Steroids....age?

[Mtmlf1234]

I’ve been thinking about running a bulking cycle of test E and Dbol (obviously with PCT after). I’m wanting to compete in men’s physique in the not too distant future.

Around 1.5 years a go I ran my first and only cycle - test only (300mg prop) for 12 weeks with anastroloze thrown in when gyno started to appear. I ran chlomid and nolvadex for PCT. I put on some alright size but nothing major.

I’m 23 years old and have been training solidly for the last 4 years 5/6 times a week. My training is spot on and I track my macros on a flexible dieting type plan (mostly ‘clean’ foods).

I’m a natural ectomorph and have put on 15kg (33lbs) since I started training. I was an extremely low BFP when I started weight training as I was competing in MMA at a high level.

What are your guys opinion on my age and consideiring using? I’m 5ft11, 178lbs, around 13% body fat.

I’m really anal about things and want to know that I’m fully developed before I jump into anything, I was a bit eager to jump into my doing that first cycle. I want to take a safe approach to it and make sure I’m going to be fine in later life.

I couldn’t get my little man up for around 3 weeks when I came off last time and that’s the reason I’ve been proper on edge about doing it again…s**t when the missus wants it and your little friend’s having non of it!

Let me know your opinions guys, thanks!

[Jangles1]

Most will say you're too young and have too much potential natural growth.

Why not wait, bulk up using your natural high test and use AAS properly when it will affect you better and you're more mature and knowledgeable (thats not a dig at all).

[GearHeaded]

if you had gyno flare up on your first cycle only running 300mg of test per week , then you are very estrogen sensitive and gyno prone . this is going to be a problem for you in any future cycles and is going to hinder your ability to put on size (cause you'll always have to run a lot of AI and even SERMS and keep your estrogen low, which will prevent growth to some degree).
a Test and Dbol cycle is not advisable for someone that is estrogen sensitive.

at 5'11" and only weighing 178 pounds after over 4 years of training , I definitely agree with you that your a natural 'ectomorph'. what I would advise is to dedicate a good 12-18 months of massing and trying to put on as much size as possible (fuck the clean eating or counting your macros , you need to eat and train like a monster).

If your like a lot of ectomorphs then your not getting a whole lot of hypertrophy out of training in the 9-15 rep range.. I would focus and design a training program around heavy compound lifts in the 3-6 rep range. stay away from isolation exercises, bicep curls aren't going to put 30 pounds on your frame , but using your biceps while bent over rowing 315 pounds will.
yes there will be a time and place to do some metabolite training and do some of these compounds lifts in the 15 rep range and really drive some blood into the muscles.. but a majority of your time should spent heavy and intense. you gotta give your body a reason to grow.


I would focus on these things for now , and during that whole time spend a good deal of it studying and researching AAS. That way when you go that route you'll definitely be prepared and ready and will also have a good base to start from.
and being your estrogen sensitive and gyno prone you'll want to research doing low testosterone cycles stacked with non-aromatizing anabolics

[Mtmlf1234]

if you had gyno flare up on your first cycle only running 300mg of test per week , then you are very estrogen sensitive and gyno prone . this is going to be a problem for you in any future cycles and is going to hinder your ability to put on size (cause you'll always have to run a lot of AI and even SERMS and keep your estrogen low, which will prevent growth to some degree).
a Test and Dbol cycle is not advisable for someone that is estrogen sensitive.

at 5'11" and only weighing 178 pounds after over 4 years of training , I definitely agree with you that your a natural 'ectomorph'. what I would advise is to dedicate a good 12-18 months of massing and trying to put on as much size as possible (fuck the clean eating or counting your macros , you need to eat and train like a monster).

If your like a lot of ectomorphs then your not getting a whole lot of hypertrophy out of training in the 9-15 rep range.. I would focus and design a training program around heavy compound lifts in the 3-6 rep range. stay away from isolation exercises, bicep curls aren't going to put 30 pounds on your frame , but using your biceps while bent over rowing 315 pounds will.
yes there will be a time and place to do some metabolite training and do some of these compounds lifts in the 15 rep range and really drive some blood into the muscles.. but a majority of your time should spent heavy and intense. you gotta give your body a reason to grow.


I would focus on these things for now , and during that whole time spend a good deal of it studying and researching AAS. That way when you go that route you'll definitely be prepared and ready and will also have a good base to start from.
and being your estrogen sensitive and gyno prone you'll want to research doing low testosterone cycles stacked with non-aromatizing anabolics

I always thought I would be as I had gyno going through puberty around age 14. What would suggest as a bulking cycle then with me being gyno prone?

I know it's not a fast process, but I feel as though as should be bigger than I am with all the training and dieting that I do and have been doing over the years.

My rep ranges usually 8-12 on some exercises I'll go as low as 6. My intensity is always high.

