2nd cycle plan

**hawk14dl** · 06-06-2015, 08:04 AM

Finishing up my first cycle, 500mg test e. I've been using it for a cut. I wasnt dedicated to my diet, but still so far have managed to lose 1.5-2% bf By looking in the mirror. I've also gained strength, even in a deficit. So i think it was a fairly successful cycle.

I'm on trt, so I'll be returning to my therapeutic dose soon.

My fall/early winter bulk cycle will be next. But i have one specific goal in mind. I have a 1rm goal that id like to hit on the bench, I'm training for power to reach the goal.
My next cycle will start so the hormones will peak around my Target date.

So I've come up with two options for this second cycle. Id like to hear opinions.

Either: test e 500mg with dbol 50mg week 1-6
or
test cyp (rx) 200mg with tren a, 40mg eod wk1-10 .

I'd like to add a compound, based on my goals these are the two I've come up with. I know halo would be a better choice, but halo is way too expensive. I'm no professional athlete.

What do you guys think?

**ojm3** · 06-06-2015, 02:28 PM

I think you haven't learned much in between your 1,300+ posts.

**hawk14dl** · 06-07-2015, 09:14 AM

Really? Do explain.

With the exception of tren not being suggested for early users, i don't really see where I've got anything wrong. So please, do tell.

**tectime** · 06-07-2015, 09:34 AM

I'm not very familiar with dbol and the strength gains from it. But tren will make a monster out of you strength wise. My workout weight goes up so much and so fast when on tren I really have to use a lot of self control not to hurt my self. That's just a really light dosing even for your first ride. For me I need/like tes at 300+ tren @ 350/400.

**hawk14dl** · 06-07-2015, 10:22 AM

First time with tren , it would be wise to start low

5x the strength. 40mg eod works out to 140mg/week. 5x the strength of test makes it the equivalent of 700mg test. I'll have 200mg of test on top of that.

I'd rather start low then fight sides, if that makes sense

**NACH3** · 06-07-2015, 10:53 AM

What about drol? It's notorious for strength?! I picked drol over d-Bol in my next cycle... So that's my new compound and from what I've read and heard from experience it's defo good for strength... If diet is on w/plenty of h2o either would be ok but I'll let you know how the drol works

I think adding a higher dose of Nandrolone and an oral(either) could be better for mass gains(you did say bulk right) you can run. It higher w/out the sides of Tren

**tectime** · 06-07-2015, 10:56 AM

It does. And I agree start where you are comfortable, always. Makes for a better blast. Since you are on hrt you have the benefit of keeping tes levels great year round, I don't know your hrt dose so maybe 200 is a big jump for you. For me that's lower than my every week dose but again it's what you are comfortable at. That dosing you proposed is fine if you feel that it is and only you will know how and what true gains you get. So dude I'm not knocking it just stating from what I've tried what I like. You should see some positive results with either one of your two proposed protocols. From what I've been told dbol is pretty good for strength gains also. But from what I know tren will take your strength to an unbelievable level ! I've torn more ligaments and tendons on tren then I care to think about (really only three but all within a two week period cause that's another tren side is it makes me feel bulletproof! Wouldn't stop ! Took me two months down time to get back in the gym and for me a week vacation is all I ever miss in over 5yrs straight. But again man it's good for you it's good to me !

**hawk14dl** · 06-07-2015, 11:07 AM

Drol is actually something i hadn't considered nach. Keep me posted, it's going to be a while before I'm ready for this.

Tec, my trt dose is 120/wk. Puts me in the high 900s. No ai at that dose, I'm planning on .25mg adex 2x a wk with 200mg

**tectime** · 06-07-2015, 11:10 AM

Hey Nach ! I've heard that of drol before also! I've never done orals so no real opinion. And yes deca would pump up size better than tren but the strength level between the two is twice as much. Twice as rough too ! For me deca is smooth as butter, tren is too while on, again that bulletproof feeling but after going back to hrt doses Wow real hard !

