Proviron only suppressed my htpa?, even though it is a fertility drug

[amar7]

Hi,

I think I'm shut down by Proviron I used it in addidtion to hgh, I had weird symptoms, like (excuse me, it's going explicit) my testes changed in size and firmness over the day, aswell as my libido, which sometimes was through the roof with morning wood etc and sometimes rather meh. Used 50-75mg over maybe two weeks, now I quit two days ago to see if this really messed with my htpa and my eq is lower, ball size aswell, though not as bad as the test cycle I did years ago.

Officially most steroids can be actually used as a contraceptive, while Provirons official use was hypogonadism and low sperm count and many studies show that it actually raises sperm count in dosages between 75mg-150. How can this be that it seems to have the opposite effect on me?

Mind you I only quit two days ago, because I really hate being supressed and staying on forever is no option for me, because of cost, it is cumbersome, costy and raises cholesterol.

Any help is appreciated, I would love to use it, because it increased my gym motivation and hardness a bit.

btw, here is a rat study, that had opposite effects on sperm count, but they used a seemingly very high dosage of it of 0,06mg/g bodyweight which would equal 6000mg for a 100kg male
Mesterolone (Proviron) induces low sperm quality with reduction in sex hormone profile in adult male Sprague Dawley rats testis | prof Lukeman Shittu - Academia.edu


Then again studies like these motivated me to give proviron a try:

Mesterolone treatment of patients with pathospermia.

Szollosi J, Falkay GY, Sas M.

The response to Mesterolone, in doses of 25 mg/day, was examined in 42 pathospermic patients. Treatment lasted for 100 days. The pronounced response to the Mesterolone treatment was observed in hypozoo- and oligozoospermia with low initial fructose content in the ejaculate. Fructose content attained its normal range after the treatment. During the therapeutic period 11 wives became pregnant. The authors conclude that Mesterolone does not influence plasma FSH, LH and testosterone levels, it has only peripheral effects.

PMID: 689818 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.

Varma TR, Patel RH.

Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.

Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.

I'm at the point that probably many reach, better physique, but htpa maybe hit

[Couchlock]

Hi,

I think I'm shut down by Proviron I used it in addidtion to hgh, I had weird symptoms, like (excuse me, it's going explicit) my testes changed in size and firmness over the day, aswell as my libido, which sometimes was through the roof with morning wood etc and sometimes rather meh. Used 50-75mg over maybe two weeks, now I quit two days ago to see if this really messed with my htpa and my eq is lower, ball size aswell, though not as bad as the test cycle I did years ago.

Officially most steroids can be actually used as a contraceptive, while Provirons official use was hypogonadism and low sperm count and many studies show that it actually raises sperm count in dosages between 75mg-150. How can this be that it seems to have the opposite effect on me?

Mind you I only quit two days ago, because I really hate being supressed and staying on forever is no option for me, because of cost, it is cumbersome, costy and raises cholesterol.

Any help is appreciated, I would love to use it, because it increased my gym motivation and hardness a bit.

btw, here is a rat study, that had opposite effects on sperm count, but they used a seemingly very high dosage of it of 0,06mg/g bodyweight which would equal 6000mg for a 100kg male
Mesterolone (Proviron) induces low sperm quality with reduction in sex hormone profile in adult male Sprague Dawley rats testis | prof Lukeman Shittu - Academia.edu

Then again studies like these motivated me to give proviron a try:

Mesterolone treatment of patients with pathospermia.

Szollosi J, Falkay GY, Sas M.

The response to Mesterolone, in doses of 25 mg/day, was examined in 42 pathospermic patients. Treatment lasted for 100 days. The pronounced response to the Mesterolone treatment was observed in hypozoo- and oligozoospermia with low initial fructose content in the ejaculate. Fructose content attained its normal range after the treatment. During the therapeutic period 11 wives became pregnant. The authors conclude that Mesterolone does not influence plasma FSH, LH and testosterone levels , it has only peripheral effects.

PMID: 689818 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.

Varma TR, Patel RH.

Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.

Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.

If you would pay attention to posts, and search about proviron, anavar , and some other thought to be "non-suppressive" orals.

You'd have quickly found that, as not suppressive as testosterone, they are ALL SUPPRESSIVE , some not as much as others, but in higher result oriented doses all of them shut you down

Gotta pct it.

Thats why its recommended to go all the way, shut down is shut down, might as well make it worth while

[hammerheart]

Hi,

I think I'm shut down by Proviron I used it in addidtion to hgh, I had weird symptoms, like (excuse me, it's going explicit) my testes changed in size and firmness over the day, aswell as my libido, which sometimes was through the roof with morning wood etc and sometimes rather meh. Used 50-75mg over maybe two weeks, now I quit two days ago to see if this really messed with my htpa and my eq is lower, ball size aswell, though not as bad as the test cycle I did years ago.

