Third Cycle: What to stack with Test Enanthate

[Muse]

Hi,

My first cycle:
Andropen 250 (1ml/wk 10 weeks) terrible cycle

My second cycle:
Test E (500mgs/wk 10 weeks + Dbol 3 week kicker)
PCT Nolva&Clomid (40/40/20/20) & (50/50/50/50)
Ran HCG from week 3 to start of PCT @ 500iu weekly
Diet perfect, gained +15lbs kept 12lbs.

Finished PCT about 6 weeks ago, got some time left before I start my third.


Any ideas what dosages, compounds to do? I have 10 amps of Test E (250/1ml)remaining. I do not want to do Deca , it's too suppressive and recovery is shocking, too risky. I am on the fence whether to do a bulk cycle or cut up...


Thanks

[600@50]

Honestly it looks like you did well on the test/dbol cycle. Keeping 12 of 15 lbs is great. I'd run that a couple more times since it works for you. If it's not broke don't fix it.

[mattybee123]

Could I suggest running Eq? Lean gains, decent strength increase with increased vascularity... Overall not a bad compound.

[NACH3]

Honestly it looks like you did well on the test/dbol cycle. Keeping 12 of 15 lbs is great. I'd run that a couple more times since it works for you. If it's not broke don't fix it.

^^^ I agree... If it ain't broke don't fix it... One reason I haven't run Tren yet - Nandrolone is still giving me great results(so I'm going to stick w/it myself again - when that time comes ) - another option is NPP - the shorter ester of Nandrolone....

[mattybee123]

^^^ I agree... If it ain't broke don't fix it... One reason I haven't run Tren yet - Nandrolone is still giving me great results(so I'm going to stick w/it myself again - when that time comes ) - another option is NPP - the shorter ester of Nandrolone....

NPP is amazing, haven't run it personally but a few friends of mine have and that kick in time compared to the deca ester does wonders... I skipped the deca and personally was onto the tren its not as scary as its made out to be.

[NACH3]

NPP is amazing, haven't run it personally but a few friends of mine have and that kick in time compared to the deca ester does wonders... I skipped the deca and personally was onto the tren its not as scary as its made out to be.

I know i could run Tren - but why if I'm getting great results now... Plus it gives me more time to grow into my cycles! Next time

I agree tho - NPP is awesome! That was my last run w/test p/and oral winny backloaded - it was a good one!

[mattybee123]

I know i could run Tren - but why if I'm getting great results now... Plus it gives me more time to grow into my cycles! Next time

I agree tho - NPP is awesome! That was my last run w/test p/and oral winny backloaded - it was a good one!

I guess I jumped the gun a little to be honest, I use it more as a strength compound although the leaning up effects are nice! Whats NPP like for strength ?

[NACH3]

I guess I jumped the gun a little to be honest, I use it more as a strength compound although the leaning up effects are nice! Whats NPP like for strength ?

For me it was great! I ran my test higher than the NPP - I like higher test w/Nandrolone !

If diet and training are on point - i bulked(cleanly) gained 20+lbs and dropped about 4% in bf all while gaining strength(on a caloric surplus - weighed the food but didn't count)... Every lift went up significantly!

And the sides are easier to manage... Just my way of looking at things(believe me if I didn't join this forum Ida ran Tren by now - and not get what I truly can get out of it!

[Muse]

Wow, awesome responses! I agree that's a good idea not to jump too high too soon when things are working. I think it's a throw up between a test e only cycle at 750mgs/week same as my previous but obviously an extra 250mgs.

On the flip side I might go test e/EQ is eq any good? Worth it?
As for NPP it looks like the better deca alternative, but is it shoe EOD or bi weekly?

Thanks!

[NACH3]

Wow, awesome responses! I agree that's a good idea not to jump too high too soon when things are working. I think it's a throw up between a test e only cycle at 750mgs/week same as my previous but obviously an extra 250mgs.

On the flip side I might go test e/EQ is eq any good? Worth it?
As for NPP it looks like the better deca alternative, but is it shoe EOD or bi weekly?

Thanks!

I like your approach - if your gonna add a compound(consider a kicker at the beginning or look into pulsing orals - what oral would you take if you did) - Eq - that's one ive not run(itll raise your hematocrit levels quickly as its for horses - a favorite amongst cyclists for more RBCs = more O2) some like it - itll also increase your appetite if bulking... I've personally never ran it - and from the statements I've read from the Vets here I'll never run it - they all say it's a waste of space in your barrel/syringe lol

NPP is Nandrolone - just a short ester(Phenyl Propionate ) you can pin daily or EOD is just as good! It clears in 3-4 days after last inj(phenyl prop - pct would start at most 4 days after last oin - it's really splitting hairs if you run test prop w/it pct starts 3 days after - you don't necessarily need to run your test a wk longer but I did and just start your pct 3 days after last pin...

