this the hard way.

Whats even more ****ed up is the fact I have discontinued the use of trenbolone and was only using propionate 100mgs EOD. Latest two weeks workouts have been the most awesome workouts in my gym history. Physique is drying up nice and im getting nice vascularization.

So I asked for NPP from new dealer and the moron brings me deca . I specifically asked for the shorter version of deca. So you see what I have to deal with? No one ever uses arimidex nor caber and for pct they will only get nolva.

**NACH3** · 04-03-2015, 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by recalledz

hi guys just writing to thank you for all the good advice. Ever since I started the arimidex my strength, energy levels and endurance started to shoot through the roof. I had never felt this power and stamina in my life! Not even in my other cycles... Did not know how important keeping estrogen levels was while doing aas, I frankly believe it is not stressed enough in the forums and guides posted here and in sites elsewhere. For anyone who is doing aas it is imperative to maintain estrogen because it will **** up your gains and I have learned this the hard way.

Whats even more ****ed up is the fact I have discontinued the use of trenbolone and was only using propionate 100mgs EOD. Latest two weeks workouts have been the most awesome workouts in my gym history. Physique is drying up nice and im getting nice vascularization.

So I asked for NPP from new dealer and the moron brings me deca. I specifically asked for the shorter version of deca. So you see what I have to deal with? No one ever uses arimidex nor caber and for pct they will only get nolva.

Good for you buddy!

It's imperative to control E2 levels as your cycle will/is getting much more successful!

Check out ar-R for any other ancilleries!

GL OP!

**DurkaDurka** · 04-04-2015, 05:55 AM

Shit... i just got arimadex today and wasn't going to start using it until I started tren since at 650 mg test I'm not showing any signs of physical estrogen problems... but now since you said how you felt And your gains not becoming....

I think i need to go get checked this week. But I'll see how arimadex works I'll begin in the morning.

Great thread.

**NACH3** · 04-04-2015, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by DurkaDurka

Shit... i just got arimadex today and wasn't going to start using it until I started tren since at 650 mg test I'm not showing any signs of physical estrogen problems... but now since you said how you felt And your gains not becoming....

I think i need to go get checked this week. But I'll see how arimadex works I'll begin in the morning.

Great thread.

One should always start theyre AI at the beginning of any cycle... Controlling E2 via BW is key(Sbd your running Tren so I hope you have a DA for prolactin as this can cause serious sides aswell, however if your E2 is under control then prolac won't rear its ugly ass head and cause sides like reduced fertility, breast changes, lactation, headaches etc! So just as bad and w/elevated E2 your asking for trouble... Just a heads up...