This is what I'm currently looking like...As you can see I have an alright amount of muscle but I just don't have the mass that I've been working my arse off to get!

[GearHeaded]

I always thought I would be as I had gyno going through puberty around age 14. What would suggest as a bulking cycle then with me being gyno prone?

well traditionally a 'base' for a bulking stack would consist of 500-1000mg of Test per week. Your not going to be able to do that , so I recommend modifying this 'base' with a filler compound like EQ . so to get to say 700mg for your base you would run only 200mg of Testosterone then add 500mg of EQ to this,, then you stack your anabolics with this Eq/test base.

EQ is nothing more then a 'clean' Testosterone . It works very much like Test but is 'clean' in that it does not aromatize nor convert to DHT near as much as test does . so you 'fill in' your test base with EQ instead of high dose test. you'll get very similar results to high dose test, but with little side effects and much much less estrogen.

Once you have your base established you then decide what anabolics to bulk with . Low aromatizing compounds are going to be best for you personally (though I usually recommend the opposite of this, I usually suggest guys bulk with highly aromatizing compounds so they get the added benefit of elevated estrogen to help put on size ,, but your gyno prone so you just can't do that).

Anabolics that I suggest adding to your test/eq base are
NPP or Deca (aromatizes to a small degree, will need caber or prami to keep prolactin down)
Masteron (does not convert to estrogen , has anti estrogen properties, yes you can bulk with masteron when its stacked with a nandrolone .. not great to bulk with if ran solo though)

those are the basics.. you can get a little more advanced and add things in like an injectable superdrol. or adding in long runs with T-bol to your base (not a great bulker at all but will help put lean quality tissue on over time).

[Jangles1]

Would NPP or DECCA not be too much for a first cycle GearHeaded !?

[GearHeaded]

Would NPP or DECCA not be too much for a first cycle GearHeaded !?

Yeah I don't recommend nandrolone for a first cycle .. you need to learn to control estrogen first and when you get good at that then you can play with 19nors and learn to control prolactin .

Also I'm not recommending the OP cycle steroids right now at all . my above post was for educational purposes showing how guys in general that are very estrogen sensitive can cycle gear and bulk

[kelkel]

If you do end up cycling there's nothing wrong with running low dose Nolva along with your AI. Nolva when on cycle isn't going to impact your IGF-1 level that much to notice.

Totally agree with Gearheaded that you need to F the clean eating and start pounding down the calories. Another thing I'd seriously consider is to train like a powerlifter for a while. If possible train with powerlifters which would be even better. You'll learn a ton, put on size, gain incredible strength in basic compound exercises and it will benefit you the rest of your training life. One of the best and most fun things I ever did when I was younger.

[songdog]

Would NPP or DECCA not be too much for a first cycle GearHeaded !?

Jangles you been told wat to run for a 1st cycle but if you keep asking different people that question you just might find one of the dummies who ran tren for a 1st cycle.We try to do things the safest way but it's up too the person wat they want to do.You don't need a lot of aas to get big you need a good diet.There are plenty of guys running big stacks and are not big at all quit worrying you need more than the 500mg test you will be fine.

[Mtmlf1234]

Thanks GearHeaded his helps a lot! (P.S how do you tag people?)

Never looked at EQ so I’ll have to research it. I’m put off by deca because of what I’ve heard about deca dick! (Read my first post)

[Mtmlf1234]

Totally agree with Gearheaded that you need to F the clean eating and start pounding down the calories. Another thing I'd seriously consider is to train like a powerlifter for a while. If possible train with powerlifters which would be even better. You'll learn a ton, put on size, gain incredible strength in basic compound exercises and it will benefit you the rest of your training life. One of the best and most fun things I ever did when I was younger.

I don’t understand why I would not eat clean and change to just getting as much food as possible down therefore adding a load of unnecessary body fat?

[GearHeaded]

I don’t understand why I would not eat clean and change to just getting as much food as possible down therefore adding a load of unnecessary body fat?

if your a true 'ectomorph' then your not going to add a whole bunch of body fat. If your training hard and heavy then your going to burn through a lot of calories, add to that you need your calories above maintenance to grow and suddenly your calorie demand is very high .. you know how hard it is to get 5000+ calories per day of chicken and broccoli ,, pretty tuff. thats why I suggest to not only eat clean (yes eat clean and make healthy choices but don't be afraid to eat fattier cuts of steak, whole chicken, not just the lean breast, etc..) .

dirtying the eating up a little bit just helps to get the calories in when you get tired of chicken and brocolli .. and if your training hard your not going to add too much fat, but you will give your body a reason to grow.

and for what its worth , the easiest part of body building is burning off body fat , the toughest part of body building is adding slabs off mass . you can always come back and easily cut some fat (getting shredded is easy , getting massive is not)