[Muse]

I like your approach - if your gonna add a compound(consider a kicker at the beginning or look into pulsing orals - what oral would you take if you did) - Eq - that's one ive not run(itll raise your hematocrit levels quickly as its for horses - a favorite amongst cyclists for more RBCs = more O2) some like it - itll also increase your appetite if bulking... I've personally never ran it - and from the statements I've read from the Vets here I'll never run it - they all say it's a waste of space in your barrel/syringe lol

NPP is Nandrolone - just a short ester(Phenyl Propionate) you can pin daily or EOD is just as good! It clears in 3-4 days after last inj(phenyl prop - pct would start at most 4 days after last oin - it's really splitting hairs if you run test prop w/it pct starts 3 days after - you don't necessarily need to run your test a wk longer but I did and just start your pct 3 days after last pin...

Thanks for your advice! I'm sitting on the fence a bit, I don't want to stack deca due to its suppressive nature and long recovery, I like EQ because it's weekly pins to coincide with my Test E, I like NPP because it has deca properties without the negatives, but I don't want to do NPP because it's EOD pins... Haha, help

As for ovals I do have some DBol left, but can easily get another if it will work better with my new cycle.

Again, thanks for all the advice.

[NACH3]

Thanks for your advice! I'm sitting on the fence a bit, I don't want to stack deca due to its suppressive nature and long recovery, I like EQ because it's weekly pins to coincide with my Test E, I like NPP because it has deca properties without the negatives, but I don't want to do NPP because it's EOD pins... Haha, help

As for ovals I do have some DBol left, but can easily get another if it will work better with my new cycle.

Again, thanks for all the advice.

I'd go w/a test e d-Bol kicker if you don't want to try the NPP - or a smile test e cycle like you mentioned but maybe frontload some prop 1-4

Gave you ran Eq b4?? If not how long were you thinking of running it?? I think there's better compounds out there but I've never ran it(some love it most hate it

[Muse]

Never ran EQ, I'm trying to decide whether it'll be worth it (I've heard bad reviews, and any I've heard require 16+ week cycle. So do a 750mg test only cycle with a 4 week Dbol kicker at around 30mgs?

Is there any other feasible compounds to stack?

[NACH3]

Never ran EQ, I'm trying to decide whether it'll be worth it (I've heard bad reviews, and any I've heard require 16+ week cycle. So do a 750mg test only cycle with a 4 week Dbol kicker at around 30mgs?

Is there any other feasible compounds to stack?

Have you ever ran sust? Sust and d-Bol would be another good one... If you run the d-Bol - look into pulsing the oral throughout the cycle(say about 14days on 10 off - it'll reduce the sides and produce more gains than sides - if you start to experience sides then you've pulsed it to long- drop for those 10 days then repeat(but drop earlier than time b4 - 10 days maybe - it's something that you'll have to figure out - I'll be doing this w/my drol next cycle...

[mussina123]

Honestly it looks like you did well on the test/dbol cycle. Keeping 12 of 15 lbs is great. I'd run that a couple more times since it works for you. If it's not broke don't fix it.

Being new im curious if he ran the same exact cycle, would you expect similar results, or would you need to up the dose to get simliar results??

[NACH3]

Being new im curious if he ran the same exact cycle, would you expect similar results, or would you need to up the dose to get simliar results??

If diet and training are on point the same cycle should produce the same or better results(diet depending) - if running a test only cycle for a third - I'd up my dose, not much but I like going from 500 to at least 600+ depending if I'm running test e/or c(700-750mgs wkly)!or prop(600-650mgs wkly)

[Muse]

TEst only cycle again with a Dbol kicker I'll read into pulsing ovals. The test e I currently have is 250mg per ampule. Should I buy another brant in a 10ml vial and mix the two to around 600mg per week or is 3 amps at 750mg also ok or too big of a jump from my previous cycle at 500mg?

Thanks.

[NACH3]

TEst only cycle again with a Dbol kicker I'll read into pulsing ovals. The test e I currently have is 250mg per ampule. Should I buy another brant in a 10ml vial and mix the two to around 600mg per week or is 3 amps at 750mg also ok or too big of a jump from my previous cycle at 500mg?

Thanks.

I wouldn't mix two different brands in a vial(no) - if it's 250mg/ml then you could run 750mgs wkly(I think w/d-Bol your AI may be a tad harder to dial in)

That's a ? Only you can answer - or bump it up to 650 first... It's all up to you... What are you running for an AI - HCG on cycle right?!

