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Thread: AI + HCG dosage question

  1. #1
    talllifter is offline New Member
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    AI + HCG dosage question

    Hey all, question about the above
    On 500mg test e per week
    200mg EQ per week- don't wanna hear what people have to say about eq so please don't comment about that.

    I have arimadex and HCG now, finally came in. Been on for about 4 weeks.
    Shot days are Mon and Thur, what days do I dose the arimadex and hcg and how much?
    Something like this:
    Mon/Thur - pin
    Tue/fri- HCG (how much) .2?
    And every other day arimadex ? .25mg?

    Let me know
    Cheers

  2. #2
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    Pin the HCG in the same syringe if you like. If not, any two days (or 3 actually) at 250 iu's.
    I'd probably run a week of adex at .5 eod and then drop back to .25. Problem is you have no clue where your E2 currently sits at, nor where it will be on .25 eod but I'd err on the side of being a little to high then to low.

    After about 3 weeks at .25 I'd check your E2 to see where you lie and adjust. Always try to wait until you have everything in hand in the future. Best of luck.
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    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    OP I don't mean to bust your balls, but how could you be in week 4?

    When we spoke on 4/18 you hadn't began your cycle yet.

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    talllifter is offline New Member
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    Sorry mate but what is E2? Estrogen something? So week of arimadex at .5 per day then go to .25 every other day I'm not pinning or hcg . The HCG came with separate insulin needles so I'll use them.

    Numbere nah man you must be mistaken when we spoke I was 2 weeks in..wasn't pre cycle talk

  5. #5
    talllifter is offline New Member
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    Kel kel what can happen if E2 is to high? And I get it checked via bloods?

    I have mates and know heaps of people who do cycles and never run arim or hcg ..

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    chab is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by talllifter View Post
    Kel kel what can happen if E2 is to high? And I get it checked via bloods?

    I have mates and know heaps of people who do cycles and never run arim or hcg..
    yea that's what causing me to be in dilemma, I know tons of brainless people who cycle without any AI or clomid or nolva and they are fine and have like 3-4 kids and never ran a blood test and when i talk about blood tests or estrogen level or sperm count they start laughing at me .... The only thing i notice is that after their cycle they loose like 90% of what they gained ...
    And i don't mean to encourage any1 here to cycle without getting the proper education and using everything possible to run a safe cycle but just saying what i am seeing in many gyms
    Last edited by chab; 05-07-2016 at 04:49 AM.

  7. #7
    AR's King Silabolin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by talllifter View Post
    Hey all, question about the above
    On 500mg test e per week
    200mg EQ per week- don't wanna hear what people have to say about eq so please don't comment about that.

    I have arimadex and HCG now, finally came in. Been on for about 4 weeks.
    Shot days are Mon and Thur, what days do I dose the arimadex and hcg and how much?
    Something like this:
    Mon/Thur - pin
    Tue/fri- HCG (how much) .2?
    And every other day arimadex ? .25mg?

    Let me know
    Cheers
    we have to know your fatlevel in % to give a good suggestion for an ai-dose

  8. #8
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by talllifter View Post
    Sorry mate but what is E2? Estrogen something? So week of arimadex at .5 per day then go to .25 every other day I'm not pinning or hcg. The HCG came with separate insulin needles so I'll use them.
    E2 Sensitive is the proper estrogen test to obtain. Standard estradiol is geared to women. .5 EOD is what was stated, then .25 eod.


    Quote Originally Posted by talllifter View Post
    Kel kel what can happen if E2 is to high? I have mates and know heaps of people who do cycles and never run arim or hcg..
    There are numerous side effects from high E2. The seemingly most concerning to bodybuilders would be gynocomastia but the internal and unseen side effects can be much worse. Lipid issues, stroke risk, loss of libido and more. I'd also bet your friends don't ever get blood work either. Their idiots quite honestly. They only care about how they look on the outside. Hopefully, they don't pay a price later in life. Odds are they'll end up on TRT decades earlier than needed. Just because they're doing it wrong doesn't mean you should.