Only bloods can prove if you're shutdown. Otherwise your just guessing. What you report about size/firmness is plainly nonsense.

[amar7]

@Couchlockd Well supressed is not the same as shut down, when the balls shrivle like raisins now, I think it is harder to come back one then, even with pct or not?

You said shut down is shut down, you might as well make it worth while, have you done a cycle where you went all the way and PCT could restore your htpa?

@bizarro I guess from the red color, that you are a female, so don't tell me that you know more about my testes state than I do.. There are clear signs that one can notice without blood test when the gonadotropin release is supressed through exogenous aas, which includes testicular atrohpy/changes in firmness as the most obvious one

[Couchlock]

@Couchlockd Well supressed is not the same as shut down, when the balls shrivle like raisins now, I think it is harder to come back one then, even with pct or not?

You said shut down is shut down, you might as well make it worth while, have you done a cycle where you went all the way and PCT could restore your htpa?

@bizarro I guess from the red color, that you are a female, so don't tell me that you know more about my testes state than I do.. There are clear signs that one can notice without blood test when the gonadotropin release is supressed through exogenous aas, which includes testicular atrohpy/changes in firmness as the most obvious one

Well I can tell you havent,

Supression is shut down, just cuzz its slightly functioning don't mean jack shit, t
.Fwiw My test was low prior to cycle, I did just fine at 384ng/dl

If I don't get back to that level, I can trt,

Its already in play, were half my test cyp came from, Dr. Rx.

[amar7]

If I don't get back to that level, I can trt,

that's about it, as I said I'm aware life long trt could keep test at healthy levels, but it is an option I prefer to avoid, because it is cumbersome and the sperm count is reduced on trt.

Proviron is in fact the only DHT androgenic drug that is officially used for hypogonadism and subfertility, which is why I gave it a try in the first place

I guess this quote comes into place for Proviron
"The great tragedy of science - the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact." - Thomas Huxley

[jstone]

Red means knowledgeable member and bizzarro is one of the smartest guys here. Testicular atrophy tells nothing. I was on trt for well over 2 year before mine began to shrink. I was shut down for a couple years before atrophy began. You have no business using any type of hormone with your lack of knowledge.

[DocToxin8]

LH and FSH levels usually start to diminish very quickly with AAS, but it's dose dependent. However, if you haven't shut down LH by about 90% by the second week your either abnormal or not using enough IMO.
(I can see the exception in some cases, sickness f.ex)

So shut down happens quickly.

And measuring ones testicle size yourself, unless you got a "size comparison"
(Like 24-22-20-18ml...) like an ends will use,
IS pretty pointless.

Atrophy of the testicles happens AFTER shut down due to loss of activity in the testicles.

[songdog]

You should know what you are taking and what it does before you take it.This only makes sense but in the world of aas people think just beacuse a friend gave it too him and he looks good it must be safe.EDUCATE BEFORE YOU MEDICATE!

[Bonaparte]

Are you sure that your proviron is legit?

[Mr.BB]

Only bloodwork can tell if you supressed or shut down.

If its real proviron its very doubtfull that it would shut you down, maybe a mild supression.

Furthermore proviron will do zero for your muscles, theres no receptors for it in skeletal muscles.

Lastly, please tone it down with the colors assumptions and attitude. You asked question, very knowdgeable ppl are trying to help, if you dont like the answers at least respect it, or you wont last long here. No flaming rule.

[AR's King Silabolin]

Fertillitydrugs can also be supressive uknow.

[amar7]

You should know what you are taking and what it does before you take it.This only makes sense but in the world of aas people think just beacuse a friend gave it too him and he looks good it must be safe.EDUCATE BEFORE YOU MEDICATE!

I dont have a single friend that takes Proviron and I did all the EDUCATED research by myself, part of which is the 4 studies I posted in the first place, but some people read half through the postings before making unfounded assumtions like yours: "aas people think just beacuse a friend gave it too him and he looks good "

[Couchlock]

I dont have a single friend that takes Proviron and I did all the EDUCATED research by myself, part of which is the 4 studies I posted in the first place, but some people read half through the postings before making unfounded assumtions like yours: "aas people think just beacuse a friend gave it too him and he looks good "

Wow.

So you no it all, what do you want from us.

