[bizzarro's world] gyno

**hammerheart** · 06-16-2017, 08:53 PM

So duh, just about in time I've got high BP in check yet another issue is on the horizon - over last month, lumps underneath both nips - worst is right one - GP confirmed the presence of palpable mass, he says they are "ductal", I'm now waiting for an echography to assess whether I'm dealing with fluid or hard lumps.

I'm lactating. In fact, this phenomenon started as early as pre-TRT (with total T< 200), prolactin was normal at the time though. At times, it got worse, resulting in spontaneous discharge (the sort of soaking t-shirt). I've tasted it and it's actually reminiscent of raw, unprocessed milk (sorry if it sounds gross).

Prolactin, it has been high at 55 ng/ml as first reading back in Sept. '16. I was just on TRT on the time no 19nors implied, no nothing. I've been on caber for four months then discontinued. It just crawled back to that value.

Progesterones, I've used progestin only bc pills (desogestrel) for its mood and libido boosting properties (yes I function that bizarre) for months and had no issue with breasts.

I've been pretty much high on E2 with high end TRT (250mg weekly) and no AI and had no issue either, only horrible water retention.

What I feel is to blame, is lowering TRT dosage too much (400 through levels on a 2x weekly protocol) , as physiologic androgens do play functional antagonist role respect to estrogen in breast tissue. That, coupled with high prolactin and 19 nors as I'm using now I suppose to be the culprit.

My idea was to run low end TRT with a tad of Tren , but what I used over the last ~six weeks just didn't feel like Tren, as I've used it before. It had some progestin like effects, but very weak, so I'm sure some 19-nors must have been in it. I also have unexplainable water retention all over.

More to come, stay tuned. Who wants photos?

**Obs** · 06-16-2017, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by bizzarro

So duh, just about in time I've got high BP in check yet another issue is on the horizon - over last month, lumps underneath both nips - worst is right one - GP confirmed the presence of palpable mass, he says they are "ductal", I'm now waiting for an echography to assess whether I'm dealing with fluid or hard lumps.

I'm lactating. In fact, this phenomenon started as early as pre-TRT (with total T< 200), prolactin was normal at the time though. At times, it got worse, resulting in spontaneous discharge (the sort of soaking t-shirt). I've tasted it and it's actually reminiscent of raw, unprocessed milk (sorry if it sounds gross).

Prolactin, it has been high at 55 ng/ml as first reading back in Sept. '16. I was just on TRT on the time no 19nors implied, no nothing. I've been on caber for four months then discontinued. It just crawled back to that value.

Progesterones, I've used progestin only bc pills (desogestrel) for its mood and libido boosting properties (yes I function that bizarre) for months and had no issue with breasts.

I've been pretty much high on E2 with high end TRT (250mg weekly) and no AI and had no issue either, only horrible water retention.

What I feel is to blame, is lowering TRT dosage too much (400 through levels on a 2x weekly protocol) , as physiologic androgens do play functional antagonist role respect to estrogen in breast tissue. That, coupled with high prolactin and 19 nors as I'm using now I suppose to be the culprit.

My idea was to run low end TRT with a tad of Tren , but what I used over the last ~six weeks just didn't feel like Tren, as I've used it before. It had some progestin like effects, but very weak, so I'm sure some 19-nors must have been in it. I also have unexplainable water retention all over.

More to come, stay tuned. Who wants photos?

I know i posted a pick of my bruised balls after my abdominal tear but lactating male nipples... thats a bit much isnt it? Lmao!

**kelkel** · 06-17-2017, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by bizzarro

Who wants photos?

Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke

I know i posted a pick of my bruised balls after my abdominal tear but lactating male nipples... thats a bit much isnt it? Lmao!

Negative on the photo's. From either of you......

**Obs** · 06-17-2017, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Negative on the photo's. From either of you......

Its not pornographic if its not being touched is it? Lol

**hammerheart** · 06-17-2017, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke

Its not pornographic if its not being touched is it? Lol

I've already promised friends I'll let touch if them grow big. How good of a friend am I?