    Quote Originally Posted by chab View Post
    yea that's what causing me to be in dilemma, I know tons of brainless people who cycle without any AI or clomid or nolva and they are fine and have like 3-4 kids and never ran a blood test and when i talk about blood tests or estrogen level or sperm count they start laughing at me .... The only thing i notice is that after their cycle they loose like 90% of what they gained ...
    Ignorance is bliss, right?
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  9. #9
    talllifter is offline New Member
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    100% hence why I'm here, I've had blood work, I'm not going to be silly about it my health is what I care about most more than muscles.

    Now I'm going to run these things anyway but this is what I've also been told, I don't really believe it..let's see what you guys say.. This is what I got told

    - HCG during cycle is useless " there is no point in keeping your natural test going when your using steroids trying to shut it down, it makes no sense and is a waste of time, use it post" exactly their words... And that came from a big 50yrold body builder..wtf?
    -Arimadex - they said "not healthy, not smart taking during, if issues use nova less damaging" their words also....

    Thoughts?

  10. #10
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Thoughts are that they are decades behind in their science and have not cracked open a book in years. Old school was to run it post cycle such as the Scally Power PCT Protocol or similar. But science evolves and there's really no point in totally shutting down your testicals. Seriously, is there a body part you're willing to let wither and shrink and just hope it bounces back ok later?

    Re adex, again their idiots and cannot back up their erroneous comments with any type of science, other than "bro-science." So this 50 year old is willing to no doubt inject any steroid but adex is suddenly damaging? Think about how stupid that is. Re nolva, it does not do the same thing as adex. Nolva only blocks the estrogen from binding to receptors in your chest it will not control the level of estrogen in your body whatsoever. Another idiotic comment by a 50 yr old who should know better. If these guys are in your social circle, don't listen to them regarding AAS as they'll get you hurt. Take some time and read all the sticky threads here. You can learn a lot.

    Take a look at this excerpt from an Andrology Journal on the effect of HCG while on testosterone :

    A known critical element in the development of healthy spermatogenesis is high intratesticular testosterone.13 In men using exogenous testosterone, these levels can be greatly diminished. Intramuscular human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) therapy is an option shown to protect against, or at least to diminish, the impact that exogenous testosterone has on intratesticular testosterone levels. In a randomized, controlled trial of 29 healthy men randomly assigned to four groups, testosterone enanthate was given 200 mg per week plus either intramuscular saline, 125, 250, or 500 IU hCG every other day. Sperm, intratesticular testosterone levels, and gonadotropins were measured at day 0 and day 21. Intratesticular testosterone levels were suppressed by 94% in the placebo group, 25% in the 125 IU hCG treatment group, and 7% in the 250 IU hCG treatment group, and they were increased 26% from baseline in the 500 IU hCG treatment group.13 Thus, even with supraphysiologic doses of testosterone replacement, healthy levels of intratesticular testosterone were maintained by low-dose hCG therapy.
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  11. #11
    AR's King Silabolin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Thoughts are that they are decades behind in their science and have not cracked open a book in years. Old school was to run it post cycle such as the Scally Power PCT Protocol or similar. But science evolves and there's really no point in totally shutting down your testicals. Seriously, is there a body part you're willing to let wither and shrink and just hope it bounces back ok later?

    Re adex, again their idiots and cannot back up their erroneous comments with any type of science, other than "bro-science." So this 50 year old is willing to no doubt inject any steroid but adex is suddenly damaging? Think about how stupid that is. Re nolva, it does not do the same thing as adex. Nolva only blocks the estrogen from binding to receptors in your chest it will not control the level of estrogen in your body whatsoever. Another idiotic comment by a 50 yr old who should know better. If these guys are in your social circle, don't listen to them regarding AAS as they'll get you hurt. Take some time and read all the sticky threads here. You can learn a lot.