[thephoenix25]

Just an FYI : I have 250mg amps (test e). On my last cycle I injected E3D which works out as 583mg pw. If you want to up the dose, but not by 250, this is a viable method.

[Muse]

I wouldn't mix two different brands in a vial(no) - if it's 250mg/ml then you could run 750mgs wkly(I think w/d-Bol your AI may be a tad harder to dial in)

That's a ? Only you can answer - or bump it up to 650 first... It's all up to you... What are you running for an AI - HCG on cycle right?!

Thanks thephoenix I didn't think of that, may help with pinning less volume too! As for an AI I use adex, approx 0.25 EOD to 0.5 EOD. Hcg I ran from weeks 3 to 13.5 then started PCT in week 14. Test was ran weeks 1-10.

For my new cycle, I'll either do what Phoenix suggested at 250mg e3d. Or go ahead with EQ, has any one used EQ? I'd like a review when used in terms of a bulking cycle as opposed to deca . Thanks

[NACH3]

Eq will increase your appetite but it's more of a leaning out compound(from what I hear - im guessing some add Eq in on a bulk for the increased appetite(also it's very bad on your hematocrit(increased viscosity of your blood - needing to donate more often... I've never ran it...

[Muse]

Sorted! Thanks for the advice, I've decided to do:

[CYCLE]
Wk 1-12 - Test E: 250mg e3d (583mg per week)
Wk 1-4 - Dianabol : 30mg ed
Wk 4.5-14.5 - HCG : 250iu e3.5d (500iu per week)
Wk 1-14.5 - Adex: 0.25 eod (may increase to 0.5 EOD if needed)
(What signs tell you if adex is right dose?)

[PCT]
Wk 15-18 Clomid 50/50/50/50
Wk 15-18 Nolva 40/40/20/20

[SUPPLEMENTS]
Wk 1-6 Milk Thistle 1g ed
Wk 15-18 Creatine 10g ed
Wk 1-18 Fish Oil 1g ed

That look ok? Any suggestions or changes? Thanks again for all your help.

[mussina123]

Sorted! Thanks for the advice, I've decided to do:

[CYCLE]
Wk 1-12 - Test E: 250mg e3d (583mg per week)
Wk 1-4 - Dianabol : 30mg ed
Wk 4.5-14.5 - HCG : 250iu e3.5d (500iu per week)
Wk 1-14.5 - Adex: 0.25 eod (may increase to 0.5 EOD if needed)
(What signs tell you if adex is right dose?)

[PCT]
Wk 15-18 Clomid 50/50/50/50
Wk 15-18 Nolva 40/40/20/20

[SUPPLEMENTS]
Wk 1-6 Milk Thistle 1g ed
Wk 15-18 Creatine 10g ed
Wk 1-18 Fish Oil 1g ed

That look ok? Any suggestions or changes? Thanks again for all your help.

Blood work ~6 weeks in to check E2 level

I'd add NAC for liver b/c of the oral

[Muse]

Blood work ~6 weeks in to check E2 level

I'd add NAC for liver b/c of the oral

Stupidly I didn't get any before or after bloods done for my previous cycles. Therefore I don't know what my normal levels are... Also I feel amazing now and bounced back very quick during PCT. My first cycle took me ages to recover but I feel great, it's been 9 weeks since last jab, (3 weeks since ending 4 weeks of PCT) how long do I wait before starting again.

Anyone from the UK Know how to get bloods done or what to say to doctors?

[thephoenix25]

Time between cycles should be :

last cycle time + PCT (including time between cycle and pct)

So a 12 week cycle + 2 weeks between + 4 weeks PCT = 18 weeks until next cycle

[Muse]

Slight change to my proposed cycle,

1-12 testosterone enanthate @ 600mgs/week
1-4 dianabol @ 30mgs/day
3.5-13.5 HCG @ 250iu/3.5 days
1-13.5 armidex @ 0.25mg/eod

PCT: (weeks 15-18)
nolva / clomid: 40/40/20/20, 50/50/50/50

SUPPLEMENTS:
1-18 fish oil
1-5 NAC
12-18 creatine

Questions:
1) should the test e (300mg/ml) be pinned 300mg every 3.5 days or just once per week at 600mg?

2) is my HCG dose ok? I only have 10 weeks worth being a (5,000iu) vial.

[thephoenix25]

1) 300mg e3.5d
2) It is recommended to run HCG from week 1 till 4 days before PCT, but some do start later than week 1. I skipped some HCG shots to stretch 5000iu over 12 weeks last time and got significantly more testicular atrophy and recovery seemed a little harder. I will always go from week 1 from now on.

ps clomid 75/50/50/50 nolv 40/20/20/20

[Muse]

1) 300mg e3.5d
2) It is recommended to run HCG from week 1 till 4 days before PCT, but some do start later than week 1. I skipped some HCG shots to stretch 5000iu over 12 weeks last time and got significantly more testicular atrophy and recovery seemed a little harder. I will always go from week 1 from now on.

ps clomid 75/50/50/50 nolv 40/20/20/20

Thanks great advice, does anyone else agree I should buy another vial of HCG to run it from weeks 1 all the way through instead of starting at week 3.5.