**hammerheart** · 06-17-2017, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Negative on the photo's. From either of you......

I'll see if I can get caber prescribed (just for the sake of it), but as for gyno, if it is gyno, there is no treatment available in my country, other than surgery if it is severe. So duh, that's the take of the NHS here.

I could go for a trial of nolva myself, but considering how sensitive I am to AI already I'm really scared to use it.

I'm still dubious over the cause of high prolactin, I wonder if the adenoma grow and the pituitary stalk got compressed or something, so I'll talk those at the NHS to script me with it, but I doubt I will get a positive answer.

I was irritated enough by my GP yesterday (because of much BS), I forgot how much annoying can be to deal with doctors idiosyncrasies.

**hammerheart** · 06-17-2017, 07:13 PM

Today I can more distinctly feel two different small nodules under the left one.

To the more expert here - true gyno should rather feel as one, firm lump, or not? Any experience with fluid cysts in the male?

It's like it grows every day.

**PT1982** · 06-17-2017, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Negative on the photo's. From either of you......

Hahahaha! I'm hurting from laughing.

**kelkel** · 06-17-2017, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by bizzarro

To the more expert here - true gyno should rather feel as one, firm lump, or not?

Fibrous yes. As one, not necessarily. Gyno can and normally is much larger internally than seen or felt externally. Re cysts are you referring to an oil cyst?
I'd try nolva asap for a couple months minimum.

**MuscleScience** · 06-17-2017, 09:43 PM

No photos please, we get the picture...

**KINGKONG** · 06-17-2017, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by bizzarro

Today I can more distinctly feel two different small nodules under the left one.

To the more expert here - true gyno should rather feel as one, firm lump, or not? Any experience with fluid cysts in the male?

It's like it grows every day.

Biz, seems like you spend a lot of time touching the area..I've always heard the stimulation will cause growth..leave them things alone maybe try a run of rolax it seemed to help mine..

**Obs** · 06-17-2017, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by bizzarro

Today I can more distinctly feel two different small nodules under the left one.

To the more expert here - true gyno should rather feel as one, firm lump, or not? Any experience with fluid cysts in the male?

It's like it grows every day.

I had one lump as a teen. Very sensitive and painful when bumped.

**hammerheart** · 06-17-2017, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Fibrous yes. As one, not necessarily. Gyno can and normally is much larger internally than seen or felt externally. Re cysts are you referring to an oil cyst?
I'd try nolva asap for a couple months minimum.

No idea, just fluid as opposite to solid. Perhaps stimulated by chronic high prolactin.

It isn't visible externally really. I just have layers of fat and water retention making the thing look horrid but that's nothing pathological.

I'll pull labs this week for IGF-1 then resume the caber at .25 every third day, I'm concerned if there is any interference by caber on GH, even on that dose.

Originally Posted by KINGKONG

Biz, seems like you spend a lot of time touching the area..I've always heard the stimulation will cause growth..leave them things alone maybe try a run of rolax it seemed to help mine..

Indeed I do (even in public..) and yes stimulating the area goes to activate certain neuron populations involved in prolactin secretion, but mine is already elevated, it shouldn't make a difference.

Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke

I had one lump as a teen. Very sensitive and painful when bumped.

Mine aren't, in fact I never had sensitive nips at any point, no puffyness, no pointy look, no tenderness, no nothing.

**Obs** · 06-17-2017, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by bizzarro

No idea, just fluid as opposite to solid. Perhaps stimulated by chronic high prolactin.

It isn't visible externally really. I just have layers of fat and water retention making the thing look horrid but that's nothing pathological.

I'll pull labs this week for IGF-1 then resume the caber at .25 every third day, I'm concerned if there is any interference by caber on GH, even on that dose.

Indeed I do (even in public..) and yes stimulating the area goes to activate certain neuron populations involved in prolactin secretion, but mine is already elevated, it shouldn't make a difference.