**tectime** · 06-07-2015, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by hawk14dl

Drol is actually something i hadn't considered nach. Keep me posted, it's going to be a while before I'm ready for this. Tec, my trt dose is 120/wk. Puts me in the high 900s. No ai at that dose, I'm planning on .25mg adex 2x a wk with 200mg

I can understand the desire of staying ai free while on hrt. And .25x2 wkly pharma should work fine at 200 to keep e at bay. Just check mids, for me upping anastrozole is easy, so many bloods at different doses over yrs it's just look at the log. But again you should see positive results either one of the first two or the one Nach referenced. I don't think there is anything that is better for strength gains than tren .

**davidtheman100** · 06-07-2015, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by NACH3

What about drol? It's notorious for strength?! I picked drol over d-Bol in my next cycle... So that's my new compound and from what I've read and heard from experience it's defo good for strength... If diet is on w/plenty of h2o either would be ok but I'll let you know how the drol works

I think adding a higher dose of Nandrolone and an oral(either) could be better for mass gains(you did say bulk right) you can run. It higher w/out the sides of Tren

If you aren't running Tren with drol i wouldn't run it over Dbol .. Dbol will fuel muscles and highly increase nutrient absorption and increased nitrogen retention.. IGF will increase on Dbol which is most important for muscular hyperplasia = more muscle cells and fibers.. = going past genetic potential.. Anadrol will do none of that and will put lots of water within in you and depending on genetic response much of it can be bloat rather than being stored into the muscle.. Will keep more gains with REAL dbol REAL dbol rather than Anadrol..

**ojm3** · 06-07-2015, 01:24 PM

Id say its the fact that your first cycle you jumped into without a lack of diet. IMHO I think you jerked around and after you started NOT to see gains you claimed you went on aas for the cut. No one uses just test e for a cutting cycle. Especially their first time out the gate.

You lost 1-2% BF on cycle in 10-12 weeks and thats a success? Hardly... You shoulda been able to lose more naturally

And now here you are asking about bringing in Tren and or another compound when you didnt even get it done right with just test. You need to go back to the drawing board get your diet tuned up and put in a proper cycle using just test. You havent even figured out what kinda gains just test e would give you and your wanting to add more.

Im not trying to start some b.s. internet pissing contest im calling it as i see it.

**hawk14dl** · 06-07-2015, 01:30 PM

That's a lot of assumptions there bud.

Yes, my test only cycle was planned to be a cut. It was a first cycle, are you insinuating i should have used a different compound? That would mean you haven't learned much. .

Yes, i went into the cycle with a sound diet plan.

No, i didn't follow the diet. Because pizza.

So, with all due respect, screw your opinions. You're calling it as you see it, but you're looking through stevie wonders glasses

**davidtheman100** · 06-07-2015, 01:40 PM

Hawk i don't think Halo would make any sense for you IMO, and i don't really think you would need to to anything other than a 500mg test e/cyp a week blast with a tweak in your diet this time to really see some better results and even more increased strength. I think the slower you add compounds over time the better base you develop and the healthier you stay while your response to the hormones gets better and better with each time you taper the dosage up. 50mg tren eod you'd see some exceptional fat-loss and strength gains if you ran it for a couple months but at the same time if this is your second cycle, you saw good results from your first one and didn't even do your best on it...I think simply repeating it and doing it right this time could be much more beneficial to you. If you are bored with the way that cycle is..Try to psychologically get past that or try to get some pharm grade so it's a better, more efficient 500mg/week

**ojm3** · 06-07-2015, 01:43 PM

I only assumed one thing, and that was you jerked around then claimed cut. You say im wrong ok np bro.

Because pizza?...right

You dropped 1-2% BF on cycle and called it a success?

Congratulations on doing less than what you could have accomplished naturally.

**hawk14dl** · 06-07-2015, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by ojm3

I only assumed one thing, and that was you jerked around then claimed cut. You say im wrong ok np bro.

Because pizza?...right

You dropped 1-2% BF on cycle and called it a success?

Congratulations on doing less than what you could have accomplished naturally.

I dropped bf, weight, and gained strength. Yes, I'd call that a success. Could it have been better? Of course.

Naturally, yeah i could have lost that bf naturally. At the expense of some strength. I didn't want to lose strength (or slow my progress) while cutting. Hence the cycle

Yeah. Pizza. It's my favorite. every weekend, large supreme deep dish with extra cheese. Make sense why i didn't have more success now?