    Take a look at this excerpt from an Andrology Journal on the effect of HCG while on testosterone :

    A known critical element in the development of healthy spermatogenesis is high intratesticular testosterone.13 In men using exogenous testosterone, these levels can be greatly diminished. Intramuscular human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) therapy is an option shown to protect against, or at least to diminish, the impact that exogenous testosterone has on intratesticular testosterone levels . In a randomized, controlled trial of 29 healthy men randomly assigned to four groups, testosterone enanthate was given 200 mg per week plus either intramuscular saline, 125, 250, or 500 IU hCG every other day. Sperm, intratesticular testosterone levels, and gonadotropins were measured at day 0 and day 21. Intratesticular testosterone levels were suppressed by 94% in the placebo group, 25% in the 125 IU hCG treatment group, and 7% in the 250 IU hCG treatment group, and they were increased 26% from baseline in the 500 IU hCG treatment group.13 Thus, even with supraphysiologic doses of testosterone replacement, healthy levels of intratesticular testosterone were maintained by low-dose hCG therapy.
    I dont know who the author is. Maybe its many but if you read the steroid profiles at this site you will see he suggests that serms should be your first line in fighting e2 cause their actually good for cholestrol. Use ais just when its damned necessary. I have no personal data to back this up but I know i fear bad cholestrol values alot more than a little elevated e2 which will shrink fast post cycle when your test is gone
    Last edited by AR's King Silabolin; 05-07-2016 at 10:48 PM.

  12. #12
    talllifter is offline New Member
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    Yeah its a tricky one
    Does everyone agree that its worth running HCG during the cycle? 250iu every 3rd day?

    Arimadex does sound unhealthy and sounds a little silly to take.. So I'm sort of stuck in the middle...
    ??

  13. #13
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    This is like reading a thread from 2010.

    Yes, take 250IU of hcg every 3 days, beginning on day one and ending 2-3 days before PCT.

    AIs do not harm your cholesterol and need to be taken when using a supraphysiological amount of test.

    Doing 10 minutes of research could have would nave netted these results.

    *Aromasin (Exemestane) vs Arimidex (Anastrozole) Unraveled*

    An update to the Crisler HCG protocol

  14. #14
    talllifter is offline New Member
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    Mate, what's with the attitude from you?
    Thanks for the feedback and links but last time I checked this is a "forum" for communication, questions and interaction from other users. You don't get that from a article. You may know more than others but this is the whole point for people who dont! So if this is so 2010 for you.. Scroll on.

    Cheers

  15. #15
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    Best of luck with your eq cycle OP.

  16. #16
    talllifter is offline New Member
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    LOL your funny.
    Cheers..going well so far everything's starting to kick in

  17. #17
    AR's King Silabolin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by talllifter View Post
    Mate, what's with the attitude from you?
    Thanks for the feedback and links but last time I checked this is a "forum" for communication, questions and interaction from other users. You don't get that from a article. You may know more than others but this is the whole point for people who dont! So if this is so 2010 for you.. Scroll on.

    Cheers
    Its ok. Numbere is cool, but he is a little off for the time being. Sleepingproblemes, love...Who knows.
    Just pay attention to his info and forget his pointers at you. Its only temporary.

  18. #18
    talllifter is offline New Member
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    Lol. Poor guy
    His info can be helpful

  19. #19
    chab is offline Junior Member
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    Yesterday i had a long conversation with an experienced bodybuilder who did many cycles before. He was talking about whether to get a 250 IU HCG every 3-4 days or get a 5000 IU after cycle (1 or 2 shots post cycle), the 250 IU will keep ur natural test functioning and prevent hypogonadism and shrinkage which makes it easy to recover ur natural test post cycle, where not taking any HCG during cycle will result in total shutdown of ur natural testosterone so u try to "give an electrical shock" to revive it with huge amounts of HCG 5000 IU which most of the time works but u will be risking total shutdown of ur natural testosterone for long time and loss of all the gains due to high cortisol.