Either way your shut down from is represented UGL or knockoff proviron , or something else you are not disclosing

Either way, you have all the answers. So what next

[amar7]

Red means knowledgeable member and bizzarro is one of the smartest guys here. Testicular atrophy tells nothing. I was on trt for well over 2 year before mine began to shrink. I was shut down for a couple years before atrophy began. You have no business using any type of hormone with your lack of knowledge.

calling peoples opinions - even if uneducated - " plainly nonsense" is not a sign of knowledgable well-mannered member, rather someone who got arrogant and thinks is something better. And claiming suppressing gonatoropins (FSH/LH that signal the testis to produce sperm and testosterone ) with aas use has no connection to the size and firmness of the testis, clearly shows on whose side the lack of knowledge lays, not undestanding much of htpa basics or steroids .

@cuchlockd: will you be a troll twisting my words around or discussing a dubject like an adult? trying both in one post is confusing mate!

[amar7]

Are you sure that your proviron is legit?

Pretty much legit Bayer stuff, afaik my source is legit Proviron from greece. Yesterday I had really great sex again with a chick btw, I loved it, was rock hard all through, had a good sensation and came within a good time. The anabolic effects- if any- are scarce, but I love the effects on mood and libido this stuff has. I will make an apt with my endocrinologist soon, to see if I can negotiate with him if he can follow me through with this with monthly blood tests and checkups .

[Couchlock]

Pretty much legit Bayer stuff, afaik my source is legit Proviron from greece. Yesterday I had really great sex again with a chick btw, I loved it, was rock hard all through, had a good sensation and came within a good time. The anabolic effects- if any- are scarce, but I love the effects on mood and libido this stuff has. I will make an apt with my endocrinologist soon, to see if I can negotiate with him if he can follow me through with this with monthly blood tests and checkups .

No troll, just asking questions that make one uncomfortable.

Bayer is a pretty well knocked off brand at times, its done cuzz of Bayer reputation.

No one would question a legit looking blister pack of Bayer.

[Jonbana]

why do people come on here for help get help and deny it and get all offensive ? I don't understand this ,

is like when someone is sick they know they are sick people tell them take this to get better but they refused to get better... why bother wasting time than

[Juced_porkchop]

well it does cause shutdown so i think thats your issue likely.
i wouldent have bothered with that, maybe on cycle with test or on hrt dose test but solo with hgh i wouldent have for various reasons such as the above.

[jstone]

calling peoples opinions - even if uneducated - " plainly nonsense" is not a sign of knowledgable well-mannered member, rather someone who got arrogant and thinks is something better. And claiming suppressing gonatoropins (FSH/LH that signal the testis to produce sperm and testosterone ) with aas use has no connection to the size and firmness of the testis, clearly shows on whose side the lack of knowledge lays, not undestanding much of htpa basics or steroids .

@cuchlockd: will you be a troll twisting my words around or discussing a dubject like an adult? trying both in one post is confusing mate!

Bloodwork is the way to find out if your shutdown or suppressed. When my test levels were checked I had 189 total test and single digit free test. My testes stayed the same size and firmness. After starting trt and having basically zero lh/fsh my tetses remained the same for 2 years before they began to atrophy. So based on what your saying I wasn't shut down because my testes hadn't changed at all. Based on why your here I would question your knowledge. Anybody can read a few studies and act like they know something. I speek from experience. You're the one that used a compound that will give virtually zero benefits alone just because some studies claimed it wouldn't surppress lh/fsh. I wont post in any of your threads again, because you're clueless.

[hammerheart]

calling peoples opinions - even if uneducated - " plainly nonsense" is not a sign of knowledgable well-mannered member, rather someone who got arrogant and thinks is something better. And claiming suppressing gonatoropins (FSH/LH that signal the testis to produce sperm and testosterone) with aas use has no connection to the size and firmness of the testis, clearly shows on whose side the lack of knowledge lays, not undestanding much of htpa basics or steroids.

Sorry about that, didn't mean to sound arrogant. What I meant was, changes in testes size/firmness is not something you would get "over the day". About proviron , in physiologic conditions it only goes to displace some DHT/T from SHBG, according to research it's impact on the HPTA is very mild especially at the doses you did. You shouldn't need PCT either.

If you worried or otherwise suspecting issues with your natural production, just run bloodwork, as simple as that.

Have you ever had bloodwork before trying proviron?

[Mr.BB]

well it does cause shutdown so i think thats your issue likely.
i wouldent have bothered with that, maybe on cycle with test or on hrt dose test but solo with hgh i wouldent have for various reasons such as the above.

JP, proviron is quite mild on hpta. Yes it could supress you some, but very hardly shut you down.

OP, like it has been said several times without bloodwork you cant be sure whats going on.