I'm sorry my first cycle wasnt up to "your" standards. But I'm not here to appease you.

David, i agree with you. I think at a surplus I'd make some great gains on another 500mg cycle. I've progressed through my lifts without fail, even at a deficit. I'm sure the strength gains would be amplified with more fuel.
I'll have to add up my rx gear and see what i could get away with using. I'm sure I'll have enough to run at least 250mg rx and 250mg ugl.
I guess that could be a third option

**ojm3** · 06-07-2015, 02:23 PM

Hey bro you were the one who said you werent dedicated to your diet. If you said that over 1 pizza once a week then theres not much to say. Either way to each their own, we could sit here and go back n forth all day but thats not what this place is about.

If im reading correctly your looking for a bulk cycle this go round? Why not just try test again and eat in a properly mapped out surplus?

**NACH3** · 06-07-2015, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by davidtheman100

If you aren't running Tren with drol i wouldn't run it over Dbol.. Dbol will fuel muscles and highly increase nutrient absorption and increased nitrogen retention.. IGF will increase on Dbol which is most important for muscular hyperplasia = more muscle cells and fibers.. = going past genetic potential.. Anadrol will do none of that and will put lots of water within in you and depending on genetic response much of it can be bloat rather than being stored into the muscle.. Will keep more gains with REAL dbol REAL dbol rather than Anadrol..

Idk about all that - yes d-Bol is great for stretching the mudcles to grow/stimulate those type 2b fibers... DTM water retention is just as notorious on d-Bol than drol of someone doesn't know how to diet! Drol will indeed give GREAT strength gains - and one can cut or bulk on either drol or d-Bol(barring everything is on point diet/training wise - and from people experience I've heard nothing but extraordinary strength gains from both but drol/Tren especially(not to say drol won't go well w-Deca for size and thickness!

Also I'd be pulsing the drol throughout the cycle(or backloading at a higher dose) instead of running as a kicker(& pissing the gains out b4 cycle ends... So there's much more to consider w/each compound - and different ways to run/& or stack it(to get continuous gains throughout cycle - hence pulsing it).... Just my .02

Note** I do agree w/what d-Bol does to the fascia and muscle fibers etc -

**davidtheman100** · 06-07-2015, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by NACH3

Idk about all that - yes d-Bol is great for stretching the mudcles to grow/stimulate those type 2b fibers... DTM water retention is just as notorious on d-Bol than drol of someone doesn't know how to diet! Drol will indeed give GREAT strength gains - and one can cut or bulk on either drol or d-Bol(barring everything is on point diet/training wise - and from people experience I've heard nothing but extraordinary strength gains from both but drol/Tren especially(not to say drol won't go well w-Deca for size and thickness!

Also I'd be pulsing the drol throughout the cycle(or backloading at a higher dose) instead of running as a kicker(& pissing the gains out b4 cycle ends... So there's much more to consider w/each compound - and different ways to run/& or stack it(to get continuous gains throughout cycle - hence pulsing it).... Just my .02

Note** I do agree w/what d-Bol does to the fascia and muscle fibers etc -

Either way good luck i wasn't sure if you were running tren with it or not but since you are alot of the things i was going to say are virtually nullified

**hawk14dl** · 06-07-2015, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by ojm3

Hey bro you were the one who said you werent dedicated to your diet. If you said that over 1 pizza once a week then theres not much to say. Either way to each their own, we could sit here and go back n forth all day but thats not what this place is about.

If im reading correctly your looking for a bulk cycle this go round? Why not just try test again and eat in a properly mapped out surplus?

Yeah, i said i wasn't fully dedicated to my cutting diet. Let's all be honest here, who enjoys cutting? I'm not getting paid for this, nobody will probably even notice. I was losing bf, so i slacked on the diet. Still lost, just drastically slow. But i got to eat food i wanted to eat. That's on me.

Yes this is going to be a bulk in late fall. My plans between now and then are going to be eating at maintenance, possibly a touch below but I'm not set on that.