Mine aren't, in fact I never had sensitive nips at any point, no puffyness, no pointy look, no tenderness, no nothing.

Mine was natural gyno during puberty. Oh and I didnt have any visible signs. Just the sensitive knots

**DocToxin8** · 06-18-2017, 07:28 AM

Go for surgery if you can have it. In your country it's free too.
Easy permanent solution.

Can still get some nipple discharge after surgery, but we are taking maybe squeezing out a drop or two.

Did this come about after you started the desogestrel, or was worsened after you started it?
Same goes for puffiness?
Also, your amount of AAS in a week, plus fat, plus no AI, well..... E2!?

If you felt bad on AI, I'd try two things;
1) start with a much lower dose
2) switch AI type

**hammerheart** · 06-18-2017, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by DocToxin8

Go for surgery if you can have it. In your country it's free too.
Easy permanent solution.

Can still get some nipple discharge after surgery, but we are taking maybe squeezing out a drop or two.

Did this come about after you started the desogestrel, or was worsened after you started it?
Same goes for puffiness?
Also, your amount of AAS in a week, plus fat, plus no AI, well..... E2!?

If you felt bad on AI, I'd try two things;
1) start with a much lower dose
2) switch AI type

I've explained this in my first post, desogestrel even at 75mcg die never affected my breast in any way, and I've used that for many months, including times of high E2.

I never had puffiness at any point. Surgery is recommended only for severe gyno and mine isn't visible even. It's an aesthetic procedure, our NHS doesn't subside it I believe, unless it's very severe.

100mg Test should be low enough to allow no AI to be implemented. On a 2x weekly protocol this should have my through (3rd day after pin) levels at 400-500 ng/dl.

I've tried splitting anastrozole 1mg pills into eighties. Exemestane can't touch it.

I guess best solution is to return my bf to previous glory (used to be 10%, now about 22% or so), but the fatigue is killing me and I can't exercise that much.

In the meanwhile, I'm planning to change TRT protocol and move to smaller MWF pins or even EOD.

I feel rather low than high or even normal in E2, but I sense even on a 2x weekly protocol I'm subject to sudden spikes and valleys.

However, by doing that my DHT should also be affected, and that's not good when it comes to ratios, which I believe it's what's at play here. In fact, I believe dialing down Test too low might be well of a factor.

Chest situation (disclaimer: pics)

**DocToxin8** · 06-18-2017, 11:57 PM

Gyno surgery is on the table as long as it's something that affects you mentally,
so you may well get covered.
Actually, I'd say you will get it covered if going to the right doc.

I saw the pics, hard to say but does look like a lot of fluid there too.

Getting BF down will help.
Nolva and surgery, think about it.

**hammerheart** · 06-27-2017, 05:41 AM

Had some bloods results today

IGF-1 190 ng/ml (90-262)
Cortisol 6 ng/ml (6-25)
T, total 698 ng/dl

Total test is intriguing, I'm on 50mg 2x weekly and I pulled bloods at 2.5 days from last pin. Last time I had bloods on this protocol it was 400 on 3.5 days (almost 4). I was indeed feeling like being on "peaks and valleys" so I moved my TRT protocol to 25mg EOD.

The Tren I was pinning was garbage. Moved to low dose tren ace and it's a whole another world, though very short lived.

IGF-1 was 280 just a couple of years ago. It's sad to see it reduced by almost 50% already.

The cortisol, now I understand the fatigue, I've never had a reading that low, it's friggin low, it surely signals my adrenals have given, together with high prolactin and reduced IGF-1, it might point to a potential issue with the small adenoma I was diagnosed with in 2014, so an MRI should be envisaged soon.

A single value doesn't mean that much really, secondary hyposurrenalism is one of the most complicated things in endocrinology to diagnose, it requires dynamic testing to evaluate glands reserve, yet results are seldom conclusive, but if low cortisol persists whatever the reason it might require corticosteroid replacement.

To conclude I hope it's transitory low cortisol and it fixes on its own because I'm growing tired of the shit my own body keeps flinging at me.