  20. #20
    talllifter is offline New Member
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    Chab, and what did he prefer? The weekly or the post electric shock amount?
    Thanks for the comment.

    What's your thought on arimadex? I honestly don't like the sound of it due to it's health issues, yes there is articles that say it has no health impacts but then there is also a lot that say it does.

    Cheers

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    chab is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by talllifter View Post
    Chab, and what did he prefer? The weekly or the post electric shock amount?
    Thanks for the comment.

    What's your thought on arimadex? I honestly don't like the sound of it due to it's health issues, yes there is articles that say it has no health impacts but then there is also a lot that say it does.

    Cheers
    If u want my advice, I advise u to run it with cycle as per all the new studies/discussion, although he is doing the 5000 IU post cycle shock method but I think it is risky.
    As per Arimidex , go ahead and do it 0.25 mg EOD, Estrogen has too many side effects to neglect and trust me u don't want gynecomastia . I have lived since childhood with gynecomastia because i was asthmatic and relied on cortisone shots for long times ended up with huge female boobs but I was brave enough to go and had surgery to correct it, trust me I had an awful life, couldn't wear any bright colors and always had to wear T-shirts twice my size not to mention the psychological trauma and people's bullying and abuse. Now i am in an excellent shape with BF 16% and firm chest and i would never risk gyno again.
    As a personal choice i would go with exemestane (Aromasin 25 mg ED) after reading so much about AI.
    Arimidex 0.25 mg EOD and for this short duration will not affect u that much, I know patients who use it for life time for breast cancer with 1 mg ED dose and they are just fine.

  22. #22
    Mr.BB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chab View Post
    Yesterday i had a long conversation with an experienced bodybuilder who did many cycles before. He was talking about whether to get a 250 IU HCG every 3-4 days or get a 5000 IU after cycle (1 or 2 shots post cycle), the 250 IU will keep ur natural test functioning and prevent hypogonadism and shrinkage which makes it easy to recover ur natural test post cycle, where not taking any HCG during cycle will result in total shutdown of ur natural testosterone so u try to "give an electrical shock" to revive it with huge amounts of HCG 5000 IU which most of the time works but u will be risking total shutdown of ur natural testosterone for long time and loss of all the gains due to high cortisol.
    High HCG dosage can desensitize leydig cells in testis, this has been thoroughly discussed here and there are several medical studies posted.

    Sorry, but dont have the patience to dig it out, and the way the OP thanked Numbere help kinda makes me stay out of this thread.

    Ppl like Numbere are here everyday answering the same questions, it gets tiring as most is in Aust sitckies already posted.
    almostgone likes this.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post

    I dont know who the author is. Maybe its many but if you read the steroid profiles at this site you will see he suggests that serms should be your first line in fighting e2 cause their actually good for cholestrol. Use ais just when its damned necessary. I have no personal data to back this up but I know i fear bad cholestrol values alot more than a little elevated e2 which will shrink fast post cycle when your test is gone
    Wow. Your praising untested SARMS over medically tested pharma meds. WTF is up with you and SARMS anyway? You make them or something?

  24. #24
    AR's King Silabolin's Avatar
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    I said serms dickhead..not sarms .....ok, i take that back...you are high in standing..but drink some coffee bro
    Last edited by AR's King Silabolin; 05-08-2016 at 09:03 AM.

  25. #25
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    Keep it nice guys.
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  26. #26
    talllifter is offline New Member
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    Okay great, thanks Chab
    Mr b.b, I've got nothing against numbere but regardless if he sees this stuff everyday or what not, this is what a forum is for is it not? Why should I scroll through hundreds of posts to find something related when I can just ask questions. If he, whomever sees it everyday and doesnt have the patience then scroll on..no big deal...someone will answer/discuss with me. I want to talk to people who have been there and exsperienced this shit.
    Anyway.. Thank you to everyone who got involved in this discussion
    chab likes this.

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