Test only will probably get me there. I just want to ensure i hit my goal. I have 5 months to add 30 lbs to my bench, basically. There's no doubt the small dose of tren would get me there. The test only should get me there, but i just want to be sure.

I get what you're saying man, believe me. The cycle wasnt a huge success. But it was a success. I don't like dieting. Don't like feeling hungry all the time. It didn't work well for me, especially knowing i wasnt doing it for any reason other then i wanted to.

A bulk? Well hell yeah i can eat. I'm looking forward to it already

**ojm3** · 06-07-2015, 03:09 PM

Depending on where you are with training that 30 lbs in 5 months could be very easily attained or a pipe dream lol but with proper diet training and a aas cycle i dont see why it cant happen. I do ask why a goal for a number?

**NACH3** · 06-07-2015, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by davidtheman100

Either way good luck i wasn't sure if you were running tren with it or not but since you are alot of the things i was going to say are virtually nullified

Thx brother, I'm all ears also!

do you/have you ran d-Bol DTM? What were your experiences?!

**NACH3** · 06-07-2015, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by hawk14dl

Drol is actually something i hadn't considered nach. Keep me posted, it's going to be a while before I'm ready for this.

Tec, my trt dose is 120/wk. Puts me in the high 900s. No ai at that dose, I'm planning on .25mg adex 2x a wk with 200mg

Will do buddy! I'm excited - it won't be for a lil while but I'll mention it in the Diary

**davidtheman100** · 06-07-2015, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by NACH3

Thx brother, I'm all ears also!

do you/have you ran d-Bol DTM? What were your experiences?!

Yes i have. I had "real dbol " apparently is a big difference between that and alot UGL going around..But i never thought dbol was rare to begin with? Guess i took that for granted but anyway...Pumps were insane out the gate and i had a better, tighter, leaner look in the mirror after i was done in the gym, and upon waking up in the morning..Felt great on it, really did. I probably gained between 20-25lbs in my first 3 weeks of that cycle..I was running Test and EQ as well but the dbol made a world of difference..Which is why as you can see i'm such a big advocate..I thought i was going to turn into an estrogen whale and that i needed to use letrozole on-cycle but i was wrong estrogenic side effects were held at bay with 12.5mg aromasin everyday...(that rhymed)..all in all it just gave me the feeling that it was doing something great and the scale was moving constantly while i stayed lean..Nothing like it IMO

**davidtheman100** · 06-07-2015, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by davidtheman100

Yes i have. I had "real dbol" apparently is a big difference between that and alot UGL going around..But i never thought dbol was rare to begin with? Guess i took that for granted but anyway...Pumps were insane out the gate and i had a better, tighter, leaner look in the mirror after i was done in the gym, and upon waking up in the morning..Felt great on it, really did. I probably gained between 20-25lbs in my first 3 weeks of that cycle..I was running Test and EQ as well but the dbol made a world of difference..Which is why as you can see i'm such a big advocate..I thought i was going to turn into an estrogen whale and that i needed to use letrozole on-cycle but i was wrong estrogenic side effects were held at bay with 12.5mg aromasin everyday...(that rhymed)..all in all it just gave me the feeling that it was doing something great and the scale was moving constantly while i stayed lean..Nothing like it IMO

^ + alot more dense and thicker physique..Not like the same thick that test brings

**hawk14dl** · 06-07-2015, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by ojm3

Depending on where you are with training that 30 lbs in 5 months could be very easily attained or a pipe dream lol but with proper diet training and a aas cycle i dont see why it cant happen. I do ask why a goal for a number?

I've just always wanted to press 300 lbs. A year ago with my 225 max i figured it was a pipe dream that would never happen. I lift alone so lifting heavy has never been feasible.
I decided my new years resolution would be to press 300 on my 30 th birthday. I bought a cage and picked back up on a power lifting routine, I've made huge advances In the past 6 months. 50 lbs or so. Coming off worried me, but knowing I'll be going back to my trt dose I'm not quite as worried About losing strength.

i know most don't make number goals. But i did, it's given me motivation to stay structured on the lifting aspect and kept me on track.

My periodized chart shows I'll make it there about 3 weeks early, as long as i don't miss any lifts