[NACH3]

1) 300mg e3.5d
2) It is recommended to run HCG from week 1 till 4 days before PCT, but some do start later than week 1. I skipped some HCG shots to stretch 5000iu over 12 weeks last time and got significantly more testicular atrophy and recovery seemed a little harder. I will always go from week 1 from now on.

ps clomid 75/50/50/50 nolv 40/20/20/20

I too started it late on my first cycle - wk 3-4 as well... Recovery was hard - but I also found out another underlying issue... Yes I would start it from wk 1 throughout cycle up to 3 days b4 pct(note one day won't make or break anything)

I'd get another vial.. You'll use it in the future... Keep in cool dark place...

[Muse]

I too started it late on my first cycle - wk 3-4 as well... Recovery was hard - but I also found out another underlying issue... Yes I would start it from wk 1 throughout cycle up to 3 days b4 pct(note one day won't make or break anything)

I'd get another vial.. You'll use it in the future... Keep in cool dark place...

Thanks man, other underlying issue?
Also completely irrelevant was going to ask, are people on TRT because they never recovered after a PCT or is it just a condition?

[NACH3]

Thanks man, other underlying issue?
Also completely irrelevant was going to ask, are people on TRT because they never recovered after a PCT or is it just a condition?

Can be both - I had head/testicular trauma... But recovery is the game we play... If you follow Austinites protocols your body is much more able to re-adapt to homeostasis - recovery! He lays out every preventative detail...

I truly believe that it was the accident that did it(timing is right etc) and now have been diagnosed w/primary hypogonadism(this does not mean in any way that you will not recover - it's a completely different situation! Run your AI HCG (from beginning) and pct w/clomid/& nolva!

[thephoenix25]

are people on TRT because they never recovered after a PCT or is it just a condition?

Both. There is a whole forum here for those on TRT if you want to know more, I'm no expert, but this is how I understand it:

Not all people on TRT have taken steroids and been unsuccessful in their recovery. For those who have low testosterone and haven't used steroids, it is more often that their bodies natural testosterone production has slowed down for some reason. Young people are most likely to have higher testosterone levels but this lowers naturally as we age. A man in his 60s or older "may" have a significantly lower testosterone than a man in his teens. For some, as the testosterone production lowers it becomes sub optimal and the body struggles without it, which is where TRT can be used to give the body the testosterone levels it needs. "Optimal" varies significantly from person to person for many reasons. One persons body may function perfectly well at a level of 350mg/dl, whilst another persons body would struggle, but if you are not producing optimal natural testosterone for your body you will experience a whole range of unpleasant symptoms (similar to those you will experience during PCT).

If you don't fully recover from your cycle, put simply, it means that after your cycle and PCT your body is not naturally producing testosterone at optimum levels for your body. This may or may not return to normal in time, this is the risk we take. If it doesn't, your body will need testosterone like those who naturally have low testosterone and hence TRT is an option.

There are a lot of different causes of low testosterone, thyroid problems, drugs / medication, injury etc and of course steroid use .

[Muse]

Thanks for the advice, my sups have arrived in prep for the next cycle in around 14-15 weeks time. Anyone tried this brand?

199ebd2f.jpg Photo by Daniel_R5GTT | Photobucket

[mike198]

Run the test and dbol again. I think HGH would make a nice addition even at just 2 IU's per day. I plan on adding HGH to my next (second) cycle.

[Muse]

Run the test and dbol again. I think HGH would make a nice addition even at just 2 IU's per day. I plan on adding HGH to my next (second) cycle.

2iu??
You mean 200iu? X2 weekly.

Anyone used europharma testoviron in my above post? There's a pic at that link

[thephoenix25]

2iu??
You mean 200iu? X2 weekly.

Anyone used europharma testoviron in my above post? There's a pic at that link

The guy above is talking about HGH (human growth hormone ) not HCG , and unless you have oodles of money I'd forget that idea, most HGH is fake anyway unless you can get it from a doc. From my understanding HGH is run for months not weeks.

I have no experience in that brand test before.

[Muse]

My photos 1 month after PCT of first cycle. Taken today. ,
Ive been out of gym 1 month due to moving home back into it now though and diets back in tune.

[Muse]

Will be starting the cycle discussed in this thread around the second week into September. Thus giving me the correct waiting time between my two cycles for 2015.